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Thomas Clow

Honey Producers Co-op Meetings Update

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7 hours ago, Adam Boot said:

 if you think 'exporting ( MPI standard )  multifloral Manuka to Australia where it’s blended with some Aussie leptospermum and packed as Manuka MGO whatever it is'.

what a waste of multi - pretty sure that's where nz dew and bush (e.g. kamahi) will end up. Same blending fraud as in NZ circa 2014...

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7 hours ago, tommy dave said:

what a waste of multi - pretty sure that's where nz dew and bush (e.g. kamahi) will end up. Same blending fraud as in NZ circa 2014...

 

Not much demand for multi right now so might as well send to Oz and make some real money rather than the play money on the table in NZ. 

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On ‎25‎/‎05‎/‎2019 at 5:46 PM, frazzledfozzle said:

No it won’t Australia can label their honey however they like.

Maybe all of us that produce multi floral Manuka should be shipping it to Oz and packing it there under a Manuka MGO 30 label. 

 

 

17 hours ago, Adam Boot said:

I honestly cannot believe we are even debating the merits of circumventing law or even avoiding the intentions of law. Is this really what the NZ honey industry is about? 

 

The NZ Beekeeper is not circumventing the law.  They sell a product related to their harvest dec and lab analysis.  It is not what is in the jar that is the prob, it is the label, and it would appear that it is the Australians who are putting the labels on jars. 

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Posted (edited)
37 minutes ago, Maggie James said:

it is the Australians who are putting the labels on jars. 

That's alright then. 

Edited by yesbut
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If an Australian packer came to me wanting to buy 20 ton of multi Manuka at a price well in excess of what I was offered in NZ would I sell it to him?  Damn right I would.  Why wouldn’t I??  Because I suspect he may be going to blend it with Jelly Bush??  If overseas consumers are becoming more aware of what they are buying it will be the Aussie packer that gets burnt not me and their reputation that is tarnished.  NZ can then point to our stringent export standards and say that’s why you should buy genuine Manuka from us.  

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Posted (edited)
13 hours ago, frazzledfozzle said:

 

Not much demand for multi right now so might as well send to Oz and make some real money rather than the play money on the table in NZ. 

even better, sell it to oz and let them do the fraud thing, then once the funds have cleared issue some media advisories about the fraud being committed by aussie honey producers. Two birds, one stone.

 

only downside, it's probably nz scum corporates doing the dirty fraud in oz, and they might read here and think better of that particular type of fraud, and instead stick to the fraud they're already engaging in

 

Edited by tommy dave

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One of the biggest shaftings is our 'must have' honey judge happily judged at the Australian Bee Conference last year, awarding prizes to jelly-bush honey labelled as manuka, and called manuka as a class to be judged. Time I would think for a new judge of any NZ honey competition.

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38 minutes ago, Sailabee said:

One of the biggest shaftings is our 'must have' honey judge happily judged at the Australian Bee Conference last year, awarding prizes to jelly-bush honey labelled as manuka, and called manuka as a class to be judged. Time I would think for a new judge of any NZ honey competition.

Oh .... the story I got was that the honey judge was'nt prepared to award any prize to Aussie manuka , citing they tasted too much like Gum .  But there you go , we all know about second hand news.

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1 hour ago, jamesc said:

Oh .... the story I got was that the honey judge was'nt prepared to award any prize to Aussie manuka , citing they tasted too much like Gum .  But there you go , we all know about second hand news.

I can not see how any honey in australia will not taste like gum ..

Even the rainforests are ribbons and there is bound to be a gum tree flowering nearby .

The honey flows from them are so enormous no bee would ignore it .

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12 hours ago, kaihoka said:

I can not see how any honey in australia will not taste like gum ..

Even the rainforests are ribbons and there is bound to be a gum tree flowering nearby .

The honey flows from them are so enormous no bee would ignore it .

That's why they need to blend it with NZ honey, win win. 

14 hours ago, jamesc said:

Oh .... the story I got was that the honey judge was'nt prepared to award any prize to Aussie manuka , citing they tasted too much like Gum .  But there you go , we all know about second hand news.

I'm pretty on with manuka tasting, my batches A, B, C and D have been on point the last few seasons highest grade mono to manuka multiflora. 

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Posted (edited)
16 hours ago, Sailabee said:

One of the biggest shaftings is our 'must have' honey judge happily judged at the Australian Bee Conference last year, awarding prizes to jelly-bush honey labelled as manuka, and called manuka as a class to be judged. Time I would think for a new judge of any NZ honey competition.

Thats a stupid statement sailabee with no basis except to be petty, I was at that conference and had chatted to Maureen about that.

This was not a NZ vers AUS is it or is it not Manuka tasting. It was here is a class of honey in AUS we call manuka ,tell us which one is the best. She did say that this is not at all like NZ Manuka in flavour or character and would not pass as manuka.

I'm in Cairns now and yesterday I was in a shop selling AUS Manuka the same price as NZ Manuka (now we both know the difference) but at this stage there is no trademark stopping AUS calling their honey Manuka so yes they have a class of honey called manuka for taste testing at their conference.

Maureen is a world class honey judge and for you to smear her reputation is not on, which she deserves an apology from you and the administrators for letting you post it.

 

Edited by Dennis Crowley
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8 hours ago, Dennis Crowley said:

 

Maureen is a world class honey judge and for you to smear her reputation is not on, which she deserves an apology from you and the administrators for letting you post it.

 

 

It seems to me that @Sailabee posted the truth.

You have confirmed that Maureen did  judge Australian Jellybush honey that was labeled as Manuka so in my view nothing that was said in that post was a smear on her reputation by  @Sailabee or the administrators it was a statement of truth.

 

Great marketing angle for the winner though being able to state their “Manuka” Won first prize as judged by New Zealand’s top honey judge :( 

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8 hours ago, Dennis Crowley said:

Thats a stupid statement sailabee with no basis except to be petty, I was at that conference and had chatted to Maureen about that.

This was not a NZ vers AUS is it or is it not Manuka tasting. It was here is a class of honey in AUS we call manuka ,tell us which one is the best. She did say that this is not at all like NZ Manuka in flavour or character and would not pass as manuka.

I'm in Cairns now and yesterday I was in a shop selling AUS Manuka the same price as NZ Manuka (now we both know the difference) but at this stage there is no trademark stopping AUS calling their honey Manuka so yes they have a class of honey called manuka for taste testing at their conference.

Maureen is a world class honey judge and for you to smear her reputation is not on, which she deserves an apology from you and the administrators for letting you post it.

 

 

Thank You Dennis, having a board member of ApiNZ condoning the state of affairs in such a public domain is gold! If I am censured by the administrators for posting the truth, I'm so good with that - we all have our own definition of integrity, and while a fourth generation kiwi, I'm still Irish enough to see that as far more important to me.

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On 28/05/2019 at 6:49 AM, Sailabee said:

One of the biggest shaftings is our 'must have' honey judge happily judged at the Australian Bee Conference last year, awarding prizes to jelly-bush honey labelled as manuka, and called manuka as a class to be judged. Time I would think for a new judge of any NZ honey competition.

 

9 hours ago, Dennis Crowley said:

Thats a stupid statement sailabee with no basis except to be petty, I was at that conference and had chatted to Maureen about that.

This was not a NZ vers AUS is it or is it not Manuka tasting. It was here is a class of honey in AUS we call manuka ,tell us which one is the best. She did say that this is not at all like NZ Manuka in flavour or character and would not pass as manuka.

I'm in Cairns now and yesterday I was in a shop selling AUS Manuka the same price as NZ Manuka (now we both know the difference) but at this stage there is no trademark stopping AUS calling their honey Manuka so yes they have a class of honey called manuka for taste testing at their conference.

Maureen is a world class honey judge and for you to smear her reputation is not on, which she deserves an apology from you and the administrators for letting you post it.

 

@Dennis Crowley I don't see @Sailabee as any deformation. She went out of her way to not name Maureen.

You are the one who put her name into this forum and then confirmed that what Sailabee said was in fact truthful.

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On 28/05/2019 at 4:49 AM, Sailabee said:

One of the biggest shaftings is our 'must have' honey judge happily judged at the Australian Bee Conference last year, awarding prizes to jelly-bush honey labelled as manuka, and called manuka as a class to be judged. Time I would think for a new judge of any NZ honey competition.

Trevour, sailabee didnt need to name her, as he used the word "our " honey judge, so we all know who that is, also she was the only NZ judge to be asked to judge at the conference, so easy for anyone to find out.

As for smearing her reputation, using "must have " in quotations is a dig at her, "one of the biggest shaftings of the" , and "time i think for a new judge" is totally smearing her reputation, and you administrators havn't called sailabee out for that, so that must show a bit of biased on you administrators part, this is a public forum.

Maureen has done more than most to spread the unique flavours and characteristics of NZ honey around the world. What have you Trevour, Sialabee, Frazz done?

 

The right to use the word Manuka is still before the courts and yes we all, along with Maureen, hope that we will succeed in that fight, but as of now that is not the case and wether we like it or not Aus has manuka as a name for one of their classes of honey. And as a world renown honey judge Maureen knows that and did/does her job with her head held high.

So instead of you lot keeping your heads in the sand or some other hole, stop trying to smear a very well deserved reputation of our only world renown honey judge which we should be very proud off, and work together to fight the naming rights to manuka. 

We kiwis are not slow to change the name of things to suit us, NZ kiwifruit is only a Chinese goosberry. Stop being small minded.

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Anyways..........😳.  

 

 

 

 

Back on topic.

 

Bruce Clow has sent an email today detailing that the lawyers involved have advised not to go to the government asking for money because they probably won't give any out. So, that's off the table for now .

 

Apparently also , there is a lot of negativity on this forum . There a bit yep, but on the whole , I don't think so. There  are a lot of ideas and discussion for and against , which isn't negativity , and the odd dig at individuals , which is, but is largely in check. 

 

@Adam Boot, you are an ideas man that sees this whole scenario from a different angle .

 

What direction would you take from here ?

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48 minutes ago, M4tt said:

Anyways..........😳.  

 

 

 

 

Back on topic.

 

Bruce Clow has sent an email today detailing that the lawyers involved have advised not to go to the government asking for money because they probably won't give any out. So, that's off the table for now .

 

Apparently also , there is a lot of negativity on this forum . There a bit yep, but on the whole , I don't think so. There  are a lot of ideas and discussion for and against , which isn't negativity , and the odd dig at individuals , which is, but is largely in check. 

 

@Adam Boot, you are an ideas man that sees this whole scenario from a different angle .

 

What direction would you take from here ?

So it sounds like the co-op idea isn’t going to fly??  We’ve had one before which failed so why did anyone think it would work now?  I’m genuinely interested to know what people think an acceptable bulk price for their multifloral honey is (non Manuka types) and how they arrive at that figure - taking into consideration the current world honey price?  We all know previous years prices were artificially high because of the Manuka blending situation so has that set unrealistic expectations in our minds going forward??  How would a co-op achieve higher prices for the beekeeper than any of the existing packers - again considering world prices?  As with all products it’s only worth what someone is prepared to pay for it.

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1 hour ago, Dennis Crowley said:

What have you Trevour, Sialabee, Frazz done?

 

What any of us have done or not done is irrelevant.

 

Im not too bothered one way or another but I stand by my post defending @Sailabeeright to say what they think of any particular situation that actually occurred.

if it was untrue and the judging didn’t take place then that’s different ball game. 

 

 

 

 

 

5 minutes ago, Ted said:

  I’m genuinely interested to know what people think an acceptable bulk price for their multifloral honey is (non Manuka types) and how they arrive at that figure - taking into consideration the current world honey price?  We all know previous years prices were artificially high because of the Manuka blending situation so has that set unrealistic expectations in our minds going forward?? 

 

I would also be interested in what beekeepers think their non Manuka honey is worth I would also like to know what mono and multi is selling for and how many still have multi and mono that’s not selling.

yes I do believe prices over the past few years has raised expectations I think we all knew things would change with a standard but not the huge changes happening right now.

whether it’s all to do with the standard or whether there’s other things going on in the background I don’t know. 

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2 hours ago, Dennis Crowley said:

Trevour, sailabee didnt need to name her, as he used the word "our " honey judge, so we all know who that is, also she was the only NZ judge to be asked to judge at the conference, so easy for anyone to find out.

As for smearing her reputation, using "must have " in quotations is a dig at her, "one of the biggest shaftings of the" , and "time i think for a new judge" is totally smearing her reputation, and you administrators havn't called sailabee out for that, so that must show a bit of biased on you administrators part, this is a public forum.

Maureen has done more than most to spread the unique flavours and characteristics of NZ honey around the world. What have you Trevour, Sialabee, Frazz done?

 

The right to use the word Manuka is still before the courts and yes we all, along with Maureen, hope that we will succeed in that fight, but as of now that is not the case and wether we like it or not Aus has manuka as a name for one of their classes of honey. And as a world renown honey judge Maureen knows that and did/does her job with her head held high.

So instead of you lot keeping your heads in the sand or some other hole, stop trying to smear a very well deserved reputation of our only world renown honey judge which we should be very proud off, and work together to fight the naming rights to manuka. 

We kiwis are not slow to change the name of things to suit us, NZ kiwifruit is only a Chinese goosberry. Stop being small minded.

I cannot be bothered with replying to your personal attacks so I will leave that new low to you @Dennis Crowley

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1 hour ago, M4tt said:

Anyways..........😳.  

 

 

 

 

Back on topic.

 

Bruce Clow has sent an email today detailing that the lawyers involved have advised not to go to the government asking for money because they probably won't give any out. So, that's off the table for now .

 

Apparently also , there is a lot of negativity on this forum . There a bit yep, but on the whole , I don't think so. There  are a lot of ideas and discussion for and against , which isn't negativity , and the odd dig at individuals , which is, but is largely in check. 

 

@Adam Boot, you are an ideas man that sees this whole scenario from a different angle .

 

What direction would you take from here ?

 

@M4tt, that is taken out of context and not what was said, Bruce said in summary, going to the government without a monetary backing was suggested not a good move, it is like asking for a mortgage without putting in a deposit.

 

 

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Im saying  the same as you. 

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39 minutes ago, Ted said:

So it sounds like the co-op idea isn’t going to fly??  We’ve had one before which failed so why did anyone think it would work now?  I’m genuinely interested to know what people think an acceptable bulk price for their multifloral honey is (non Manuka types) and how they arrive at that figure - taking into consideration the current world honey price?  We all know previous years prices were artificially high because of the Manuka blending situation so has that set unrealistic expectations in our minds going forward??  How would a co-op achieve higher prices for the beekeeper than any of the existing packers - again considering world prices?  As with all products it’s only worth what someone is prepared to pay for it.

 

Come on @Ted, we haven't even started the co-op yet, the original co-op failed yes, but that was then and this is now. We are not them and they are not us. Does the co-op have pros, yes, does it have cons, absolutely. I don't see anyone else doing anything to help the industry, squeezing you guys for sales sure ain't gonna do anything for us and isn't going to help the industry. The solution is to help you put more money in your pocket so everyone improves here and the little guys are not pummeled out of a great industry and lifestyle.

7 minutes ago, M4tt said:

Im saying  the same as you. 

Going to the government with a small monetary backing looks more appealing to them than not, is what I am trying to get too, so it is still on the table

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Posted (edited)

Ok fair call . 

 

Why involve the government ? 

My understanding is they fund innovation/new ideas that increase productivity 

 

In other words , they ‘might’ look at funding someone’s clever idea that involved sustainability , or a new innovation involving honey . And that’s a big ‘might ‘.

 

 

 

Edited by M4tt

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6 minutes ago, Thomas Clow said:

 

Come on @Ted, we haven't even started the co-op yet, the original co-op failed yes, but that was then and this is now. We are not them and they are not us. Does the co-op have pros, yes, does it have cons, absolutely. I don't see anyone else doing anything to help the industry, squeezing you guys for sales sure ain't gonna do anything for us and isn't going to help the industry. The solution is to help you put more money in your pocket so everyone improves here and the little guys are not pummeled out of a great industry and lifestyle.

Going to the government with a small monetary backing looks more appealing to them than not, is what I am trying to get too, so it is still on the table

@Thomas Clow, good luck to you - I genuinely hope it succeeds and admire your motivation.  What I can’t get my head around is how a co-op is going to “put more money in beekeepers pockets”.  I don’t believe beekeepers are being deliberately squeezed by packers - it’s just the reality of a non Manuka blending industry that we now face.  International honey prices will dictate what our non Manuka honey is worth and I fail to see how a co-op will change that.

8 minutes ago, M4tt said:

Ok fair call . 

 

Why involve the government ? 

My understanding is they fund innovation/new ideas that increase productivity 

 

In other words , they ‘might’ look at funding someone’s clever idea that involved sustainability , or a new innovation involving honey . And that’s a big ‘might ‘.

 

 

 

What clever idea or innovation??

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I should hope the government funds projects that help people, as well as brings economic wellbeing to the economy, which is what they would be doing in this instance. The way I see it is the industry is suffering and funding the co op to help get your honey to market to bring money back into New Zealanders hands is a huge win, especially for a primary industry in which the government is not held in high regard in farmers eyes.

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