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Honey Producers Co-op Meetings Update


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2 hours ago, Adam Boot said:

Why is testing insane? Do we want to be leaders on a world stage with best practice and best product or followers playing catch up? 

here is a question - if someone was to get a decent test/result for a small volume (say, a couple of drums) that they're giving away to mates this year from a couple of sites with scaling available (genuinely, know all landowners in a five kilometre radius) - do you think there would be demand next year for a few tonne?

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Hi All,   I have observed this discussion in full over many weeks and thought it might be a good time to add some of what I know and the views of a different packer/marketer.   Ma

There is no problem selling honey at the moment.  There is a problem with the price.    Before the manuka bubble, the one where people were selling all honey as manuka and frantically stockp

Not sure where Gino worked, but I think  in most places, best commercial practice is to dust across the top bars with an icing sugar/oxytetracycline(OTC) mix every time you go into the hive before the

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On 24/05/2019 at 8:31 AM, Adam Boot said:

I think the pinch is across the industry to greater or lesser extents. The Manuka producers do not only produce Manuka and they are not guaranteed to always produce mono and or low c4. 

For most the percentage of Multi they produce will have increased. The value of the grades varies dramatically. 

If you can guarantee production on Mono then you are definitely doing ok. Anything outside of this is taking now has a reduced value. 

 

I also believe that there will be a tightening of rules around Multi Floral labelling over the next 12 months and this will nock Multi back again. Many countries are waking up to the fact that the way some brands label (legally allowed) is tantamount to misrepresentation of ingredients. 

So maybe that will sort out YesButts Australian MGO 30 manuka ....

Edited by jamesc
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24 minutes ago, jamesc said:

So maybe that will sort out YesButts Australian MGO 30 manuka ....

 

No it won’t Australia can label their honey however they like.

Maybe all of us that produce multi floral Manuka should be shipping it to Oz and packing it there under a Manuka MGO 30 label. 

 

now theres a plan :) 

 

 

Edited by frazzledfozzle
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54 minutes ago, tommy dave said:

here is a question - if someone was to get a decent test/result for a small volume (say, a couple of drums) that they're giving away to mates this year from a couple of sites with scaling available (genuinely, know all landowners in a five kilometre radius) - do you think there would be demand next year for a few tonne?

Unquestionably we would be very interested

24 minutes ago, frazzledfozzle said:

 

No it won’t Australia can label their honey however they like.

Maybe all of us that produce multi floral Manuka should be shipping it to Oz and packing it there under a Manuka MGO 30 label. 

 

now theres a plan :) 

 

 

Go for it. Take the short term cash if that is what you feel is right? 

24 minutes ago, jamesc said:

It's happening Girl .... I'll say no more.

Of course it is happening and everyone knows who is involved. Will it pay off for them in the long run? I doubt. It is more likely to negatively reflect on their business in the long run. 

Reputable, ethical, professional companies do not do this. 

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Short term cash is good .... it keeps the wheels turning . I had a lady come to the shop today ..... she had 400 bucks cash  to buy honey and was quite shocked when I filled her jars for 24 bucks. I think I screwed up there somewhere ! What ever ,it was  a  stunningly beautifull day .... and that's what counts .... right ?

8 minutes ago, Adam Boot said:

Unquestionably we would be very interested

Go for it. Take the short term cash if that is what you feel is right? 

Of course it is happening and everyone knows who is involved. Will it pay off for them in the long run? I doubt. It is more likely to negatively reflect on their business in the long run. 

Reputable, ethical, professional companies do not do this. 

Hmmmm ...... it's a big shark pool out there Adam ..... and rule No 1 is to never trust some one  who say's 'Trust Me'. 

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5 minutes ago, jamesc said:

 I had a lady come to the shop today ..... she had 400 bucks cash  to buy honey and was quite shocked when I filled her jars for 24 bucks. I think I screwed up there somewhere !

anytime you sell for above cost of production to someone who can talk and is smiling about the trad = not the worst screw-up in the world

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4 minutes ago, tommy dave said:

anytime you sell for above cost of production to someone who can talk and is smiling about the trad = not the worst screw-up in the world

Exactly ..... she bought dew at $12/kg out of the 'Bulk tank' .   Almost three times  the  industry offered price.   It was a great day,  I is talking to the Doctor again. Happy days for us hand to mouth operators !!

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I spent the evening with some smart folk learning about Co Ops
Key word is education.
There are some splendid examples out there also, Tatua is a shining light https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tatua_Dairy_Company

Its important to understand that there are people in any commodity supply chain who have a vested interest to undermine co operatives so this means that interested parties need to become educated in the workings of a Co op, fortunately they are simple in structure.
Loyalty is paramount as is one member one vote.

   
 

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17 hours ago, frazzledfozzle said:

 

No it won’t Australia can label their honey however they like.

Maybe all of us that produce multi floral Manuka should be shipping it to Oz and packing it there under a Manuka MGO 30 label. 

 

now theres a plan :) 

 

 

And you really think this is ethical and honest? - Circumventing NZ law through a loop hole may be profitable but also says a lot about an organisation's moral compass. Loop holes get closed and dodgy reputations are hard to loose once gained.

13 hours ago, Philbee said:

I spent the evening with some smart folk learning about Co Ops
Key word is education.
There are some splendid examples out there also, Tatua is a shining light https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tatua_Dairy_Company

Its important to understand that there are people in any commodity supply chain who have a vested interest to undermine co operatives so this means that interested parties need to become educated in the workings of a Co op, fortunately they are simple in structure.
Loyalty is paramount as is one member one vote.

   
 

One member one vote sounds great. What happens when the company bringing along 50,000 hives wants a little more say than those with 5000 hives?

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8 minutes ago, Adam Boot said:

 

One member one vote sounds great. What happens when the company bringing along 50,000 hives wants a little more say than those with 5000 hives?

I guess the will either accept one member one vote or go elswhere

 

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41 minutes ago, Adam Boot said:

And you really think this is ethical and honest? - Circumventing NZ law through a loop hole may be profitable but also says a lot about an organisation's moral compass. Loop holes get closed and dodgy reputations are hard to loose once gained.

One member one vote sounds great. What happens when the company bringing along 50,000 hives wants a little more say than those with 5000 hives?

Study co ops and you will find out.

The importance of resisting proportional representation in co -ops was one of the points that these very experienced center right businessmen stressed.
The point of a co op is the group collectively benefit from the pooled input of all involved.

If you have 50000 Hives then you are going to enjoy increased income and security for those 50000 hives.
If this doesn't work for that individual then they have the option of leaving the co op which in itself could influence the vote of smaller stake holders, so there is always power in size anyway.
 

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1 minute ago, frazzledfozzle said:

 

I would suggest that if a company running 50,000 hives doesn’t have its own market sorted a co-ops unlikely to be any help. 

You are probably correct. Therefore we are back to the equation of how the Co Op increases the market price paid for honey. While the company with 50,000 hives sits outside of the Co Op, who determines market price? Who has competitive freedom? 

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48 minutes ago, Adam Boot said:

And you really think this is ethical and honest? - Circumventing NZ law through a loop hole may be profitable but also says a lot about an organisation's moral compass. Loop holes get closed and dodgy reputations are hard to loose once gained.

One member one vote sounds great. What happens when the company bringing along 50,000 hives wants a little more say than those with 5000 hives?

 

NZ law that has only just been made and is not fit for purpose ?

Ethical and honest according to whose rule book ?

 

I guess you could be “ethical and honest” and go bankrupt.

Being ethical and honest is a whole lot more than what goes on a label.

 

 

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2 minutes ago, Philbee said:

Study co ops and you will find out.

The importance of resisting proportional representation in co -ops was one of the points that these very experienced center right businessmen stressed.
The point of a co op is the group collectively benefit from the pooled input of all involved.

If you have 50000 Hives then you are going to enjoy increased income and security for those 50000 hives.
If this doesn't work for that individual then they have the option of leaving the co op which in itself could influence the vote of smaller stake holders, so there is always power in size anyway.
 

I totally understand the principle. 

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One area where a Co-op could benefit the industry.

Lets say there is a Honey stockpile out there currently 

This stockpile could include stakeholders with 100 tonnes in the shed

It may be that one or more of these 100 tonne Beeks is much better at making Honey than making business friends and this type of Beekeeper may currently be seeing Honey from this season moving to market while his 2 year old Honey sits in the shed.
Its possible that his 100 tonne of Honey stays wanted in the shed for multiple years while 1000 tonnes  of current seasons Honey Moves.
This Beekeeper is out of the loop and would benefit greatly from a co-operative approach.

So Price is just one aspect of the business, market access is another.

 

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2 hours ago, frazzledfozzle said:

 

NZ law that has only just been made and is not fit for purpose ?

Ethical and honest according to whose rule book ?

 

I guess you could be “ethical and honest” and go bankrupt.

Being ethical and honest is a whole lot more than what goes on a label.

 

 

I honestly cannot believe we are even debating the merits of circumventing law or even avoiding the intentions of law. Is this really what the NZ honey industry is about? 

On one hand you want premium price for NZ honey and on the other hand you are debating ethics and honesty. Why not use ethics and honesty as a cornerstone to your marketing that enhances the value of NZ honey. 

What is it with this race to the bottom and lowest common denominator? 

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32 minutes ago, frazzledfozzle said:

It’s not circumventing the law, it’s exporting ( MPI standard )  multifloral Manuka to Australia where it’s blended with some Aussie leptospermum and packed as Manuka MGO whatever it is. 

Fully compliant 

I also said 'or even avoiding the intentions of law'. Look - I am not arguing with you. if you think 'exporting ( MPI standard )  multifloral Manuka to Australia where it’s blended with some Aussie leptospermum and packed as Manuka MGO whatever it is'. Is a good move, fair on the consumer, morally or ethically right then you go for it. Fill your boots. 

 

And we complain when the word Cowboy is used!

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