Jump to content

Honey Producers Co-op Meetings Update


Recommended Posts

9 minutes ago, Adam Boot said:

I do not make the Chinese import rules

China are starting a new "Long march" which is significant.
My crystal ball would tend to indicate that China's market access for NZ could become more favorable but that will be offset by the effects of the march.
Xi has openly announced that China needs to brace itself for extreme hardship ahead, the Long March is a metaphor for hardship in that it describes the Chinese Communist Party's Red Army's desperate escape north in the 30's when pursued by Nationalist troops.

Possibly only 10% of the Red Army Survived.

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Replies 472
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters In This Topic

Top Posters In This Topic

Popular Posts

Hi All,   I have observed this discussion in full over many weeks and thought it might be a good time to add some of what I know and the views of a different packer/marketer.   Ma

There is no problem selling honey at the moment.  There is a problem with the price.    Before the manuka bubble, the one where people were selling all honey as manuka and frantically stockp

Not sure where Gino worked, but I think  in most places, best commercial practice is to dust across the top bars with an icing sugar/oxytetracycline(OTC) mix every time you go into the hive before the

Posted Images

@Adam Boot I don’t think it would make a great label to have to have the largest word Multi or multi-floral whether it’s Manuka or not. 

As manuka is being bought for its health benefits particularly in China surely a 5+ multi-floral Manuka is better than a 3+ mono.

 

 

Edited by frazzledfozzle
Link to post
Share on other sites
27 minutes ago, frazzledfozzle said:

@Adam Boot I don’t think it would make a great label to have to have the largest word Multi or multi-floral whether it’s Manuka or not. 

As manuka is being bought for its health benefits particularly in China surely a 5+ multi-floral Manuka is better than a 3+ mono.

 

 

I think we are talking at cross purposes here. You can't sell UMF 5+ Multi floral in China or any where else. UMF is only applied to Mono Floral. I am specifically talking about MGO 30, 40, 50, 70, 83 Multifloral being Marketed as Manuka Honey. If the largest ingredient is not Manuka Honey how can the Label have Manuka as the most prominent feature? This is particularly important when the ingredient table on the label is not % based as per other food products. Do you not think that this sort of practise will starts to raise questions? 

 

Can you hand on heart tell me that MGO 30, 40, 50 has a Manuka Honey content over 50% or is even the majority ingredient? 

 

When you combine this with some marketing campaigns in the UK claiming that the only difference between Multi and Mono is the distance that the bee has to fly, do you not think this may come back and bite us on the arse? 

 

Link to post
Share on other sites
54 minutes ago, Adam Boot said:

I think we are talking at cross purposes here. You can't sell UMF 5+ Multi floral in China or any where else. UMF is only applied to Mono Floral. I am specifically talking about MGO 30, 40, 50, 70, 83 Multifloral being Marketed as Manuka Honey. If the largest ingredient is not Manuka Honey how can the Label have Manuka as the most prominent feature? This is particularly important when the ingredient table on the label is not % based as per other food products. Do you not think that this sort of practise will starts to raise questions? 

 

Can you hand on heart tell me that MGO 30, 40, 50 has a Manuka Honey content over 50% or is even the majority ingredient? 

 

 

 

Can multi Manuka be marketed as MGO 30 then rather than UMF ?

can you label it as Manuka with Kamahi or Kamahi with Manuka?

 

not sure about biting us in the arse Australia don’t seem to be struggling to sell their faux Manuka in fact their industry is booming off the back of our bust. 

 

Strangely  enough it seems nobody is taking the time to write articles about how fake it is or how they can label theirs as active, bio active or whatever and can even include peroxide activity in the equation.

All those things that we were initially told we couldn’t do because it doesn’t comply with the Australia NZ food labelling laws.

 

  • Agree 2
Link to post
Share on other sites
4 hours ago, Ali said:

@Adam Boot, is it a NZ outfit marketing in this fashion?

NZ UK joint combination

3 hours ago, frazzledfozzle said:

 

Can multi Manuka be marketed as MGO 30 then rather than UMF ?

can you label it as Manuka with Kamahi or Kamahi with Manuka?

 

not sure about biting us in the arse Australia don’t seem to be struggling to sell their faux Manuka in fact their industry is booming off the back of our bust. 

 

Strangely  enough it seems nobody is taking the time to write articles about how fake it is or how they can label theirs as active, bio active or whatever and can even include peroxide activity in the equation.

All those things that we were initially told we couldn’t do because it doesn’t comply with the Australia NZ food labelling laws.

 

You can label anything with the MGO content as long as you have the tests to support the MGO number. 

You could label it Manuka Blend, Manuka Multi floral, Manuka and Kamahi or Kamahi and Manuka regardless of which was the largest proportion. It could be just 10% Manuka and the rest many different floral verities and it could still be called Manuka Multi floral or Manuka Blend. 

 

Who said Australia is booming? It is a Thorn in the side. It adds confusion in the market and it raises questions over price. The AUS industry is a fraction of our size and sells at a considerably lower price. What we have learned so far is that the genuine Manuka consumer does not buy it and certainly would not buy it twice. It doesn't taste, look or smell like Manuka honey. This is the big issue. As new markets are emerging and growing the fact that there is a false product carrying the Manuka name is dangerous and concerning. 

 

Who said we had a bust? We can sell as much Mono Manuka as is produced. If all the correct markers are in place, demand still outstrips supply. Prices for genuine Manuka Honey have not dropped back they have just hit a consumer ceiling. 

 

 

  • Good Info 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Adam Boot said:

What we have learned so far is that the genuine Manuka consumer does not buy it and certainly would not buy it twice. It doesn't taste, look or smell like Manuka honey. 

Well I've succumbed to temptation and tasted the stuff I've got. Initially it smells and tastes like our manuka, but there's a lingering slightly "offish" taste that i don't find too pleasant. It's going into the fire tonight.

  • Like 1
  • Thanks 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Adam Boot said:

Who said we had a bust? We can sell as much Mono Manuka as is produced. If all the correct markers are in place, demand still outstrips supply. Prices for genuine Manuka Honey have not dropped back they have just hit a consumer ceiling

 

You keep saying demand outstrips supply for mono Manuka.

obviously this isn’t entirely true or there wouldn’t be beekeepers sitting on mono with no demand and no offers on the table. 

  • Like 2
Link to post
Share on other sites

The standard we have allows mediocre honey to be called manuka and almost pure manuka to be called non-manuka. Marketers may be happy with this but beekeepers are being hurt by what has proved to be very bad science.

As far as  demand for manuka I am out of the loop this year as I didn't produce any (apart from some 10+ non-manuka) but there do seem to be quite a few people sitting on quite large stockpiles which considering  the relatively poor seasons the last few years makes you wonder just how well it selling.

  • Like 4
Link to post
Share on other sites
14 hours ago, Adam Boot said:

Who said Australia is booming

 

Two examples of beekeeping in Australia booming off the back of faux Manuka honey that I know of personally are NZ beekeeping companies starting up in Australia ( not talking Comvita or any of the major players ) 

 

My surgeon was talking about his brother in law who was getting into commercial beekeeping and producing faux Manuka honey.

He said he had no experience with bees but was doing very nicely. 

That is exactly what happened here in NZ , non beekeepers getting into producing honey. Difference is the Australian govt is helping their industry while ours has decimated it. 

 

The destruction of the industry in NZ affects far more than just the owner of the beekeeping company.

Huge job losses industry wide, equipment suppliers selling stuff all, Queen producers, hive and Nuc sellers all affected. Freight companies, packaging companies, landowner payments and a myriad of other losers in this game.

 

How many families have been impacted by job losses I hate to think but it’s going to be in the thousands I reckon.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Yes lay offs are definitely happening in nz. And some (silly people)like myself are charging on with a knew motto and a knew budget , new game plan , fingers and toes crossed that we survive this one.

When I first started beekeeping my father told me at any givin time you need to be able to go 2 seasons without a crop.😖 . Of course that was 25 years ago .

Every body will be hurting . Beekeepers remember what this season has taught us LOYALTIES mean nothing although we have hit a swing at the moment you are in control of the roundabout...

 

We produce a quality food product in a starving world the roundabout will come.

  • Like 1
  • Agree 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
14 minutes ago, Nuc_man said:

 When I first started beekeeping my father told me at any givin time you need to be able to go 2 seasons without a crop.😖

Was there always a market for honey then .?

So even if you had two years of no product you knew as soon as you had a crop you could sell it .

Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, kaihoka said:

Was there always a market for honey then .?

So even if you had two years of no product you knew as soon as you had a crop you could sell it .

 

Yes you could always sell your honey.

when we first started beekeeping pollination was where the stable money was at and is what paid the bills.

My dad would finish pollination and he would take his hives to the honeydew and that was his season done. He didn’t harvest any honey apart from some for family and friends. He made a very good living entirely off pollination he had no staff and if I remember right ran around 600 hives.

 

When we started we worked for my dad and then for my brother .

we started small with a few pollination contracts and some honey sites my brother sorted for us. We both worked during the winters .

We increased by splitting and did it slowly, it wasn’t until the Manuka boom that we could afford to go out on our own and to not work other jobs to make ends meet.

Honey prices for us were around $2.75kg.

I remember clearly the day my brother was paid $9kg for his Manuka honey we were all amazed at getting such a good price.

For all the crap that Manuka has bought to our industry I will always be forever thankful to the packers who bought and blended our honey into Manuka honey because it has given our whole family a chance at a better life .

 

So the bubble has burst and it totally sucks because it’s amazing how quickly you get used to high prices and 3 months off over winter.

But it’s just back to the reality of beekeeping in NZ the difference is there’s now 2 tiers of honey producer those that make money off Manuka and those that don’t off Bush/ multi .

Theres options of chasing Manuka blocks, working winters , downsizing by whatever means you can and other ways to make a living but it won’t be a living we have become accustomed too but is still probably better than a lot of people on minimum wage get by on.

 

 

 

Edited by frazzledfozzle
  • Thanks 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
15 hours ago, frazzledfozzle said:

 

You keep saying demand outstrips supply for mono Manuka.

obviously this isn’t entirely true or there wouldn’t be beekeepers sitting on mono with no demand and no offers on the table. 

I also said that it had met a price ceiling. Mono offered at excessive prices gets a firm no. It can't keep going up. There is also only so much we can sit on and store while it reaches potential. 

3 hours ago, frazzledfozzle said:

 

Two examples of beekeeping in Australia booming off the back of faux Manuka honey that I know of personally are NZ beekeeping companies starting up in Australia ( not talking Comvita or any of the major players ) 

 

My surgeon was talking about his brother in law who was getting into commercial beekeeping and producing faux Manuka honey.

He said he had no experience with bees but was doing very nicely. 

That is exactly what happened here in NZ , non beekeepers getting into producing honey. Difference is the Australian govt is helping their industry while ours has decimated it. 

 

The destruction of the industry in NZ affects far more than just the owner of the beekeeping company.

Huge job losses industry wide, equipment suppliers selling stuff all, Queen producers, hive and Nuc sellers all affected. Freight companies, packaging companies, landowner payments and a myriad of other losers in this game.

 

How many families have been impacted by job losses I hate to think but it’s going to be in the thousands I reckon.

That is a big call. Blaming any government for improving standards does not sit well with me. We cannot live in a bubble immune from the rest of the world. Without the MPI Manuka Honey Definition there would have been a point when credibility would have faltered and price collapse would result. The current situation is painful for everyone. 

Your example from Australia is classic and similar to NZ of the past. In NZ you did not need government help as the money from Manuka and banks fuelled anything required. Now we have our current situation. 

 

Move Australia forward. Corporate investment with no industry knowledge or understanding and AMHA close the right to use the Leptosperman test and NZ wins the Trade mark battle. 

Overnight any value accumulated is gone. In NZ inflated unsustainable non Manuka prices were enjoyed by many and encouraged many more. Rules change (for the right reasons) and the industry painfully corrects itself but secures a long term future. 

 

Why does there have to be someone to blame all the time? People chased quick cash and did not do due diligence. 

Link to post
Share on other sites
20 minutes ago, Adam Boot said:

I also said that it had met a price ceiling. Mono offered at excessive prices gets a firm no. It can't keep going up. There is also only so much we can sit on and store while it reaches potential. 

 

Im talking no offers Adam and no interest never mind

price expectations.

@Adam Boot If MPI change the manuka standard in the future then it's obvious to me they got it wrong in the first place and will be taking the blame for all those companies currently losing money hand over fist because of the standard we all currently have to adhere too. 

If they admit they were wrong and change the standard how many companies will sue for compensation ?

Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, frazzledfozzle said:

 

Im talking no offers Adam and no interest never mind

price expectations.

@Adam Boot If MPI change the manuka standard in the future then it's obvious to me they got it wrong in the first place and will be taking the blame for all those companies currently losing money hand over fist because of the standard we all currently have to adhere too. 

If they admit they were wrong and change the standard how many companies will sue for compensation ?

Seriously come on. No offers at all for Mono floral Manuka UMF5+ an over. Show me? 

Changing a standard in the future does not admit wrong it can simply be an improvement. My view is that it will become more stringent. In my view Multi Floral Manuka as it stands is a dangerous labelling error that will come back on us badly at some point. 

before the MPI standard it was more likely that we were going to be sued for misrepresentation. What would you have preferred?

Link to post
Share on other sites

Most areas in Australia have the advantage of no varroa, that has got to be a huge advantage - more hives/staff unit, and cheap gamma steralisation of all boxes and frames etc to sort any other greebies. Plus non of the insane and growing testing regime - no tutin for one thing.

  • Like 2
Link to post
Share on other sites
31 minutes ago, Sailabee said:

Most areas in Australia have the advantage of no varroa, that has got to be a huge advantage - more hives/staff unit, and cheap gamma steralisation of all boxes and frames etc to sort any other greebies. Plus non of the insane and growing testing regime - no tutin for one thing.

Why is testing insane? Do we want to be leaders on a world stage with best practice and best product or followers playing catch up? 

  • Agree 2
Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Restore formatting

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.


×
×
  • Create New...