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Honey Producers Co-op Meetings Update

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   On 14/06/2019 at 9:43 PM,  frazzledfozzle said: 

 

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   On 14/06/2019 at 9:43 PM,  frazzledfozzle said: 

 

Yes it’s interesting times for sure.

if it’s any consolation there’s a few beekeepers around the traps that have mono Manuka but because it’s not high UMF or high in MPI markers no one is interested in buying it.

So it’s not just multi Manuka and non Manuka that aren’t selling.

 

@Adam Boot said 

 

Quote

Are you absolutely sure it is Mono by the MPI standard? Are we talking significant volume or just a few barrels.

 

@Adam Boot I’ve said before on the forum that mono Manuka with low markers isn’t selling and have been basically poo pooed by more than a couple of people saying there’s plenty of demand for mono as long as it meets the standard and yet I know of multiple beekeepers who have this type of honey and no buyer.

 

So what has happened where has the market gone how can it have basically died overnight ?

 

since seeing my replies to your questions regarding our honey you haven’t said a word about saleability that tells me that I am right and that something has happened to the Manuka market which has pretty much killed it dead at the lower end of the scale.

 

 

If this is the case I would love to know why but nobody is talking.

It’s not only the guys in Northland that are feeling the pinch it’s beekeepers like us that don’t get the activity in our honey but still get Manuka that are also being affected by this new standard. 

 

Does anyone know know how to find out what tonnage of honey is shipped out of the country each month ?

 

 

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12 hours ago, CraBee said:

 

I agree.  The situation seems to be that a bunch of consultants are now onboard and they've said you need some money to pay us to take this further, and hence the request for money.

I don't have confidence in co-ops as a business model.

I can't see how they can deliver anything more than the existing larger companies are.

The 16 regional groups with $2m each as per the sales pitch interested me as that may have given the co-op a start at least, free money is always helpful, but how realistic is that?

I don't really see this going anywhere.  To get this off the ground you need principals with nous who don't need the input of advisers.  IMO.  

 

 

you miss the point ..... the other companies are offering squat .....so we need  to move on ....

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42 minutes ago, jamesc said:

you miss the point ..... the other companies are offering squat .....so we need  to move on ....

 

Yes exactly.

A co-op would put the money in the beekeepers pocket rather than in the packers. 

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1 hour ago, frazzledfozzle said:

 

Yes exactly.

A co-op would put the money in the beekeepers pocket rather than in the packers. 

I don't want to be the pessimist but our idea of a co op to put money in the beekeepers pockets...

We will be competing against prices already set by companies already racing to the bottom, correct me if I'm wrong unless we the co OP could control all honey produced instead of 10-15% how can we possibly offer a better price to the beekeeper. 

Of the 280 members to be how many are going to give up what they have goin domestically so the cooperative has domestic sales. Thus will be a important step in developing markets overseas by pushing the brand domestically to gain exposure.  Every member to be would have to change from there brand to cooperative brand. In order to gain the exposure to attempt local sales supermarkets etc.

Just throwing it out there...

 

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19 minutes ago, Nuc_man said:

I don't want to be the pessimist but our idea of a co op to put money in the beekeepers pockets...

We will be competing against prices already set by companies already racing to the bottom, correct me if I'm wrong unless we the co OP could control all honey produced instead of 10-15% how can we possibly offer a better price to the beekeeper. 

Of the 280 members to be how many are going to give up what they have goin domestically so the cooperative has domestic sales. Thus will be a important step in developing markets overseas by pushing the brand domestically to gain exposure.  Every member to be would have to change from there brand to cooperative brand. In order to gain the exposure to attempt local sales supermarkets etc.

Just throwing it out there...

 

To further complicate the domestic market issue I hear on the grapevine that Big C are going to resurrect the Holland’s and possibly Sweet Meadow brands (acquired from the previous co-op).  This would make it extremely difficult for a new co-op to make any headway domestically.

On the upside, I believe both brands had a reasonable export following which I assume Big C would be looking to resurrect as well thereby creating more demand for pasture type honeys.

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11 hours ago, frazzledfozzle said:
   On 14/06/2019 at 9:43 PM,  frazzledfozzle said: 
Does anyone know know how to find out what tonnage of honey is shipped out of the country each month ?

Hi Fraz, yes this information is freely available on the stats.govt website. Takes a bit of finding but it's there in great detail (per country and by HS codes).

 

Unlike Australia's. There are no honey production/export stats available, unless you get it commissioned by the Aus Dept of Stats. I enquired and they said it would cost $620 just to start an enquiry and rise from there depending on what was required!

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On 15/06/2019 at 12:40 AM, tommy dave said:

@Thomas Clow two questions:

1 - why not post a public link to make life even easier?

2 - do you endorse/support that give-a-little page?, noting i know of people prepared to put some money down (me included) who no longer will because of that page - noting that if the analysis of the pros and cons of that approach is too complex, then i can't imagine development of new markets will be easy

 

We want people who are truly interested to contact bruce personally to get the forms to submit donations. please email bruce, bruce@ceracell.co.nz if you wish to contrbute or ask him personal direct questions in relation to the co-op

 

We were made aware of an interested party start the give a little page. I don't see an issue with a member taking initiative to help the co-op at this stage.

 

16 hours ago, CraBee said:

 

I agree.  The situation seems to be that a bunch of consultants are now onboard and they've said you need some money to pay us to take this further, and hence the request for money.

I don't have confidence in co-ops as a business model.

I can't see how they can deliver anything more than the existing larger companies are.

The 16 regional groups with $2m each as per the sales pitch interested me as that may have given the co-op a start at least, free money is always helpful, but how realistic is that?

I don't really see this going anywhere.  To get this off the ground you need principals with nous who don't need the input of advisers.  IMO.  

 

 

 

Michael sage is a family friend, the money is not going to be touched by the advisors....that comment is rediculous.

 

What are the larger companies offering you? If they offerred you anything we wouldnt be in this situation in the first place.

 

If you need to repair your car, who do you go to? When you don't have the answers to a question you go looking for someone who does.  Everyone needs someones help to deal with situations that you personally have not dealt with. That is said with business as well. Mr Sage has consulted on Co-ops before and knows the challenges. So we need his advice on how in certain areas to best move forward.

 

17 hours ago, Adam Boot said:

In my opinion, if you your feasibility study is reliant on a lawyer an accountant and a lecturer then you my as well burn your $100k - Where are the business experts? 

 

Where are the experts. What business experts know the beekeeping industry better than Bruce? Lecturer, he has an MBA and has been runnning businesses for more than 20 years. I don't know anyone better or morally sound than Bruce to start this venture. I think people don't understand the situation. No one knows the emails we are getting from beekeepers who are in serious hardship, people are suffering and something needs to be done. Saying a market correction is just life, this is unacceptable. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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Posted (edited)

@Thomas Clow

Why are you speaking on Bruce's behalf Thomas

I know for a fact that Bruce can speak up for himself in public.
Isn't it about time he fronted up himself?

 

Edited by Philbee

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2 hours ago, Thomas Clow said:

 

We want people who are truly interested to contact bruce personally to get the forms to submit donations. please email bruce, bruce@ceracell.co.nz if you wish to contrbute or ask him personal direct questions in relation to the co-op

 

We were made aware of an interested party start the give a little page. I don't see an issue with a member taking initiative to help the co-op at this stage.

 

 

Michael sage is a family friend, the money is not going to be touched by the advisors....that comment is rediculous.

 

What are the larger companies offering you? If they offerred you anything we wouldnt be in this situation in the first place.

 

If you need to repair your car, who do you go to? When you don't have the answers to a question you go looking for someone who does.  Everyone needs someones help to deal with situations that you personally have not dealt with. That is said with business as well. Mr Sage has consulted on Co-ops before and knows the challenges. So we need his advice on how in certain areas to best move forward.

 

 

Where are the experts. What business experts know the beekeeping industry better than Bruce? Lecturer, he has an MBA and has been runnning businesses for more than 20 years. I don't know anyone better or morally sound than Bruce to start this venture. I think people don't understand the situation. No one knows the emails we are getting from beekeepers who are in serious hardship, people are suffering and something needs to be done. Saying a market correction is just life, this is unacceptable. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

The market for bush/multi-floral crashed when MPI introduced new standards. Those honey types could no longer be blended into "Manuka".  It is a supply and demand issue.

 

Honey marketers are telling us that the international manuka market has softened as a result of the problematic introduction of the MPI rules, and a general softening as manuka is not in vogue as much and its product life cycle has matured.

 

Those changes are a fact of a life and a company, partnership, sole trader, galactic conglomerate, trust or any other business structure will need to operate in that market.

 

It is commendable that you are trying to get a coop up and running and really positive PR for Cercacell but again there is nothing concrete there to suggest that it will go anywhere.  If there is something concrete, I'd be happy to hear about it?

 

As to use of the money you intend to raise, my recollection is that you were all go to go and see Shane Jones for $32m, then you met with advisers, and then the next thing you need 100K to go further.   It is not my intention to be negative, but realistic, and nothing that I've seen has persuaded me otherwise...

 

 

 

 

 

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5 minutes ago, CraBee said:

 

The market for bush/multi-floral crashed when MPI introduced new standards. Those honey types could no longer be blended into "Manuka".  It is a supply and demand issue.

 

Honey marketers are telling us that the international manuka market has softened as a result of the problematic introduction of the MPI rules, and a general softening as manuka is not in vogue as much and its product life cycle has matured.

 

Those changes are a fact of a life and a company, partnership, sole trader, galactic conglomerate, trust or any other business structure will need to operate in that market.

 

It is commendable that you are trying to get a coop up and running and really positive PR for Cercacell but again there is nothing concrete there to suggest that it will go anywhere.  If there is something concrete, I'd be happy to hear about it?

 

As to use of the money you intend to raise, my recollection is that you were all go to go and see Shane Jones for $32m, then you met with advisers, and then the next thing you need 100K to go further.   It is not my intention to be negative, but realistic, and nothing that I've seen has persuaded me otherwise...

 

 

 

 

 

I think it depends on ones perspective.
Personally I see a Co-Op or Co-Ops as a likely way forward from the bottom of the trough, as the dust settles and Beeks pick themselves up and dust themselves off

Many will likely be asking, "well what now" and there will likely be a natural inclination to Herd up.

It will likely be a matter of "safety in numbers" a concept that is as old as nature itself.
For a start it may not be a matter of getting a better price but rather a matter of survival in an environment that could be described with words like "Predatory, Hawkish, Opportunistic, difficult".

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17 hours ago, frazzledfozzle said:
   On 14/06/2019 at 9:43 PM,  frazzledfozzle said: 

 

 

@Adam Boot said 

 

 

@Adam Boot I’ve said before on the forum that mono Manuka with low markers isn’t selling and have been basically poo pooed by more than a couple of people saying there’s plenty of demand for mono as long as it meets the standard and yet I know of multiple beekeepers who have this type of honey and no buyer.

 

So what has happened where has the market gone how can it have basically died overnight ?

 

since seeing my replies to your questions regarding our honey you haven’t said a word about saleability that tells me that I am right and that something has happened to the Manuka market which has pretty much killed it dead at the lower end of the scale.

 

 

If this is the case I would love to know why but nobody is talking.

It’s not only the guys in Northland that are feeling the pinch it’s beekeepers like us that don’t get the activity in our honey but still get Manuka that are also being affected by this new standard. 

 

Does anyone know know how to find out what tonnage of honey is shipped out of the country each month ?

 

 

I agree that you honey is Mono floral Manuka. However, the Mono markets starts at UMF5+. You cannot put the UMF mark on anything under 5+. It then falls into an area where it is competing on the MGO content. It will be blended and sold as MGO30, 50, 70 or 85 multi floral. Because of the Low C4 your honey has a value to blend with other Mono also. There is nothing wrong with your honey it is just an awkward fit. 

8 hours ago, frazzledfozzle said:

 

Yes exactly.

A co-op would put the money in the beekeepers pocket rather than in the packers. 

No body seems to what or be able to explain HOW? How can the Co Op buy all the honey of the beekeepers at a rate above market price? 

Also, how will you cap the membership? As it is I do not see how you can fund the purchase of all the honey from 280 members and 113,000 hives. What if more signed up and it was 200,000 hives? The better the Co Op makes the offer the more beekeepers will want to sign up to the guaranteed sale. How the hell is the massive upfront cost being funded. 

4 hours ago, Thomas Clow said:

 

We want people who are truly interested to contact bruce personally to get the forms to submit donations. please email bruce, bruce@ceracell.co.nz if you wish to contrbute or ask him personal direct questions in relation to the co-op

 

We were made aware of an interested party start the give a little page. I don't see an issue with a member taking initiative to help the co-op at this stage.

 

 

Michael sage is a family friend, the money is not going to be touched by the advisors....that comment is rediculous.

 

What are the larger companies offering you? If they offerred you anything we wouldnt be in this situation in the first place.

 

If you need to repair your car, who do you go to? When you don't have the answers to a question you go looking for someone who does.  Everyone needs someones help to deal with situations that you personally have not dealt with. That is said with business as well. Mr Sage has consulted on Co-ops before and knows the challenges. So we need his advice on how in certain areas to best move forward.

 

 

Where are the experts. What business experts know the beekeeping industry better than Bruce? Lecturer, he has an MBA and has been runnning businesses for more than 20 years. I don't know anyone better or morally sound than Bruce to start this venture. I think people don't understand the situation. No one knows the emails we are getting from beekeepers who are in serious hardship, people are suffering and something needs to be done. Saying a market correction is just life, this is unacceptable. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Lets just seperate this into two parts. The beekeepers are to be members of a co op that purchases the honey they produce. The Beekeepers are the experts in running apiaries producing honey. 

Why do you want experts in beekeeping running the rest of the business - food processing, packing, logistics and marketing? If you treat this as a serious food production business creating and marketing FMCG products you will definitely not want it run by beekeepers. I would suspect that the beekeepers would want that side of the company run by experts also.  

6 hours ago, Ted said:

To further complicate the domestic market issue I hear on the grapevine that Big C are going to resurrect the Holland’s and possibly Sweet Meadow brands (acquired from the previous co-op).  This would make it extremely difficult for a new co-op to make any headway domestically.

On the upside, I believe both brands had a reasonable export following which I assume Big C would be looking to resurrect as well thereby creating more demand for pasture type honeys.

In my opinion I would not pay any real concern to this. The Big C has enough major issues of it's own to worry about. Relaunching to old brands is not going to be the saviour they need. They are probably going to have a major restructure and will need to make some very dramatic and drastic changes to their current model first. Resource spent on relaunches at this point would just paint over the cracks. 

3 hours ago, CraBee said:

 

The market for bush/multi-floral crashed when MPI introduced new standards. Those honey types could no longer be blended into "Manuka".  It is a supply and demand issue.

 

Honey marketers are telling us that the international manuka market has softened as a result of the problematic introduction of the MPI rules, and a general softening as manuka is not in vogue as much and its product life cycle has matured.

 

Those changes are a fact of a life and a company, partnership, sole trader, galactic conglomerate, trust or any other business structure will need to operate in that market.

 

It is commendable that you are trying to get a coop up and running and really positive PR for Cercacell but again there is nothing concrete there to suggest that it will go anywhere.  If there is something concrete, I'd be happy to hear about it?

 

As to use of the money you intend to raise, my recollection is that you were all go to go and see Shane Jones for $32m, then you met with advisers, and then the next thing you need 100K to go further.   It is not my intention to be negative, but realistic, and nothing that I've seen has persuaded me otherwise...

 

 

 

 

 

Your comment - 'Honey marketers are telling us that the international Manuka market has softened as a result of the problematic introduction of the MPI rules, and a general softening as Manuka is not in vogue as much and its product life cycle has matured' 

 

Who is saying this? I have not heard this or experienced this. 

Yes it has become more complex and challenging to meet market requirements. In my own experience it has not softened. Daily and weekly enquiries for Manuka are at levels I have never experienced before. We have expanded our sales department from 3 to 9 in the past 12 months and this is soon to increase again. New markets are opening and growing all the time. We have hardly scratched the surface. The global market has never been so exciting for Manuka. 

What has happened is that the retail price has found a ceiling. The prices are not dropping it is just that constant annual increases have ended. The market price has found some stability. 

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51 minutes ago, Adam Boot said:

No body seems to what or be able to explain HOW? How can the Co Op buy all the honey of the beekeepers at a rate above market price? 

That answer is easy.

The co op will always hold back a portion of returns , every year , so they can effectively afford to buy honey when it cannot be sold.

The answer is easy but in reality it does not work . No one wants a lower price on a high year just so there is money to buy in a bad year .

That is why co ops do not thrive in the good times and suppliers walk 

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1 minute ago, M4tt said:

That answer is easy.

The co op will always hold back a portion of returns , every year , so they can effectively afford to buy honey when it cannot be sold.

The answer is easy but in reality it does not work . No one wants a lower price on a high year just so there is money to buy in a bad year .

That is why co ops do not thrive in the good times and suppliers walk 

But for the first few years the Co Op sales will be a fraction of what they have commit to purchase. How will it fund those purchases and at prices guaranteed above market rate? 

The economics as they have been portrayed on this forum today are fundamentally flawed? 

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56 minutes ago, Adam Boot said:

I agree that you honey is Mono floral Manuka. However, the Mono markets starts at UMF5+. You cannot put the UMF mark on anything under 5+. It then falls into an area where it is competing on the MGO content. It will be blended and sold as MGO30, 50, 70 or 85 multi floral. Because of the Low C4 your honey has a value to blend with other Mono also. There is nothing wrong with your honey it is just an awkward fit. 

No body seems to what or be able to explain HOW? How can the Co Op buy all the honey of the beekeepers at a rate above market price? 

Also, how will you cap the membership? As it is I do not see how you can fund the purchase of all the honey from 280 members and 113,000 hives. What if more signed up and it was 200,000 hives? The better the Co Op makes the offer the more beekeepers will want to sign up to the guaranteed sale. How the hell is the massive upfront cost being funded. 

Lets just seperate this into two parts. The beekeepers are to be members of a co op that purchases the honey they produce. The Beekeepers are the experts in running apiaries producing honey. 

Why do you want experts in beekeeping running the rest of the business - food processing, packing, logistics and marketing? If you treat this as a serious food production business creating and marketing FMCG products you will definitely not want it run by beekeepers. I would suspect that the beekeepers would want that side of the company run by experts also.  

In my opinion I would not pay any real concern to this. The Big C has enough major issues of it's own to worry about. Relaunching to old brands is not going to be the saviour they need. They are probably going to have a major restructure and will need to make some very dramatic and drastic changes to their current model first. Resource spent on relaunches at this point would just paint over the cracks. 

Your comment - 'Honey marketers are telling us that the international Manuka market has softened as a result of the problematic introduction of the MPI rules, and a general softening as Manuka is not in vogue as much and its product life cycle has matured' 

 

Who is saying this? I have not heard this or experienced this. 

Yes it has become more complex and challenging to meet market requirements. In my own experience it has not softened. Daily and weekly enquiries for Manuka are at levels I have never experienced before. We have expanded our sales department from 3 to 9 in the past 12 months and this is soon to increase again. New markets are opening and growing all the time. We have hardly scratched the surface. The global market has never been so exciting for Manuka. 

What has happened is that the retail price has found a ceiling. The prices are not dropping it is just that constant annual increases have ended. The market price has found some stability. 

 

A few sources but principally a contributor to this forum who is a honey marketer and made those comments on this forum and who I believe is on the UMF Board.

Softening could be interpreted as having reached a ceiling.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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@Adam Boot Thankyou for your reply it really clarifies for me where our honey sits.

It would be really helpful to know in general terms without specifics what level of markers are most honey packers looking for when they are buying Manuka.

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, CraBee said:

 

A few sources but principally a contributor to this forum who is a honey marketer and made those comments on this forum and who I believe is on the UMF Board.

Softening could be interpreted as having reached a ceiling.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

The interesting thing is that Adam has expanded his sales team from 3 to 9 ..... and yet the quantity of Non Faux  Manuka available to the market has dropped . It's sound Irish to be hiring more staff on a drooping( not a spellingmistake) supply. 

And of course .... when a guy says 'Trust me' ..... we all know to double check our due diligence ... right ???

 

So this Co-op thing has got me mystified. Everyones is grumbling about low price and stock in sheds, so along comes a Man who wants to stir things up and get the markets moving ..... and everyone tries to shoot him in the foot.

Those who  purport to lead us in the Beehive  feed the  spin that Kiwi's have the attitude to achieve beyond all odds, to succeed when the chips are down ..... but the attitude that I am seeing on this forum is that the consensus are scared of change, or just lack the the proverbial to take control of their future. 

When you have been treading water for almost three years and are down to your last gasp of life, and all of a sudden you see a life raft in front of you, you swim like hell, you dig deep and make damn sure you grasp it with all your might. You don't wait for the  "better" option .....

The life raft might not be the luxury liner that you were accustomed to, but it sure as hell beats drowning, becuase I don't know about you guys, but we are down to our last breathe.

 

Edited by jamesc
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Sounds like I better send you a carton of the Dr.

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13 minutes ago, yesbut said:

Sounds like I better send you a carton of the Dr.

She's right mate ..... the honey shop just closed and I paid cash for 24. I'm good for tonight.

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13 hours ago, jamesc said:

The interesting thing is that Adam has expanded his sales team from 3 to 9 ..... and yet the quantity of Non Faux  Manuka available to the market has dropped . It's sound Irish to be hiring more staff on a drooping( not a spellingmistake) supply. 

And of course .... when a guy says 'Trust me' ..... we all know to double check our due diligence ... right ???

 

So this Co-op thing has got me mystified. Everyones is grumbling about low price and stock in sheds, so along comes a Man who wants to stir things up and get the markets moving ..... and everyone tries to shoot him in the foot.

Those who  purport to lead us in the Beehive  feed the  spin that Kiwi's have the attitude to achieve beyond all odds, to succeed when the chips are down ..... but the attitude that I am seeing on this forum is that the consensus are scared of change, or just lack the the proverbial to take control of their future. 

When you have been treading water for almost three years and are down to your last gasp of life, and all of a sudden you see a life raft in front of you, you swim like hell, you dig deep and make damn sure you grasp it with all your might. You don't wait for the  "better" option .....

The life raft might not be the luxury liner that you were accustomed to, but it sure as hell beats drowning, becuase I don't know about you guys, but we are down to our last breathe.

 

I never said 'Trust Me' simply because I care neither way. It is what it is. You do whatever due diligence makes you happy. 

Your comment - 'and yet the quantity of Non Faux  Manuka available to the market has dropped' I do not see the relevence of this to our particular business model. 

13 hours ago, jamesc said:

The interesting thing is that Adam has expanded his sales team from 3 to 9 ..... and yet the quantity of Non Faux  Manuka available to the market has dropped . It's sound Irish to be hiring more staff on a drooping( not a spellingmistake) supply. 

And of course .... when a guy says 'Trust me' ..... we all know to double check our due diligence ... right ???

 

So this Co-op thing has got me mystified. Everyones is grumbling about low price and stock in sheds, so along comes a Man who wants to stir things up and get the markets moving ..... and everyone tries to shoot him in the foot.

Those who  purport to lead us in the Beehive  feed the  spin that Kiwi's have the attitude to achieve beyond all odds, to succeed when the chips are down ..... but the attitude that I am seeing on this forum is that the consensus are scared of change, or just lack the the proverbial to take control of their future. 

When you have been treading water for almost three years and are down to your last gasp of life, and all of a sudden you see a life raft in front of you, you swim like hell, you dig deep and make damn sure you grasp it with all your might. You don't wait for the  "better" option .....

The life raft might not be the luxury liner that you were accustomed to, but it sure as hell beats drowning, becuase I don't know about you guys, but we are down to our last breathe.

 

If the life raft is simply a mirage, you have expended all that energy to arrive at the same result. 

I have not said that a co op can not work. I have simple stated that in my opinion 'this' co op, starting with the position of promising to buy all the honey produced and an inflated rate above market value, cannot work. 

Where is all the money going to magically appear from?

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21 minutes ago, Adam Boot said:

I have not said that a co op can not work. I have simple stated that in my opinion 'this' co op, starting with the position of promising to buy all the honey produced and an inflated rate above market value, cannot work

Where is all the money going to magically appear from?

 

Im not sure that the co-op is looking to pay above market value prices initially.

non Manuka isn’t selling at all as far as I can tell.

The only company I know that’s buying non Manuka is Airborne and they are paying maximum $4 kg.

If we can sell non Manuka to a co-op for $5 kg to get the ball rolling that’s better than have it sitting in the shed. 

At least there’s cashflow and hopefully the coop can get some marketing and higher prices happening in future years .

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3 minutes ago, frazzledfozzle said:

 

Im not sure that the co-op is looking to pay above market value prices initially.

non Manuka isn’t selling at all as far as I can tell.

The only company I know that’s buying non Manuka is Airborne and they are paying maximum $4 kg.

If we can sell non Manuka to a co-op for $5 kg to get the ball rolling that’s better than have it sitting in the shed. 

At least there’s cashflow and hopefully the coop can get some marketing and higher prices happening in future years .

So at $5 per kg where does the co op get all those $millions from on day one when they have no sales? The sales lag will mean that they are committed to buy more than they sell for a number of years, even if successful. Where are all the other $millions coming from to support the guaranteed purchase? Plus the $millions needed to support the infrastructure overhead? 

The $32m talked about so far is way off the mark. This would not even cut it for the first 2 years. 

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If people want more information please email Bruce, he will happily answer questions. bruce@ceracell.co.nz

 

He is not going to enter into a debate in this forum, he has better things to do with his time then debate openly on a forum, so if you are looking for answers please email him and he will do his best to answer your questions. 

 

We will be at the conference at Rotorua so come see us, I and Bruce will be there, he will gladly talk to you about the co-op there. 

 

 

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Things the co-op can be that won't require money

- a refuge with some like-minded people 

- a forum to share, complain, discuss and thrash things out, plan and dream for the future

- share openly without fear of ridicule or challenge.  Be specific about how dire your finances are, mental health.

- a central body to tally and co-ordinate a mountain of temporarily unwanted honey

- co-ordinate possibly sharing some equipment if nearby

 

 

An internet forum such as this can be a brutal place, but maybe brutal honesty is just what is needed.  I realize that many of you will cling resolutely to your dream, even up to the point of death.   Take care, and please realize that you don't have to stay in the industry, many of you would have a great work ethic and be able to find something a lot less painful and more rewarding to do even if it requires moving.  

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58 minutes ago, Thomas Clow said:

If people want more information please email Bruce, he will happily answer questions. bruce@ceracell.co.nz

 

He is not going to enter into a debate in this forum, he has better things to do with his time then debate openly on a forum, so if you are looking for answers please email him and he will do his best to answer your questions. 

 

We will be at the conference at Rotorua so come see us, I and Bruce will be there, he will gladly talk to you about the co-op there. 

 

 

Good idea

I would point out that you created this thread. If you did not want discussion, debate feedback, then why start it?

 

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43 minutes ago, Adam Boot said:

Good idea

I would point out that you created this thread. If you did not want discussion, debate feedback, then why start it?

 

 

Yes it was started, it's sole purpose was exposure to as many people as possible so no one was left unaware, the meetings were held and open conversation was held at those meetings. 

 

If you want to talk to the man, the door is open to do so. 

 

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