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Thomas Clow

Honey Producers Co-op Meetings Update

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2 hours ago, Philbee said:

Get a good one

How much do I have to pay for a good one .?

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18 minutes ago, kaihoka said:

How much do I have to pay for a good one .?

Not sure but 2k would likely be the least amount 

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I hope he doesn't join the throngs of detectors around here who leave craters everywhere

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8 hours ago, yesbut said:

I hope he doesn't join the throngs of detectors around here who leave craters everywhere

 

In the Maitai @yesbut ?

is there any gold found ?

what about greenstone ?

they say there’s greenstone in the Maitai and Aniseed rivers....

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1 hour ago, frazzledfozzle said:

 

In the Maitai @yesbut ?

is there any gold found ?

what about greenstone ?

they say there’s greenstone in the Maitai and Aniseed rivers....

No gold. Bottletops. Coins. Bits of car, etc.

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11 hours ago, yesbut said:

I hope he doesn't join the throngs of detectors around here who leave craters everywhere

At that price he is not going to be leaving any craters anywhere . 😀

2 hours ago, frazzledfozzle said:

 

In the Maitai @yesbut ?

is there any gold found ?

what about greenstone ?

they say there’s greenstone in the Maitai and Aniseed rivers....

I think its serpentine up the aniseed and wairoa .

It looks very similar .

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Righto ..... thought for the day. I been reading about HongKong and the Chinese reneging on their 1997 Treaty Deal, but we are not allowed to talk politics here so I'll move on quickly to the thought of the day.

Hong Kong has  a population of 15 million. New Zealand has a population of 4 million.   Say every person eats 500gm of honey a year ..... that's  38, 000 tonnes of honey.

 

That's quite a lot, eh.   The big problem I see is that I can't supply.  I need more bee hives.

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1 minute ago, jamesc said:

Righto ..... thought for the day. I been reading about HongKong and the Chinese reneging on their 1997 Treaty Deal, but we are not allowed to talk politics here so I'll move on quickly to the thought of the day.

Hong Kong has  a population of 15 million. New Zealand has a population of 4 million.   Say every person eats 500gm of honey a year ..... that's  38, 000 tonnes of honey.

 

That's quite a lot, eh.   The big problem I see is that I can't supply.  I need more bee hives.

I saw that the chinese pay $40 a kg for the wild cliff honey that the guys climb down ladders to get .

They think it is safe and natural .

Makes me wonder why they are so suspicious of the other honey available 

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37 minutes ago, jamesc said:

Righto ..... thought for the day. I been reading about HongKong and the Chinese reneging on their 1997 Treaty Deal, but we are not allowed to talk politics here so I'll move on quickly to the thought of the day.

Hong Kong has  a population of 15 million. New Zealand has a population of 4 million.   Say every person eats 500gm of honey a year ..... that's  38, 000 tonnes of honey.

 

That's quite a lot, eh.   The big problem I see is that I can't supply.  I need more bee hives.

I'll sell you some

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Make that 281... 

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15 hours ago, jamesc said:

Hong Kong has  a population of 15 million. New Zealand has a population of 4 million.   Say every person eats 500gm of honey a year ..... that's  38, 000 tonnes of honey.

 

Hong Kong's poplulation is 7.5 million.

https://www.worldometers.info/world-population/china-hong-kong-sar-population/

Per capita consumption is about 50g per person for  3,750 tonnes annual consumption.

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Proposed New Zealand Honey Producers’ Co-op

Where We Are At

 

You may or may not know, there is a grass-roots movement underway to set up a honey producers’ co-operative in New Zealand.  As the nexus of the movement, I thought I would let the wider beekeeping community know a little bit about what is happening, where we are up to, and see if you might be interested in joining the movement or maybe just helping in some tangible way.

 

Background

 

At Ceracell Beekeeping Supplies we are in regular contact with lots of beekeepers.  Since about the middle of last year we have been getting feedback that things were not as rosy in the industry as the public believed.  The messages of unhappiness, growing into despair, increased until in February this year it was very clear that many of our customers were really struggling financially.  The word was that many had not sold any non-manuka honey last season, and couldn’t sell any this season as well at any price. And it wasn’t just new beekeepers feeling the financial pressure.  Third generation beekeeping businesses were reporting that their banks which carried them through last year and this year were balking at extending overdrafts. The banks rightly were asking the question, that if you can’t sell your produce for two years in a row, why will it change for the coming season?

 

At Ceracell we advertise that we are here to “help beekeepers”.  Well it became pretty clear that right now “helping beekeepers” meant doing more than just selling them stuff.  In April, I organised a series of meetings throughout New Zealand with the objective of finding out if the problem was nationwide, and what could be done about it.  It is clear that the problem is nationwide.

 

The problem in its most basic description came about because of the decade long frenzy surrounding manuka honey and the skyrocketing prices it was getting.  Until MPI brought in the manuka honey definition, much non-manuka honey was being blended into manuka to increase volumes of that valuable specialist honey. As a result, the price of non-manuka honey got dragged up, and the inherent value of those other beautiful New Zealand honey varieties got ignored.  So now blending has stopped and because there has been a decade of no significant marketing overseas of non-manuka varieties, at best honey producers can get international bulk honey prices, if it can be sold at all. But what to do about it?

 

In talking to beekeepers, the word “co-op” kept popping up.  “If only we had a co-op that could find overseas markets and build value-added brands, things would be better.  At least we would know our honey would be bought. As it is, our usual private honey buyer won’t or can’t buy our honey.”  At the meetings in which I met with about 300 people, there was a genuine desire to work together and help each other. The co-operative model which is widely used in New Zealand in the primary produce sector seemed to fill the criteria, so that was the starting point.  I got some help from Michael Sage, a partner in the law firm, Simpson Grierson, who has expertise in co-ops. He brought on board a co-op experienced CA from the accounting firm, PwC, Justin Liddell. John Bell, a former tutor at Taratahi College and former lecturer in marketing at the University of Otago has provided valuable advice as well.

 

What Is Happening Now?

 

During and shortly after running the nationwide meetings I asked for people to make a verbal commitment to starting a journey towards establishing a honey producers’ co-op or some other model that would provide these primary benefits:

 

  1. Build an organisation based on the ethics and morality of helping each other.

  2. Commit to purchase the member’s honey in good years and bad years.

  3. Build brands and market the honey overseas.

  4. Return the added-value proceeds to the producer firstly through better gate prices and finally through dividends.

  5. Provide price guidance forecasts so the producer can start their season with some idea of what they will receive for their produce at the end of the season.

 

There are many other benefits that a co-op can provide members, but these are the main ones that beekeepers wanted from their co-op.  We received that commitment from over 280 beekeepers and beekeeping businesses that together run over 113,000 beehives.

 

The conundrum is that building a business that can do the above would take a lot of money, and most of the people drawn to the idea are currently in difficult financial circumstances.  So what to do?

 

After a very in-depth and to the point meeting with our advisors, we came up with a plan.  Step one was to seek donations to set-up a trust. The trust would be instructed to begin the detailed analysis of the business environment and the international honey market with a primary objective of creating a prospectus to put to potential members.  The trust, with the help of beekeepers on a steering committee would begin building the co-op, that is, the constitution and rules of operation for when it would be incorporated as a co-operative company. The trust would also prepare a cogent application to ask the Government for significant funding to carry the business for a number of years until the members were financial enough to carry it themselves.  Based on their extensive experience Michael and Justin felt that the very minimum that the trust would need to do these things, was $100,000. They also believed that a firm deadline to reach that goal should be set, because letting the issue drag on for many weeks without resolution would in fact cause the momentum that has been built with the goodwill shown by so many, to be lost.

 

So on 27 May I forwarded the documents provided by Michael, asking for donations from the 280 beekeeping businesses, looking for a total of $100,000 by 5 pm on 21 June 2019.  Those willing to help will deposit their donation directly into the Simpson Grierson solicitor’s trust account. If the total isn’t reached by the deadline, all the money donated will be returned to the givers.  If and when the $100,000 is reached, the trust will be set up and we will start. This would not necessarily mean a co-op would be established, as it would be necessary that significant other money would be needed, but the first hurdle would have been overcome.

Progress

 

Yes progress is sure and steady, and the desire for the co-op is as strong as ever.  Many have donated and some have donated a lot of money. Will we reach the target? I think it is a 50:50 call.  I do know that some beekeepers who desperately want a co-op are in such difficult financial circumstances that they truly cannot give anything.  Most of those that have given to date have given more on an individual basis than I would have thought possible. Others have said they will be donating, but the finances are so tight that the timing of dispensing cash is critical for them.  Whether they can free it up by the deadline, time will tell.

 

You Can Help

 

The reason I am writing to the wider community of beekeepers is because these beekeepers, these people with children, and employees, need this co-op.  And I think the beekeeping industry needs this co-op. On the weekend I had a chance to talk with a few of the 280, and I want to share with you an insight that Karl gave me.  He said the beekeeping industry will end up like the fishing industry if we don’t do something. The fishing industry is now dominated by a few large New Zealand corporates and overseas corporates who own most of the quota.  The small commercial fisherman has been pushed out of the industry. If these small to medium sized commercial beekeepers—family based beekeeping businesses—are allowed to fail, the beekeeping industry in four or five years will look like the fishing industry.  The opportunity for someone to start-up a one-person or two-person operation will be gone. But with a co-op designed to be the path-to-market for the smaller operator that opportunity will always be there. Big money doesn’t have to drive the smaller business out.

 

You can help, even if you don’t think you would ever become a member of the co-op, or if you think you can’t give very much.  You all know that one bee makes just one teaspoon of honey, yet each teaspoon one after another adds up to fill your drums!  If each bee looked on its own contribution as not being of significance, then nothing would get done and the hive would die. It is all a matter of numbers, and the smallest of numbers makes a difference.  If you think that you’d like to help these folk in even a very small way get over the line, please email me direct.  I will then send you the necessary documents to make a considered decision about donating, and how to donate. Remember the deadline, or maybe better to say the “start-line” is 5 pm 21 June 2019.  So don’t delay!

 

Thanks for taking the time to read this.

 

Kindest Regards

 

Bruce Clow

For the Proposed New Zealand Honey Producers’ Co-op

For Each Other, For the Future

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Posted (edited)
On 8/06/2019 at 7:56 PM, jamesc said:

I reckon, (but don't forget the bee veil  because the flies are dynamite) ..... particularly when the buyer  at the end of the track has cash ...... unlike back home  when I put the truck over the  honey weighbridge out of curiosity ,,and she weighs in at 22 tonne and where is the man ready and waiting with his cheque book.

 

Yes it’s interesting times for sure.

if it’s any consolation there’s a few beekeepers around the traps that have mono Manuka but because it’s not high UMF or high in MPI markers no one is interested in buying it.

So it’s not just multi Manuka and non Manuka that aren’t selling.

Edited by frazzledfozzle
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Posted (edited)
14 hours ago, Thomas Clow said:

If you think that you’d like to help these folk in even a very small way get over the line, please email me direct.  I will then send you the necessary documents to make a considered decision about donating, and how to donate.

@Thomas Clow two questions:

1 - why not post a public link to make life even easier?

2 - do you endorse/support that give-a-little page?, noting i know of people prepared to put some money down (me included) who no longer will because of that page - noting that if the analysis of the pros and cons of that approach is too complex, then i can't imagine development of new markets will be easy

Edited by tommy dave

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14 hours ago, frazzledfozzle said:

 

Yes it’s interesting times for sure.

if it’s any consolation there’s a few beekeepers around the traps that have mono Manuka but because it’s not high UMF or high in MPI markers no one is interested in buying it.

So it’s not just multi Manuka and non Manuka that aren’t selling.

 

14 hours ago, frazzledfozzle said:

 

Yes it’s interesting times for sure.

if it’s any consolation there’s a few beekeepers around the traps that have mono Manuka but because it’s not high UMF or high in MPI markers no one is interested in buying it.

So it’s not just multi Manuka and non Manuka that aren’t selling.

'mono Manuka but because it’s not high UMF or high in MPI markers no one is interested in buying it' 

 

Are you absolutely sure it is Mono by the MPI standard? Are we talking significant volume or just one or two barrels? 

On 13/06/2019 at 3:21 PM, Thomas Clow said:

 

 

Proposed New Zealand Honey Producers’ Co-op

Where We Are At

 

You may or may not know, there is a grass-roots movement underway to set up a honey producers’ co-operative in New Zealand.  As the nexus of the movement, I thought I would let the wider beekeeping community know a little bit about what is happening, where we are up to, and see if you might be interested in joining the movement or maybe just helping in some tangible way.

 

Background

 

At Ceracell Beekeeping Supplies we are in regular contact with lots of beekeepers.  Since about the middle of last year we have been getting feedback that things were not as rosy in the industry as the public believed.  The messages of unhappiness, growing into despair, increased until in February this year it was very clear that many of our customers were really struggling financially.  The word was that many had not sold any non-manuka honey last season, and couldn’t sell any this season as well at any price. And it wasn’t just new beekeepers feeling the financial pressure.  Third generation beekeeping businesses were reporting that their banks which carried them through last year and this year were balking at extending overdrafts. The banks rightly were asking the question, that if you can’t sell your produce for two years in a row, why will it change for the coming season?

 

At Ceracell we advertise that we are here to “help beekeepers”.  Well it became pretty clear that right now “helping beekeepers” meant doing more than just selling them stuff.  In April, I organised a series of meetings throughout New Zealand with the objective of finding out if the problem was nationwide, and what could be done about it.  It is clear that the problem is nationwide.

 

The problem in its most basic description came about because of the decade long frenzy surrounding manuka honey and the skyrocketing prices it was getting.  Until MPI brought in the manuka honey definition, much non-manuka honey was being blended into manuka to increase volumes of that valuable specialist honey. As a result, the price of non-manuka honey got dragged up, and the inherent value of those other beautiful New Zealand honey varieties got ignored.  So now blending has stopped and because there has been a decade of no significant marketing overseas of non-manuka varieties, at best honey producers can get international bulk honey prices, if it can be sold at all. But what to do about it?

 

In talking to beekeepers, the word “co-op” kept popping up.  “If only we had a co-op that could find overseas markets and build value-added brands, things would be better.  At least we would know our honey would be bought. As it is, our usual private honey buyer won’t or can’t buy our honey.”  At the meetings in which I met with about 300 people, there was a genuine desire to work together and help each other. The co-operative model which is widely used in New Zealand in the primary produce sector seemed to fill the criteria, so that was the starting point.  I got some help from Michael Sage, a partner in the law firm, Simpson Grierson, who has expertise in co-ops. He brought on board a co-op experienced CA from the accounting firm, PwC, Justin Liddell. John Bell, a former tutor at Taratahi College and former lecturer in marketing at the University of Otago has provided valuable advice as well.

 

What Is Happening Now?

 

During and shortly after running the nationwide meetings I asked for people to make a verbal commitment to starting a journey towards establishing a honey producers’ co-op or some other model that would provide these primary benefits:

 

  1. Build an organisation based on the ethics and morality of helping each other.

  2. Commit to purchase the member’s honey in good years and bad years.

  3. Build brands and market the honey overseas.

  4. Return the added-value proceeds to the producer firstly through better gate prices and finally through dividends.

  5. Provide price guidance forecasts so the producer can start their season with some idea of what they will receive for their produce at the end of the season.

 

There are many other benefits that a co-op can provide members, but these are the main ones that beekeepers wanted from their co-op.  We received that commitment from over 280 beekeepers and beekeeping businesses that together run over 113,000 beehives.

 

The conundrum is that building a business that can do the above would take a lot of money, and most of the people drawn to the idea are currently in difficult financial circumstances.  So what to do?

 

After a very in-depth and to the point meeting with our advisors, we came up with a plan.  Step one was to seek donations to set-up a trust. The trust would be instructed to begin the detailed analysis of the business environment and the international honey market with a primary objective of creating a prospectus to put to potential members.  The trust, with the help of beekeepers on a steering committee would begin building the co-op, that is, the constitution and rules of operation for when it would be incorporated as a co-operative company. The trust would also prepare a cogent application to ask the Government for significant funding to carry the business for a number of years until the members were financial enough to carry it themselves.  Based on their extensive experience Michael and Justin felt that the very minimum that the trust would need to do these things, was $100,000. They also believed that a firm deadline to reach that goal should be set, because letting the issue drag on for many weeks without resolution would in fact cause the momentum that has been built with the goodwill shown by so many, to be lost.

 

So on 27 May I forwarded the documents provided by Michael, asking for donations from the 280 beekeeping businesses, looking for a total of $100,000 by 5 pm on 21 June 2019.  Those willing to help will deposit their donation directly into the Simpson Grierson solicitor’s trust account. If the total isn’t reached by the deadline, all the money donated will be returned to the givers.  If and when the $100,000 is reached, the trust will be set up and we will start. This would not necessarily mean a co-op would be established, as it would be necessary that significant other money would be needed, but the first hurdle would have been overcome.

Progress

 

Yes progress is sure and steady, and the desire for the co-op is as strong as ever.  Many have donated and some have donated a lot of money. Will we reach the target? I think it is a 50:50 call.  I do know that some beekeepers who desperately want a co-op are in such difficult financial circumstances that they truly cannot give anything.  Most of those that have given to date have given more on an individual basis than I would have thought possible. Others have said they will be donating, but the finances are so tight that the timing of dispensing cash is critical for them.  Whether they can free it up by the deadline, time will tell.

 

You Can Help

 

The reason I am writing to the wider community of beekeepers is because these beekeepers, these people with children, and employees, need this co-op.  And I think the beekeeping industry needs this co-op. On the weekend I had a chance to talk with a few of the 280, and I want to share with you an insight that Karl gave me.  He said the beekeeping industry will end up like the fishing industry if we don’t do something. The fishing industry is now dominated by a few large New Zealand corporates and overseas corporates who own most of the quota.  The small commercial fisherman has been pushed out of the industry. If these small to medium sized commercial beekeepers—family based beekeeping businesses—are allowed to fail, the beekeeping industry in four or five years will look like the fishing industry.  The opportunity for someone to start-up a one-person or two-person operation will be gone. But with a co-op designed to be the path-to-market for the smaller operator that opportunity will always be there. Big money doesn’t have to drive the smaller business out.

 

You can help, even if you don’t think you would ever become a member of the co-op, or if you think you can’t give very much.  You all know that one bee makes just one teaspoon of honey, yet each teaspoon one after another adds up to fill your drums!  If each bee looked on its own contribution as not being of significance, then nothing would get done and the hive would die. It is all a matter of numbers, and the smallest of numbers makes a difference.  If you think that you’d like to help these folk in even a very small way get over the line, please email me direct.  I will then send you the necessary documents to make a considered decision about donating, and how to donate. Remember the deadline, or maybe better to say the “start-line” is 5 pm 21 June 2019.  So don’t delay!

 

Thanks for taking the time to read this.

 

Kindest Regards

 

Bruce Clow

For the Proposed New Zealand Honey Producers’ Co-op

For Each Other, For the Future

Hi Bruce 

Firstly I think that your efforts in this area are commendable and the end goal of providing greater security for beekeepers is paramount. 

I believe the analogy with the fishing industry to be spurious. Unless a quota system is introduced the industry has no need to develop in this way. I would also add that if you look at the top 5 producer/packers in this industry - Those that have committed to the largest hive numbers are struggling the greatest. Look at the big C? 

Many are now deciding to focus solely on Beekeeping or solely on producing and packing. Balancing a combined business model is extremely difficult and the fixed cost overhead burden of a large apiary is a dangerous commitment. 

The commitment to using the honey that they produce them selves often leaves them financially impaired and over burdened with the wrong stock. There is little guarantee that what you have harvested actually marries with the brands and ranges you have committed to market and sell. It is inevitable that you really substantially on market supply to make up differences and fill gaps. 

 

Though Co ops have some merit my concern in this instance is that 280 Beekeepers cannot raise $350 each almost instantly. $100,000 should not be a 50:50 call? 

Additionally 113,000 hives is less than 15% of the industry. Will that be enough to alter or influence market values? 

My immediate thought is the freight cost per kg dealing with 280+ seperate suppliers. Achieving economical loads from every region will be difficult. The Co Op starts with a disadvantage. 

 

  1. Build an organisation based on the ethics and morality of helping each other.

All good businesses would do well to have this as a foundation. 

  1. Commit to purchase the member’s honey in good years and bad years.

How can this promise be kept without placing huge financial burden on a fledgling business. How can you continue to buy with no guarantee of sales demand equaling supply.

If 113,000 hives produced 25kg each and you only paid $5 per kg - The Co Op needs $14m+ year one with no established customers, brand, range or market position. This is before Executive management, staff and all overhead. To have any comfort factor over the fist 3 years you are going to need at least $100m. 

  1. Build brands and market the honey overseas.

This will require a phenomenal long term budget just to get parity with existing major players. Can you acquire the skill set?

What volume and varieties are being produced by the 113K hives. 

With the inherited available infrastructure is there an SQF certified production facility? 

  1. Return the added-value proceeds to the producer firstly through better gate prices and finally through dividends.

So by guaranteeing better gate prices and buying entire production the production/packing/marketing and sales side of the business is condemned from the start to work with an uncompetitive raw material input cost. 

 

Provide price guidance forecasts so the producer can start their season with some idea of what they will receive for their produce at the end of the season.

 

Beekeepers working closely with packers with long term partnerships should already be having this guiding discussions. 

 

 

 

 

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1 hour ago, Adam Boot said:

Are you absolutely sure it is Mono by the MPI standard? Are we talking significant volume or just one or two barrels? 

 

Yes of it passes the MPI standard for mono Manuka tested by Analytica.

Just ourselves we have 2.5 tonne

but also know others who have more than that.

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51 minutes ago, frazzledfozzle said:

 

Yes of it passes the MPI standard for mono Manuka tested by Analytica.

Just ourselves we have 2.5 tonne

but also know others who have more than that.

What is the C4 and the UMF?

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2 hours ago, Adam Boot said:

 

'mono Manuka but because it’s not high UMF or high in MPI markers no one is interested in buying it' 

 

Are you absolutely sure it is Mono by the MPI standard? Are we talking significant volume or just one or two barrels? 

Hi Bruce 

Firstly I think that your efforts in this area are commendable and the end goal of providing greater security for beekeepers is paramount. 

I believe the analogy with the fishing industry to be spurious. Unless a quota system is introduced the industry has no need to develop in this way. I would also add that if you look at the top 5 producer/packers in this industry - Those that have committed to the largest hive numbers are struggling the greatest. Look at the big C? 

Many are now deciding to focus solely on Beekeeping or solely on producing and packing. Balancing a combined business model is extremely difficult and the fixed cost overhead burden of a large apiary is a dangerous commitment. 

The commitment to using the honey that they produce them selves often leaves them financially impaired and over burdened with the wrong stock. There is little guarantee that what you have harvested actually marries with the brands and ranges you have committed to market and sell. It is inevitable that you really substantially on market supply to make up differences and fill gaps. 

 

Though Co ops have some merit my concern in this instance is that 280 Beekeepers cannot raise $350 each almost instantly. $100,000 should not be a 50:50 call? 

Additionally 113,000 hives is less than 15% of the industry. Will that be enough to alter or influence market values? 

My immediate thought is the freight cost per kg dealing with 280+ seperate suppliers. Achieving economical loads from every region will be difficult. The Co Op starts with a disadvantage. 

 

  1. Build an organisation based on the ethics and morality of helping each other.

All good businesses would do well to have this as a foundation. 

  1. Commit to purchase the member’s honey in good years and bad years.

How can this promise be kept without placing huge financial burden on a fledgling business. How can you continue to buy with no guarantee of sales demand equaling supply.

If 113,000 hives produced 25kg each and you only paid $5 per kg - The Co Op needs $14m+ year one with no established customers, brand, range or market position. This is before Executive management, staff and all overhead. To have any comfort factor over the fist 3 years you are going to need at least $100m. 

  1. Build brands and market the honey overseas.

This will require a phenomenal long term budget just to get parity with existing major players. Can you acquire the skill set?

What volume and varieties are being produced by the 113K hives. 

With the inherited available infrastructure is there an SQF certified production facility? 

  1. Return the added-value proceeds to the producer firstly through better gate prices and finally through dividends.

So by guaranteeing better gate prices and buying entire production the production/packing/marketing and sales side of the business is condemned from the start to work with an uncompetitive raw material input cost. 

 

Provide price guidance forecasts so the producer can start their season with some idea of what they will receive for their produce at the end of the season.

 

Beekeepers working closely with packers with long term partnerships should already be having this guiding discussions. 

 

 

 

 

How do other Co-ops start?

IMO there will be a Co-op and there are people out there that can easily put up 100k each so  thats one of your questions answered

 

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40 minutes ago, Adam Boot said:

What is the C4 and the UMF?

 

Two batches

c4s 6.2 and 4.8 

NPA 6.2 and 3.3 

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46 minutes ago, Philbee said:

How do other Co-ops start?

IMO there will be a Co-op and there are people out there that can easily put up 100k each so  thats one of your questions answered

 

I would bloody hope they can reach $100k. If it is so easy though, why is it still a 50/50 call with 6 days to go to the deadline? This should have been wrapped in 24 hours. 

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Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, Adam Boot said:

I would bloody hope they can reach $100k. If it is so easy though, why is it still a 50/50 call with 6 days to go to the deadline? This should have been wrapped in 24 hours. 

Timing is probably one issue

 

Edited by Philbee

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3 hours ago, Philbee said:

How do other Co-ops start?

IMO there will be a Co-op and there are people out there that can easily put up 100k each so  thats one of your questions answered

 

In my opinion, if you your feasibility study is reliant on a lawyer an accountant and a lecturer then you my as well burn your $100k - Where are the business experts? 

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9 minutes ago, Adam Boot said:

In my opinion, if you your feasibility study is reliant on a lawyer an accountant and a lecturer then you my as well burn your $100k - Where are the business experts? 

Do you really need to be a business expert to sell something?
 

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21 minutes ago, Adam Boot said:

In my opinion, if you your feasibility study is reliant on a lawyer an accountant and a lecturer then you my as well burn your $100k - Where are the business experts? 

 

I agree.  The situation seems to be that a bunch of consultants are now onboard and they've said you need some money to pay us to take this further, and hence the request for money.

I don't have confidence in co-ops as a business model.

I can't see how they can deliver anything more than the existing larger companies are.

The 16 regional groups with $2m each as per the sales pitch interested me as that may have given the co-op a start at least, free money is always helpful, but how realistic is that?

I don't really see this going anywhere.  To get this off the ground you need principals with nous who don't need the input of advisers.  IMO.  

 

 

  • Agree 2

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