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Thomas Clow

Honey Producers Co-op Meetings Update

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No doubt ... it's always good to save for a rainy day ,,,,, but when you have had 1095 rainy days in a row ....it's quite easy to make a big dent in the savings.

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2 hours ago, frazzledfozzle said:

Hmm I don’t like it at all tbh .

to me give a little is about helping individuals who are going through hard times and need a cash injection for whatever it is they are going through, not for the creation of a company.

lets be honest beekeepers, packers, equipment suppliers have, in the past 7 odd years never had it so good and should have made a lot of money.

If some of that money hasn’t been put away for a rainy day then who’s problem is that ?

We all knew that things were going to change when a standard was introduced and had at least 3 years warning, if people decided to get into bees with that on the doorstep they should have done a lot of research as to what they were getting into. 

 

I doubt it will raise any money. 

I totally agree. This is not a good look for a Co Op start up operation. It smacks of desperation and if anything would probably put off serious investors and banks. 

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7 hours ago, jamesc said:

No doubt ... it's always good to save for a rainy day ,,,,, but when you have had 1095 rainy days in a row ....it's quite easy to make a big dent in the savings.

 

With that many rainy days it would probably pay to move on to sunnier sky’s 

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21 minutes ago, frazzledfozzle said:

 

With that many rainy days it would probably pay to move on to sunnier sky’s 

Uh huh ..... metal detector and gold claim in WA ... same sort of business ... chasing rainbows!

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46 minutes ago, jamesc said:

Uh huh ..... metal detector and gold claim in WA ... same sort of business ... chasing rainbows!

 

That would be super cool I would love to do that :) 

 

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Posted (edited)

I reckon, (but don't forget the bee veil  because the flies are dynamite) ..... particularly when the buyer  at the end of the track has cash ...... unlike back home  when I put the truck over the  honey weighbridge out of curiosity ,,and she weighs in at 22 tonne and where is the man ready and waiting with his cheque book.

Edited by jamesc
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1 hour ago, jamesc said:

Uh huh ..... metal detector and gold claim in WA ... same sort of business ... chasing rainbows!

Then,you too,can become a famous discovery channel star,James!!

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Now there's a thought ..... "Kiwi Beekeepers swarm the ditch to try their luck at the real oil".

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13 hours ago, jamesc said:

Uh huh ..... metal detector and gold claim in WA ... same sort of business ... chasing rainbows!

My son is looking at buying a metal detector now . Do you know much about them .

Bee keepers get around a lot in the back blocks .

They could  run less hives per site so they have an extra hour or two to run around with metal detector along the nearby creek banks .

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Co Op enthusiasts should look at the performance and changes occurring amongst the 5 or 6 largest honey producer/packers in the country before formalising a structure.

 

 The Big C situation and most recent announcements of departure and business review should be wake up call. It may not appear obvious but almost by default a Co Op structure could look very much like the current Big C structure with less of the accumulated skill base, brand recognition and market access.  

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What is so bad with a member trying to raise money for a co-op, we only need 100,000 to take as a show of faith to the government. Desperate....of course, why is this being formed? Bruce only went to 20 or so meetings across the country and saw beekeepers who are in need of revenue to support themselves. We wanted to see if there was a solution to the key problem that beekeepers are facing right now, which is they can't sell their honey!! this is the core of the issue. 

 

As I said earlier, this is still very early in the process, questions being asked can't be answered until we get there. You have to crawl before you walk. We only asked for a small monetary investment from the individuals who have shown that they want to partake in the co-op, to get us to that 100,000 mark. The lawyer advising the co-op specializes in co-ops and we need to head his advice, it's that simple. 

 

We are learning and have looked at the previous co-op issues and will take those into account.

 

Beekeeping suppliers, packers and beekeepers have not had it so good the last 7 years, where are your stats? It's all hearsay, I reckon, they charge so much, you know what I think, etc etc etc?? You don't know its that simple. Product development, marketing, machine maintenance, purchasing companies, new machinery, machinery breaking down, labour costs, infrastructure leases, trade show costs, overseas market development, website development, bank payments, beeswax purchasing, all costs a lot of money. I'm not saying companies don't put money away but costs simply don't vanish.

 

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38 minutes ago, Thomas Clow said:

What is so bad with a member trying to raise money for a co-op, we only need 100,000 to take as a show of faith to the government. Desperate....of course, why is this being formed? Bruce only went to 20 or so meetings across the country and saw beekeepers who are in need of revenue to support themselves. We wanted to see if there was a solution to the key problem that beekeepers are facing right now, which is they can't sell their honey!! this is the core of the issue. 

 

As I said earlier, this is still very early in the process, questions being asked can't be answered until we get there. You have to crawl before you walk. We only asked for a small monetary investment from the individuals who have shown that they want to partake in the co-op, to get us to that 100,000 mark. The lawyer advising the co-op specializes in co-ops and we need to head his advice, it's that simple. 

 

We are learning and have looked at the previous co-op issues and will take those into account.

 

Beekeeping suppliers, packers and beekeepers have not had it so good the last 7 years, where are your stats? It's all hearsay, I reckon, they charge so much, you know what I think, etc etc etc?? You don't know its that simple. Product development, marketing, machine maintenance, purchasing companies, new machinery, machinery breaking down, labour costs, infrastructure leases, trade show costs, overseas market development, website development, bank payments, beeswax purchasing, all costs a lot of money. I'm not saying companies don't put money away but costs simply don't vanish.

 

Nothing wrong with raising funds Thomas, in fact ideas were used such as Sausage Sizzles, Farmers Market/School fund raising schemes to get some money together for the individuals that could not spare $500-1000 as a donation (yes it is that tight for some out there folks).

The issue in question is the give a little page looks like the Co-Op is going out with hat in hand asking for money. This is a bad image to portray. 

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39 minutes ago, Thomas Clow said:

What is so bad with a member trying to raise money for a co-op, we only need 100,000 to take as a show of faith to the government. Desperate....of course, why is this being formed? Bruce only went to 20 or so meetings across the country and saw beekeepers who are in need of revenue to support themselves. We wanted to see if there was a solution to the key problem that beekeepers are facing right now, which is they can't sell their honey!! this is the core of the issue. 

 

As I said earlier, this is still very early in the process, questions being asked can't be answered until we get there. You have to crawl before you walk. We only asked for a small monetary investment from the individuals who have shown that they want to partake in the co-op, to get us to that 100,000 mark. The lawyer advising the co-op specializes in co-ops and we need to head his advice, it's that simple. 

 

We are learning and have looked at the previous co-op issues and will take those into account.

 

Beekeeping suppliers, packers and beekeepers have not had it so good the last 7 years, where are your stats? It's all hearsay, I reckon, they charge so much, you know what I think, etc etc etc?? You don't know its that simple. Product development, marketing, machine maintenance, purchasing companies, new machinery, machinery breaking down, labour costs, infrastructure leases, trade show costs, overseas market development, website development, bank payments, beeswax purchasing, all costs a lot of money. I'm not saying companies don't put money away but costs simply don't vanish.

 

Hi Thomas

 

Re- Your comment

As I said earlier, this is still very early in the process, questions being asked can't be answered until we get there. 

 

Where is there?

 

The point is that you have to answer questions, have a plan, formulate a business model, asset availability and management, executive personnel and structure, financial and governance structure before you get there! Without this know one can possibly know what they are being asked to investing in? this includes government and financial institutions. 

 

 

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Give a little page .... why not ..... might be a bit of an unorthodox way of crowd funding, but it might catch a philanthropic person  who is not in the bee industry.... and as we all know, when fishing you have to cast far and wide to catch the fishy.

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Adam is right of course but it is very early in the process. $100,000 sought essentially for what I see as a feasibility fund is a starting point and only that.

67 odd drums of honey at net $5.00 a kilo would about do it. Just another way of looking at it.

With all that honey sitting in sheds at the moment, how hard would it be to do???

134 beeks at a half drum each......................

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2 hours ago, Ali said:

Adam is right of course but it is very early in the process. $100,000 sought essentially for what I see as a feasibility fund is a starting point and only that.

67 odd drums of honey at net $5.00 a kilo would about do it. Just another way of looking at it.

With all that honey sitting in sheds at the moment, how hard would it be to do???

134 beeks at a half drum each......................

Or a $1 a hive from the 100,000 + hives of support so far been shown by beeks to the idea of a Co-op

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It's really none of my hobbyist business, but it is an open forum...

I'm an older rather than younger bloke, I've been a self employed builder since 1981, employing men up until about 2000 when the paperwork of employment

for me began to outweigh the benefits of not doing everything myself. I've had one or two financial ups and downs for various reasons. I understand the current honey market situation, I understand how the industry works, I understand how many beeks feel, I understand the felt need for under pressure beeks to do something to alleviate their situation. Trying to re-invent the marketing wheel will cost money, time, a lot of angst, and at the very very most will not achieve anything any sooner than the existing marketing infrastructure.  And at the least will be money down the tube. And in either case a lot of worry.

 

If I was sitting on 80 tonnes of $7.00 a kg honey that was worth $4.00 if anything, I'd be basically pulling out of the industry until someone bought it. 

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, yesbut said:

It's really none of my hobbyist business, but it is an open forum...

I'm an older rather than younger bloke, I've been a self employed builder since 1981, employing men up until about 2000 when the paperwork of employment

for me began to outweigh the benefits of not doing everything myself. I've had one or two financial ups and downs for various reasons. I understand the current honey market situation, I understand how the industry works, I understand how many beeks feel, I understand the felt need for under pressure beeks to do something to alleviate their situation. Trying to re-invent the marketing wheel will cost money, time, a lot of angst, and at the very very most will not achieve anything any sooner than the existing marketing infrastructure.  And at the least will be money down the tube. And in either case a lot of worry.

 

If I was sitting on 80 tonnes of $7.00 a kg honey that was worth $4.00 if anything, I'd be basically pulling out of the industry until someone bought it. 

My thoughts exactly Kimosabe. This might be the summer to go for a long walk .... seeing as the crop is in the shed already!

I think the thing to remember with this Coop thing is that the fundraising is for a feasability study. So nothing is certain, but at least with funds one can employ professionals to make an informed decision as to whether it is a goer or not. So the contribution should be viewed as a 'Koha' .... a gift to get things underway, with no expectation of a return.

I remember back in the early varroa days when the mite was found in the Nelson region. I went to a meeting where a battle plan was being prepared to ensure  the South Island  remained varroa free.  We needed to raise 100k to match a Gvt input to get the ball rolling and initiate the S. Island eradication program. There were about fifty or so bee keepers there, mostly hobbyist, but by the end of the meeting the funds had been raised and beehives pledged to restock the affected nelson Beekeepers.

It all fizzed in the end because someone had'nt done the due diligence on the pesticide of choice that was going to be used to wipe out the ferals..... but we won't go there..... today. The point is, the money we donated was a Koha. The plan was shelved and we never got a refund..... but I don't loose sleep over it.

At least we tried.

 The Coop may or may not work ..... but with a bit of cash we can do some due diligence and scoping, and answer some of Adm's probiing questions.  One thing is for certain though,  I'd hate to be sitting here in two years time with  honey still sitting in the shed looking for a home and saying to myself ...... 'I wonder what would have happened  if ...?'

 

Edited by jamesc
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I remember back in the early varroa days when the mite was found in the Nelson region. I went to a meeting where a battle plan was being prepared to ensure  the South Island  remained varroa free.  We needed to raise 100k to match a Gvt input to get the ball rolling and initiate the S. Island eradication program. There were about fifty or so bee keepers there, mostly hobbyist, but by the end of the meeting the funds had been raised and beehives pledged to restock the affected nelson Beekeepers.

 

And interestingly it was actually just one person who made that happen he turned the tide of the meeting where we had all given up and basically said nothing we can do it’s here now.

Matt Davidson of Seaton Valley Queen Bees stood up at that meeting and got us all to change our minds it was his speech and his get up and go that got an eradication attempt on the table.

 

very similar to the situation right now I feel.

Its one person galvanising the masses to make something happen rather than sit back and do nothing .

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On 9/06/2019 at 8:50 AM, kaihoka said:

My son is looking at buying a metal detector now . Do you know much about them .

Bee keepers get around a lot in the back blocks .

They could  run less hives per site so they have an extra hour or two to run around with metal detector along the nearby creek banks .

Get a good one

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7 hours ago, Adam Boot said:

Hi Thomas

 

Re- Your comment

As I said earlier, this is still very early in the process, questions being asked can't be answered until we get there. 

 

Where is there?

 

IMG_20190610_190953_249.jpg

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3 hours ago, yesbut said:

It's really none of my hobbyist business, but it is an open forum...

I'm an older rather than younger bloke, I've been a self employed builder since 1981, employing men up until about 2000 when the paperwork of employment

for me began to outweigh the benefits of not doing everything myself. I've had one or two financial ups and downs for various reasons. I understand the current honey market situation, I understand how the industry works, I understand how many beeks feel, I understand the felt need for under pressure beeks to do something to alleviate their situation. Trying to re-invent the marketing wheel will cost money, time, a lot of angst, and at the very very most will not achieve anything any sooner than the existing marketing infrastructure.  And at the least will be money down the tube. And in either case a lot of worry.

 

If I was sitting on 80 tonnes of $7.00 a kg honey that was worth $4.00 if anything, I'd be basically pulling out of the industry until someone bought it. 

 

Oh geez you can't be too careful with your password.  Some geriatric builder bloke has hijacked the cats account and done away with the cats laconic, obtuse wit and replaced it with razor like logic.  

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 It's time to step up or shut up .Support the co operative. What do you have to lose ! What do you have to gain! Selling your honey!

So many of you are happy to sit on the fence and do nothing but moan.

And yes we are supporting Bruce and the co operative with a funds, are you?

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4 hours ago, yesbut said:

It's really none of my hobbyist business, but it is an open forum...

I'm an older rather than younger bloke, I've been a self employed builder since 1981, employing men up until about 2000 when the paperwork of employment

for me began to outweigh the benefits of not doing everything myself. I've had one or two financial ups and downs for various reasons. I understand the current honey market situation, I understand how the industry works, I understand how many beeks feel, I understand the felt need for under pressure beeks to do something to alleviate their situation. Trying to re-invent the marketing wheel will cost money, time, a lot of angst, and at the very very most will not achieve anything any sooner than the existing marketing infrastructure.  And at the least will be money down the tube. And in either case a lot of worry.

 

If I was sitting on 80 tonnes of $7.00 a kg honey that was worth $4.00 if anything, I'd be basically pulling out of the industry until someone bought it. 

Some very good points. Unfortunately putting the bees on hold is a bit harder than puting  the hammer and skillsaw in the cupboard for a year or two.

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1 hour ago, Beeman1 said:

 It's time to step up or shut up .Support the co operative. What do you have to lose ! What do you have to gain! Selling your honey!

So many of you are happy to sit on the fence and do nothing but moan.

And yes we are supporting Bruce and the co operative with a funds, are you?

Bloody good for you. 

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