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Thomas Clow

Honey Producers Co-op Meetings Update

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6 minutes ago, Ted said:

As a commodity honey is worth what someone is prepared to pay for it - current world prices will be a guide with hopefully a premium for our quality.

 

The co-op may be the answer but as you said yourself you need to know how it’s going to achieve its goals before you invest rather than blindly throwing money at it.  I don’t know how it will make a difference and I’m waiting for someone to tell me.  

Ok maybe some packers out there on this forum could give us a answer better than we are working on it ( so am i).

 

Is there any future brightness that may give some hope?

 

Will you be buying in near future?

Next year?

 

Is 5$ a kg the knew normal?

Or no sale ?

 

Because if it is the sustainability of this industry...well it wont be sustainable..

 

It's really hard running a business on a crystal ball.

 

Be even harder running a packing plant without suppliers .

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Another thought.  I joined the original co-op in the early 90’s purely to have a guaranteed outlet for my honey - 1 share = 1kg of Honey per year.  Are we back to this situation where a shareholder knows that they can sell their crop??  It won’t improve the price any though and would require a hell of a lot of funding!!

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10 minutes ago, Ted said:

Another thought.  I joined the original co-op in the early 90’s purely to have a guaranteed outlet for my honey - 1 share = 1kg of Honey per year.  Are we back to this situation where a shareholder knows that they can sell their crop??  It won’t improve the price any though and would require a hell of a lot of funding!!

I guess you are saying any increase in sale will be off set by the expense of setting co op up.

 

So defeats the purpose?

 

So maybe short or long term still be in same boat?

 

Dose that mean learn to live on low price or exit industry?

 

Problems will mount fast as this correction takes place maybe we need to set up a page for the exit of beekeepers a place to cremate unwanted beehives? 

 

Area emergency  response to hives left to die.

 

This will be everybody's problem...

 

 

 

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24 minutes ago, Nuc_man said:

I guess you are saying any increase in sale will be off set by the expense of setting co op up.

 

So defeats the purpose?

 

So maybe short or long term still be in same boat?

 

Dose that mean learn to live on low price or exit industry?

 

Problems will mount fast as this correction takes place maybe we need to set up a page for the exit of beekeepers a place to cremate unwanted beehives? 

 

Area emergency  response to hives left to die.

 

This will be everybody's problem...

 

 

 

No I was meaning I still don’t think the co-op will be able to add any value to the honey but at least you could sell it.

47 minutes ago, Nuc_man said:

Ok maybe some packers out there on this forum could give us a answer better than we are working on it ( so am i).

 

Is there any future brightness that may give some hope?

 

Will you be buying in near future?

Next year?

 

Is 5$ a kg the knew normal?

Or no sale ?

 

Because if it is the sustainability of this industry...well it wont be sustainable..

 

It's really hard running a business on a crystal ball.

 

Be even harder running a packing plant without suppliers .

That’s a fair call.  Some reassurance from current exporters would be great - if they can give any. 

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I'm just a small fish, but if I knew that the future of pasture honey was going to be at least 7.00 a kg, I would be happy and have no doubts about continuing. I have low costs, and I don't know how on earth bigger companies with staff and equipment galore manage with the low price. I would think around 14.00 a kg on the shelf to the consumer would be a fair price, allowing for the packers and supermarkets etc to make their bit. 

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Ah ..... do I sense a slight shift in Uncle Ted's stance ...... as he so rightly says, the co op might not offer a radically higher price, but it will provide an outlet for the seasons harvest, which is way more than we have at the moment.

 

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45 minutes ago, jamesc said:

Ah ..... do I sense a slight shift in Uncle Ted's stance ...... as he so rightly says, the co op might not offer a radically higher price, but it will provide an outlet for the seasons harvest, which is way more than we have at the moment.

 

Thought I better throw you a bone @jamesc.😉  

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3 hours ago, Adam O'Sullivan said:

I'm just a small fish, but if I knew that the future of pasture honey was going to be at least 7.00 a kg, I would be happy and have no doubts about continuing. I have low costs, and I don't know how on earth bigger companies with staff and equipment galore manage with the low price. I would think around 14.00 a kg on the shelf to the consumer would be a fair price, allowing for the packers and supermarkets etc to make their bit. 

$14 on the shelf is about $12 ex get. If the beekeeper sells for $7 it leaves $5 to split between the retailer and the packer. That is before Jar, lid, label, testing, compliance, fixed and variable overhead and up to three sets of transport and the list continues. 

Your sell price is not necessarily wrong and will probably settle a little higher eventually, but the $14 per kg is way of for the RRP.  

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This packaging says it all.... right.

73245607-D891-4D35-AE65-4C11131DBE72.jpeg

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1 hour ago, Adam Boot said:

$14 on the shelf is about $12 ex get. If the beekeeper sells for $7 it leaves $5 to split between the retailer and the packer. That is before Jar, lid, label, testing, compliance, fixed and variable overhead and up to three sets of transport and the list continues. 

Your sell price is not necessarily wrong and will probably settle a little higher eventually, but the $14 per kg is way of for the RRP.  

Can you gaze into your crystal ball Adam and suggest when we might see a $7 price to the beekeeper and active buyers (no guarantees of course)??  Some light at the end of the tunnel may help alleviate the stress currently being suffered by non Manuka producers.

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1 hour ago, jamesc said:

This packaging says it all.... right.

73245607-D891-4D35-AE65-4C11131DBE72.jpeg

Is this the aforementioned product that has taken nine months of R&D to sell at the farm gate, or will it be sold in the café under the boughs of the monetary pine?  For a main I will order a little baked salmon caught using huhus from the monetary pine, followed by a clover honey crème brulee.  Oh, I forgot, the entrée, a nice little bit of free range venison steak from a neighbouring paddock on homemade bread.   If it's a really cold day, a decent sized cup of mulled wine with beech dew on arrival wouldn't go astray. 

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12 hours ago, Adam Boot said:

Now you have lost me. Image one is an approximate example of current production output and you have a tick next to it. 

Image two does not exist. If you moved the horizontal line up to approx one third from the top and put Manuka at the top and traditional honey below - you may have an image of the revenue split. 

You are correct Adam, Image two doesn't exist and image one is a fair representation of what we have had, More or Less.
However if you were on the ground or at least in a different space you may have seen the thin edge of the wedge that will lead to image 2.

I can see it coming and have had a first hand experience of it recently where a medium sized Manuka outfit made an inaccurate assumption when trying to take a large number of sites from me.
 

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No Maggie, this is the afore mentioned product that has taken over eighty years to bring to fruition, a brand that has been sold around the world at a premium for many years, and is sought after by  the discerning palates of both  queens and paupers alike.

Now is the time to relaunch this product once again onto the world stage as a honey of unsurpassed quality ....a product of a land where the wild pig and venison have unfettered scope to roam, where the Salmon thrash their way to a certain death up braided rivers of mountain fed water to give life  to a new generation, and  where the Bee is revered and thrives amongst the hills and valleys of this gentle land.

Now is the time to savour the sweet taste  of wild pork drizzled with dew, slow cooked in mother earth's hangi pit, or the tender loin  of venison seered on hot Manuka embers and moisturised with the nectar of the Rata  brewed on the Coast.....

Now is the time . But this taste of paradise does not come cheap.

 

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3 hours ago, jamesc said:

.a product of a land where the wild pig and venison have unfettered scope to roam, where the Salmon thrash their way to a certain death up braided rivers of mountain fed water to give life  to a new generation, and  where the Bee is revered and thrives amongst the hills and valleys of this gentle land.

Now is the time to savour the sweet taste  of wild pork drizzled with dew, slow cooked in mother earth's hangi pit, or the tender loin  of venison seered on hot Manuka embers and moisturised with the nectar of the Rata  brewed on the Coast.....

Now is the time . But this taste of paradise does not come cheap.

 

If you can pull it off, there's a lot of value to be had at the premium end of any brand/product spectrum - which is more or less what a lot of @Adam Boot's posts seem to be getting at. Hope you manage it, it's far easier to heckle from the sidelines than to get in and do something.

 

this imagery sounds a lot like Pure NZ branding - which proved effective, especially until people came here and saw all the south island river beds devoid of water due to it all being extracted by irrigation - lucky most tourists don't see that, and when they look at stands of pine forest they assume it's "the nature" eh

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15 hours ago, Maggie James said:

Is this the aforementioned product that has taken nine months of R&D to sell at the farm gate, or will it be sold in the café under the boughs of the monetary pine?  For a main I will order a little baked salmon caught using huhus from the monetary pine, followed by a clover honey crème brulee.  Oh, I forgot, the entrée, a nice little bit of free range venison steak from a neighbouring paddock on homemade bread.   If it's a really cold day, a decent sized cup of mulled wine with beech dew on arrival wouldn't go astray. 

 

You are going to need to take some care though if you want to use that honey pot design commercially, it was created by someone else and is likely owned by someone else.  You don't want to get in a situation where you are building a brand and then have to withdraw it.  That honey pot image is also used by others, including ourselves, on our own website.

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16 hours ago, Ted said:

Can you gaze into your crystal ball Adam and suggest when we might see a $7 price to the beekeeper and active buyers (no guarantees of course)??  Some light at the end of the tunnel may help alleviate the stress currently being suffered by non Manuka producers.

My opinion only - I think two painful years and then recovery. I think prices will be above $7 but if they rise past $8.5 then there is risk of losing market share again. 

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8 minutes ago, Adam Boot said:

My opinion only - I think two painful years and then recovery. I think prices will be above $7 but if they rise past $8.5 then there is risk of losing market share again. 

Thanks Adam for your opinion as somebody with there finger on the pulse..

I can survive on that...

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1 hour ago, Adam Boot said:

My opinion only - I think two painful years and then recovery. I think prices will be above $7 but if they rise past $8.5 then there is risk of losing market share again. 

Thanks Adam, I hope for everyone’s sake your right!!  

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1 hour ago, Adam Boot said:

My opinion only - I think two painful years and then recovery. I think prices will be above $7 but if they rise past $8.5 then there is risk of losing market share again. 

 

For mono floral non Manuka ?

light non Manuka ?

bush blends ?

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Does that two years take into account another two years of stockpiled honey, or is the increase up to $7 reflect a dramatic drop of in production for two years, followed by a shortage , and therefore price increase .

 

It's something to think about because some will keep producing and others will drop off, and the combined effect of these two actions plus supply and demand both here and abroad is far too difficult to build a reliable picture on .

 

A price increase can really only be driven by a shortage of product , top shelf stuff aside. 

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19 minutes ago, M4tt said:

Does that two years take into account another two years of stockpiled honey, or is the increase up to $7 reflect a dramatic drop of in production for two years, followed by a shortage , and therefore price increase .

 

It's something to think about because some will keep producing and others will drop off, and the combined effect of these two actions plus supply and demand both here and abroad is far too difficult to build a reliable picture on .

 

A price increase can really only be driven by a shortage of product , top shelf stuff aside. 

I think it’s more about the time taken to re-establish lost export markets.  Adam will no doubt correct me if I’m wrong.

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12 hours ago, Philbee said:

You are correct Adam, Image two doesn't exist and image one is a fair representation of what we have had, More or Less.
However if you were on the ground or at least in a different space you may have seen the thin edge of the wedge that will lead to image 2.

I can see it coming and have had a first hand experience of it recently where a medium sized Manuka outfit made an inaccurate assumption when trying to take a large number of sites from me.
 

I think all of us that are immersed in this industry see first hand what is going on. Many inaccurate assumptions have been made with Manuka investments, however for your second image to exist Manuka kg value would have to drop below the other honey verities. That is not going to happen. 

55 minutes ago, M4tt said:

Does that two years take into account another two years of stockpiled honey, or is the increase up to $7 reflect a dramatic drop of in production for two years, followed by a shortage , and therefore price increase .

 

It's something to think about because some will keep producing and others will drop off, and the combined effect of these two actions plus supply and demand both here and abroad is far too difficult to build a reliable picture on .

 

A price increase can really only be driven by a shortage of product , top shelf stuff aside. 

A broad combination of factors. The current low prices will provide entry back into markets given some time. As these develop demand will increase and supply tighten and prices rise. Above a certain price point the volume will retreat again. Additionally, new markets and product development will drive growth. I am quite optimistic. 

1 hour ago, M4tt said:

Does that two years take into account another two years of stockpiled honey, or is the increase up to $7 reflect a dramatic drop of in production for two years, followed by a shortage , and therefore price increase .

 

It's something to think about because some will keep producing and others will drop off, and the combined effect of these two actions plus supply and demand both here and abroad is far too difficult to build a reliable picture on .

 

A price increase can really only be driven by a shortage of product , top shelf stuff aside. 

A price increase can really only be driven by a shortage of product , top shelf stuff aside. 

 

That can come multiple ways though. Increased demand or reduced output or demand outstripping production output. 

1 hour ago, frazzledfozzle said:

 

For mono floral non Manuka ?

light non Manuka ?

bush blends ?

All of the above

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Possibly a good time for someone with deep pockets to enter the industry. Gear suppliers will be happy to sharpen pencils, sites falling vacant.....landowner's expectations taken a swipe, quite likely complete outfits going for a song..  acquire a few more  Big C shares.....

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3 minutes ago, yesbut said:

Possibly a good time for someone with deep pockets to enter the industry. Gear suppliers will be happy to sharpen pencils, sites falling vacant.....landowner's expectations taken a swipe, quite likely complete outfits going for a song..  acquire a few more  Big C shares.....

Wish I could sing lol

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1 hour ago, Ted said:

I think it’s more about the time taken to re-establish lost export markets.  Adam will no doubt correct me if I’m wrong.

I would agree Ted.

12 minutes ago, yesbut said:

Possibly a good time for someone with deep pockets to enter the industry. Gear suppliers will be happy to sharpen pencils, sites falling vacant.....landowner's expectations taken a swipe, quite likely complete outfits going for a song..  acquire a few more  Big C shares.....

Agree with all except Big C

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