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tristan

Self Cleaning Filter from HD process

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we have been trailing a self cleaning filter supplied by HD process.

http://www.hdprocess.co.nz/products/category/self-cleaning-filters.html

not the exact same as pictured but same basic setup.

technically its not a filter but rather a sieve. a filter will filter out a wide range of sized particles. even a 200 mic filter will filter out a bit of 10 mic particles. however a 200 mic sieve will not.

a minor point but one worth understanding.

this uses a small motor to turn a small blade that cleans off the surface of the filter. that way you can use a small filter without it getting blocked up. this also means that the stuff scrapped off the filter stays in suspension and can be drained out of the filter.

 

with honey, this machine has the honey mix entering in near the bottom. honey drains through the wire filter and out the bottom. wax floats to the top of the honey where it is drained out the top valve.

however i found it really needs to be kept completely full of honey in order to have the wax rise up to the top to the outlet. the simple way to do that was to raise the honey outlet up high.

so the hose out of the machine now goes up to the top of the filter. this makes a trap, much like a kitchen sink waste trap. this keeps the filter full even when your not pumping anything through it.

also having a tap on the outlet is rather handy to generate pressure to push wax out.

one issue is if you leave it to long and the wax dries out, its kinda hard to get to go out the outlet without a bit of force. block the honey outlet, open the wax outlet and pump pressure does the rest.

 

the trick i find with it is to do pump the wax mix out fairly regularly. its opposite to a spin float where you try to get nice dry wax. with the filter you want very wet wax. that wax mix then goes to the wax press. it goes in with the cappings.

 

honey pump speed, i can run our pump at max speed and it handles it fine. thats faster than what we can extract with a 24 and 16 frame extractors. most of the time i run the pump at 3/4 speed.

the good thing is you can vary the speed with no issues. so if you have been doing part boxes all day then do a few pallets of very full boxes, you can just crank the pump speed up with no issues.

 

i find it does a very good job of cleaning the honey, except that it lets through wax thats under the filter size. we have a 200 mic filter (i think) and the tub gets a bit of sub 200 mic wax floating on top. in fact it gets mixed in with the usual honey foam.  i actually check the drums to see how much of this wax gets into the drums and found its next to nothing. its a very thin coating on top of the honey. 

nothing a packer won't filter out with ease.

 

recently we gave it a torture test. a customer brought in pallets of willow dew honey. this amount is a bit of a nightmare for spin floats because spin floats capture crystalline honey very well.

with the filter its a bit problematic as well because crystalline doesn't float to the top like wax does. we have had normal amounts through the filter previously without issue, but this was a huge amount of it.

in the end what i found worked well was to keep heat exchanger at normal, increase the speed of the filter cleaning, slow down the pump speed and keep opening the wax outlet often to get the crystalline out.  keep in mind this is 100% willow dew.

that crystalline honey then went through the wax press, the honey from that goes back though the filter.

overall i was surprised at how little crystalline was left in the wax from the wax press. with spin floats it builds up and is a lot to clean out. i wonder if the cleaning action of the filter somehow helps break up some of the crystalline honey.

this also comes with a 300w thermostatically heater wrap around half of it. i suspect this is to stop crystalline honey from sticking to the inside. something i think spin floats desperately need.

 

this came with a pressure gauge which will tell you if the filter is getting blocked up. in normal operation the pressure required to push honey through it is next to nothing provided its heated well enough. i've got it set to around mid 30's, typically 34 degrees is all it needs. going hotter doesn't really help unless your pumping big volumes. i'm actually running a bit cooler than what the spin float requires.

downside is you really need a pressure warning alarm because your not always watching the gauge and at one time it did clog, pressure rises rapidly and it blew a hose off.

 

cleaning should it get jammed is fairly easy. has a built in lifter to lift the motor off and then you pull the filter out. quick clean and pop it back in. only takes a few minutes.

 

so i've been comparing to it to our rather old BeeTech spin float.

the spin float was originally setup to handle all the wax, but like most spin floats they don't really handle wax well, especially if its comes in big chunks.

since we got the wax press which takes care of the cappings, the spin floats only handles the wax from the extractors. that makes it work a whole lot better.

 

spin float

pro's

very clean honey except on shutdown where a bit of wax gets in. other brands/models can have similar issues on startup.

 

cons's

big danger factor. a lot of weight standing up high, spinning at high speed. it has been known to throw a wobbly.

requires bolting to floor.

has complicated startup and shut down routines which take a while.  does not like sudden increases in pump speed.

bearings are an issue.

takes a fair bit of time to clean and then requires time to dry as water can get trapped in it.

noisy.

 

 

self cleaning filter

pro's

fairly insensitive to pump speeds. can slow down or speed up pump without issues unless you have massive amounts of crystalline honey.

cleans honey well enough

safe, it rotates cleaning blade internally and at very slow speed. no need to bolt it to the floor.

fast to startup and shutdown.

fairly easy to remove filter for cleaning.

quiet running

 

cons

bit of extra pipe work required and traps a bit of honey in it (which can be drained but is unprocessed) 

not quite as clean as spin float. foam and wax build up in the tank to be managed.

requires a wax press.

 

thanks to HD process for the rather long trail of it so i could work out the kinks.

i hope that helps someone.

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12 minutes ago, tristan said:

we have been trailing a self cleaning filter supplied by HD process.

http://www.hdprocess.co.nz/products/category/self-cleaning-filters.html

not the exact same as pictured but same basic setup.

technically its not a filter but rather a sieve. a filter will filter out a wide range of sized particles. even a 200 mic filter will filter out a bit of 10 mic particles. however a 200 mic sieve will not.

a minor point but one worth understanding.

this uses a small motor to turn a small blade that cleans off the surface of the filter. that way you can use a small filter without it getting blocked up. this also means that the stuff scrapped off the filter stays in suspension and can be drained out of the filter.

 

with honey, this machine has the honey mix entering in near the bottom. honey drains through the wire filter and out the bottom. wax floats to the top of the honey where it is drained out the top valve.

however i found it really needs to be kept completely full of honey in order to have the wax rise up to the top to the outlet. the simple way to do that was to raise the honey outlet up high.

so the hose out of the machine now goes up to the top of the filter. this makes a trap, much like a kitchen sink waste trap. this keeps the filter full even when your not pumping anything through it.

also having a tap on the outlet is rather handy to generate pressure to push wax out.

one issue is if you leave it to long and the wax dries out, its kinda hard to get to go out the outlet without a bit of force. block the honey outlet, open the wax outlet and pump pressure does the rest.

 

the trick i find with it is to do pump the wax mix out fairly regularly. its opposite to a spin float where you try to get nice dry wax. with the filter you want very wet wax. that wax mix then goes to the wax press. it goes in with the cappings.

 

honey pump speed, i can run our pump at max speed and it handles it fine. thats faster than what we can extract with a 24 and 16 frame extractors. most of the time i run the pump at 3/4 speed.

the good thing is you can vary the speed with no issues. so if you have been doing part boxes all day then do a few pallets of very full boxes, you can just crank the pump speed up with no issues.

 

i find it does a very good job of cleaning the honey, except that it lets through wax thats under the filter size. we have a 200 mic filter (i think) and the tub gets a bit of sub 200 mic wax floating on top. in fact it gets mixed in with the usual honey foam.  i actually check the drums to see how much of this wax gets into the drums and found its next to nothing. its a very thin coating on top of the honey. 

nothing a packer won't filter out with ease.

 

recently we gave it a torture test. a customer brought in pallets of willow dew honey. this amount is a bit of a nightmare for spin floats because spin floats capture crystalline honey very well.

with the filter its a bit problematic as well because crystalline doesn't float to the top like wax does. we have had normal amounts through the filter previously without issue, but this was a huge amount of it.

in the end what i found worked well was to keep heat exchanger at normal, increase the speed of the filter cleaning, slow down the pump speed and keep opening the wax outlet often to get the crystalline out.  keep in mind this is 100% willow dew.

that crystalline honey then went through the wax press, the honey from that goes back though the filter.

overall i was surprised at how little crystalline was left in the wax from the wax press. with spin floats it builds up and is a lot to clean out. i wonder if the cleaning action of the filter somehow helps break up some of the crystalline honey.

this also comes with a 300w thermostatically heater wrap around half of it. i suspect this is to stop crystalline honey from sticking to the inside. something i think spin floats desperately need.

 

this came with a pressure gauge which will tell you if the filter is getting blocked up. in normal operation the pressure required to push honey through it is next to nothing provided its heated well enough. i've got it set to around mid 30's, typically 34 degrees is all it needs. going hotter doesn't really help unless your pumping big volumes. i'm actually running a bit cooler than what the spin float requires.

downside is you really need a pressure warning alarm because your not always watching the gauge and at one time it did clog, pressure rises rapidly and it blew a hose off.

 

cleaning should it get jammed is fairly easy. has a built in lifter to lift the motor off and then you pull the filter out. quick clean and pop it back in. only takes a few minutes.

 

so i've been comparing to it to our rather old BeeTech spin float.

the spin float was originally setup to handle all the wax, but like most spin floats they don't really handle wax well, especially if its comes in big chunks.

since we got the wax press which takes care of the cappings, the spin floats only handles the wax from the extractors. that makes it work a whole lot better.

 

spin float

pro's

very clean honey except on shutdown where a bit of wax gets in. other brands/models can have similar issues on startup.

 

cons's

big danger factor. a lot of weight standing up high, spinning at high speed. it has been known to throw a wobbly.

requires bolting to floor.

has complicated startup and shut down routines which take a while.  does not like sudden increases in pump speed.

bearings are an issue.

takes a fair bit of time to clean and then requires time to dry as water can get trapped in it.

noisy.

 

 

self cleaning filter

pro's

fairly insensitive to pump speeds. can slow down or speed up pump without issues unless you have massive amounts of crystalline honey.

cleans honey well enough

safe, it rotates cleaning blade internally and at very slow speed. no need to bolt it to the floor.

fast to startup and shutdown.

fairly easy to remove filter for cleaning.

quiet running

 

cons

bit of extra pipe work required and traps a bit of honey in it (which can be drained but is unprocessed) 

not quite as clean as spin float. foam and wax build up in the tank to be managed.

requires a wax press.

 

thanks to HD process for the rather long trail of it so i could work out the kinks.

i hope that helps someone.

We have had one for 5 years now and love it. Start up and shutdown is as simple as turning the switch on or off. Ours is the nz made model which required significant modification to get working well whereas the Chinese model works straight out of the box. We run a 100 micron filter in ours. One thing to consider is a 100 micron slot is different to a 100 micron mesh.

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40 minutes ago, Jamo said:

We have had one for 5 years now and love it. Start up and shutdown is as simple as turning the switch on or off. Ours is the nz made model which required significant modification to get working well whereas the Chinese model works straight out of the box. We run a 100 micron filter in ours. One thing to consider is a 100 micron slot is different to a 100 micron mesh.

i'll get some pic of it. would be good to compare. also i really need to do a diagram of the hose setup. thats quite important part of the setup.

 

i did see pics years ago of a filter setup that was really weird. it had dual pumps. i have no idea why.

 

i did actually forget to mention the pumps. we run a progressive cavity pump which works great and are cable of good pressure.

however i found you really don't need ,much pressure so the filter should work well ok with the common low pressure vane pumps most people have.

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we found that a flexible vein pump didn't produce enough pressure, they are only good for 15 - 20 psi. we now run one of peters sliding vein pumps and pipes tend to pop pipes at about 60 psi, long before the pump stops pumping.

the filter normally runs about 7-15 psi but of course is affected by many things, temp, pump speed, filter speed, granulation.

will try to get some photos of our setup some time soon.

is your filter the type that has stationary screen  that blades rotate around? ours is the opposite.

 

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18 hours ago, Jamo said:

we found that a flexible vein pump didn't produce enough pressure, they are only good for 15 - 20 psi. we now run one of peters sliding vein pumps and pipes tend to pop pipes at about 60 psi, long before the pump stops pumping.

the filter normally runs about 7-15 psi but of course is affected by many things, temp, pump speed, filter speed, granulation.

will try to get some photos of our setup some time soon.

is your filter the type that has stationary screen  that blades rotate around? ours is the opposite.

 

i think its fixed screen and moving blades. sometimes you see the pressure bounce as the blade goes past the inlet.

pressure wise, i typically run it at a few psi and most of that is caused by the pipe setup ie the pressure is to pump the honey up the outlet rather than through the screen. it doesn't need pressure at all to work. in fact i find that pressure can have an opposite effect. i think the wax gets pushed into the screen to much which creates a blockage. with low pressure the wax just floats away from the screen.

i was running the pump slow today and it was at sub 1 psi for most of the day. at full pump speed i think i hit about 3 psi.

 

usually i only need 10 -15 psi to push jammed up wax out. if i left it way to long, the wax has dried out and doesn't want to go out. i can close the honey outlet valve and the back pressure pushes the wax up and out.

 

one thing i had forgotten about is that the old spin float is basically gravity fed, the honey just drops into it and the self cleaning filter is pressure fed.

there is a small issue when you need to reverse the pump. not a problem with the spin float but with the filter it sucks back all the wax thats collected in it. that can cause blockages in the heat exchanger.

why reverse the pump? thats to stop heat soak into the honey and over heat it when the pump is stopped. also if its stopped for a long time the wax in honey floats to the top and can create a bung which can block up the heat exchanger. 

 

to be able to reverse the pump without sucking wax back out of the filter you need a small air break. this is a simple one way valve at a high point after the heat exchanger. this allows air to be sucked.

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Great info thanks, I've just set up a small basic honey plant of my own and am putting this years kanuka crop through it at the moment. Currently just pricking frames and using a boutlje rotary sieve for removing wax, problem being this gravity sieves honey to just 1000 microns. So I've been investigating whether to add a spin float, and filter centrifuge or a self cleaning filter like you've just described to further filter the honey. 

 

I have a flexible impeller type pump so low pressure. Also the whole plant is run off a solar power set up so the lower the energy consumption the better. The plant is run through a 6kw inverter off the solar and I have a 7kva generator for back up if need be.

 

What do you reckon @tristan what filter set up would you go for? Or anyone else for that matter?

 

Thanks

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10 hours ago, Harlan Cox said:

Great info thanks, I've just set up a small basic honey plant of my own and am putting this years kanuka crop through it at the moment. Currently just pricking frames and using a boutlje rotary sieve for removing wax, problem being this gravity sieves honey to just 1000 microns. So I've been investigating whether to add a spin float, and filter centrifuge or a self cleaning filter like you've just described to further filter the honey. 

 

I have a flexible impeller type pump so low pressure. Also the whole plant is run off a solar power set up so the lower the energy consumption the better. The plant is run through a 6kw inverter off the solar and I have a 7kva generator for back up if need be.

 

What do you reckon @tristan what filter set up would you go for? Or anyone else for that matter?

 

Thanks

what are you using to deal with the scrapings, bridging etc?

 

realistically, both spin float and filter still use a wax press to deal with the big bulky wax.

even with just pricking you still have big stuff that needs dealing with. so a small wax press is the first thing.how big depends on if you are decapping or just pricking.

for pricking only setup, the wax press is used very little so not much power usage.

 

for a low power situation, a self cleaning filter would be the best. simply due to the small motor size it has (i think its 250 watts ?? plus 300 watt for the heater ). spin floats have substantially larger motors. i'm not sure what is on the non-wax cutting type spin floats (which is the best spin float for small setups).

one issue ,might be if the speed controllers will run off your inverter power.

 

what pricker are you running?

manual or semi? the semi's usually use compressed air. making sure you have an efficient compressed air setup will save a lot of power.

 

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Thanks for that. Yes the speed controllers run fine off my power source - the variable speed drives on the extractors work perfectly- so no worries there. For bigger chunks of comb I've been saving up then filling cappings bags that then fit into an extractor, and spinning the honey out. It's actually working really well. I have a Boutelje semi automatic pricker and two older Lyson 8 frame extractors that I've had fully reconditioned, they actually work really well too while being fairly lightly built. The honey drains from the extractors to a single sump from which I pump it up into the rotary sieve which is located on the top of a vat. The rotary sieve is set up on a timer and rotates 270 degrees every three minutes - it rocks back and forth.

 

With just me in the plant I'm only doing about 60 boxes a day at the moment, which is about right for the rotary sieve as it has a fair bit of wax in it by this stage. I leave that switched on over night and by morning I have a good collection of sticky cappings that has the majority of honey drained out.

 

I have a pretty good mid sized compressor for running the pricker, everything runs off the solar no trouble the only issue is heating. I'll be putting in a solar hot water set up this winter with radiator type heaters in the clean room to keep everything warm.

 

Sounds like the self cleaning filter might be the go for me for further cleaning of honey that's been  through the sieve? I guess I could set up the sieve so I'm pumping through it when I am drumming off .

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7 minutes ago, Harlan Cox said:

Thanks for that. Yes the speed controllers run fine off my power source - the variable speed drives on the extractors work perfectly- so no worries there. For bigger chunks of comb I've been saving up then filling cappings bags that then fit into an extractor, and spinning the honey out. It's actually working really well. I have a Boutelje semi automatic pricker and two older Lyson 8 frame extractors that I've had fully reconditioned, they actually work really well too while being fairly lightly built. The honey drains from the extractors to a single sump from which I pump it up into the rotary sieve which is located on the top of a vat. The rotary sieve is set up on a timer and rotates 270 degrees every three minutes - it rocks back and forth.

 

With just me in the plant I'm only doing about 60 boxes a day at the moment, which is about right for the rotary sieve as it has a fair bit of wax in it by this stage. I leave that switched on over night and by morning I have a good collection of sticky cappings that has the majority of honey drained out.

 

I have a pretty good mid sized compressor for running the pricker, everything runs off the solar no trouble the only issue is heating. I'll be putting in a solar hot water set up this winter with radiator type heaters in the clean room to keep everything warm.

 

Sounds like the self cleaning filter might be the go for me for further cleaning of honey that's been  through the sieve? I guess I could set up the sieve so I'm pumping through it when I am drumming off .

how old is the pricker?

the early ones have back to front cam plates which waste a fair bit of air. even if you have the later ones i would look at improving it to save air. it will make a big difference to your power system. compressed air is highly inefficient and wastes huge amounts of power. if your restricted on power then its very worth while to optimize the compressed air.

i guess you do not have an heat exchanger. that might be an issue with the filter or spin float. it will have to run slow. thick sticky honey does not like to separate from the wax.

i typically have 34c as my minimum temp. with really sticky honey it needs to go up.

 

i would not bother running anything through the sieve. run it all through the filter, then put the wax from that (which has a fair bit of honey with it) into your cappings bags with any big stuff.

most beeks i know would not be happy with using cappings bags. they like the wax to be dry as possible. the other issue is how the cappings bags handle crystalline honey.

but if it works fine for you.

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