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Document The European Black Bee

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On 8/03/2019 at 7:33 AM, Markypoo said:

I've got workers in my hives that look exactly like that.

 

Hairless shiny bees can be a sign of Chronic Bee Paralysis Virus. (!)

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17 hours ago, Dennis Crowley said:

Yes but only carnie bee seman came

True

16 hours ago, Alastair said:

Meerkatt may have been referring to Caucasians, which were illegally imported in the early 70's.

Are there many around today, or were they eliminated/bred out? 

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53 minutes ago, Ruche said:

Are there many around today, or were they eliminated/bred out? 

How can anyone  tell ?

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They were bred, and queens of them advertised for sale by private advertisements. Now though, as we do not have bees showing pure Caucasian characteristics, can probably assume that their genetics has been absorbed into the general mix, there was never a heckuva lot of them.

 

A few years ago i had a hive that built a massive gob of propolis blocking the entire entrance down to a few bees wide. Had to wonder if there was a bit of Caucasian in that one.

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Posted (edited)
22 minutes ago, yesbut said:

 

 

Edited by Ruche

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Posted (edited)
15 hours ago, AdamD said:

Hairless shiny bees can be a sign of Chronic Bee Paralysis Virus. (!)

Who said they were hairless or shiny?

Edit: I got it. Nah I meant I have bees that look like all the other girls apart from colour. Not many I grant you.

 

 

Edited by Markypoo

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Still have black bees on Stewart island it seems. 

 

I had some queens which came from West coast  area around 7 years back which were claimed to be Caucasian. They were gentle and used a lot of propolis. The queens and the bees were very dark. So they may have been Caucasian. Apparently the beekeepers was building up an isolated apiary just to keep them going.

 He did mention that he had black bees also and they were doing better than his Italian at that time. 

 

 

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Was in the school hives this weekend putting in OA staples and nicking honey. Got some shots showing how dark they can be. This is from one of @David Yanke queens. Grafted from an AI queen and open mated. Lots of variation. 

black carni 2.JPG

black carni.JPG

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5 hours ago, Markypoo said:

Was in the school hives this weekend putting in OA staples and nicking honey. Got some shots showing how dark they can be. This is from one of @David Yanke queens. Grafted from an AI queen and open mated. Lots of variation. 

black carni 2.JPG

black carni.JPG

Yep a few different coloured Drones contributed their genetics.The Black bee is most likely exhibiting paralysis virus (not sure which one though).

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Posted (edited)
5 minutes ago, dansar said:

Yep a few different coloured Drones contributed their genetics.The Black bee is most likely exhibiting paralysis virus (not sure which one though).

That was my initial thought , but she ‘looks ‘ too ‘healthy ‘. She is plump and in correct proportions .

What do you reckon ?

Edited by M4tt

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3 minutes ago, M4tt said:

That was my initial thought , but she ‘looks ‘ too ‘healthy ‘. She is plump and in correct proportions .

What do you reckon ?

Dunno I’ve had them in my hives looking like that and the other type that are half yellow half black on the abdomen

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3 minutes ago, dansar said:

Dunno I’ve had them in my hives looking like that and the other type that are half yellow half black on the abdomen

Same here , but mine never have any hair. Like you said , possibly a different virus .

That solid black abdomen is eye catching 

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1 minute ago, M4tt said:

Same here , but mine never have any hair. Like you said , possibly a different virus .

That solid black abdomen is eye catching 

I have looked up BPV videos. It was not like that. It was flew in as I after I opened the hive and was racing around quite fast/normally.

Assuming it is a BPV, can anybody direct me to a good source of info about it.

 

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2 minutes ago, Markypoo said:

I have looked up BPV videos. It was not like that. It was flew in as I after I opened the hive and was racing around quite fast/normally.

Assuming it is a BPV, can anybody direct me to a good source of info about it.

 

The one I’m familiar with is called Chronic Bee Paralysis Virus 

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5 minutes ago, Markypoo said:

I have looked up BPV videos. It was not like that. It was flew in as I after I opened the hive and was racing around quite fast/normally.

Assuming it is a BPV, can anybody direct me to a good source of info about it.

 

Look up Chronic Bee Paralysis Virus “CBPV”. Type 2 CBPV shows bees similar to the black one you have in the second photo.

http://www.nationalbeeunit.com/downloadDocument.cfm?id=1258

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1 hour ago, Markypoo said:

I have looked up BPV videos. It was not like that. It was flew in as I after I opened the hive and was racing around quite fast/normally.

Assuming it is a BPV, can anybody direct me to a good source of info about it.

 

 

Mark i think that for the first day or so the bee can act reasonably normally, but as it's infection worsens it gets the other behaviours plus fights with other bees as they try to evict it.

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I will have to keep an eye on the hive then. From the research I did last night, sounds like there is not too much I can do about it. However I am not entirely convinced that it is a not colour variation. I have found a number of posts on foreign bee forums querying all black bees in carniolan hives. The consensus seems to be that they are a result of natural variation and may be older bees in which the hair has worn off the abdomen (which explains why my ones still have a hairy thorax. By the sounds of it I will have a number of dead bees in a few weeks if it is a virus.

 

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Whatever it turns out to be, you are correct, there is nothing you can do. Mostly the hives clean themselves up in time, and that, combined with nothing you can do anyway, is why most beekeepers don't know much about this issue as it's not something can be actioned.

 

However occassionally these infections can get really bad, here's a video of one of my hives with a very bad case, and thousands of dead and dying bees out front. This hive more or less recovered, then, got it again plus passed it to the hive next door. But eventually both recovered and are now completely normal hives.

 

 

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Its had it since before xmas at the very least, when it was a nuc. If it is a virus.

I still claim its an older field bee with abdomen fluff worn off. But I'm not losing any sleep over it if it cant be treated and may cure itself.

 

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On 18/03/2019 at 8:36 AM, dansar said:

Look up Chronic Bee Paralysis Virus “CBPV”. Type 2 CBPV shows bees similar to the black one you have in the second photo.

http://www.nationalbeeunit.com/downloadDocument.cfm?id=1258

You beat me to it.

 

Markypoo, your black bee doesn't have the shineyness I would expect to see from a sick girl - it looks healthy from the photo.

 

Bees walking away from the hive is a tell-tale sign of a problem. For me, there seems to be a co-incidence with high varroa load late summer, so I would treat for varroa as soon as possible if I saw signs of CBPV. Although the CBPV is not vectored by varroa, I wonder if by removing the varroa and the viruses assoicated with them, it allows the colony to recover as there are just less viruses for the bees to deal with?

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On 18/03/2019 at 9:36 PM, dansar said:

Look up Chronic Bee Paralysis Virus “CBPV”. Type 2 CBPV shows bees similar to the black one you have in the second photo.

http://www.nationalbeeunit.com/downloadDocument.cfm?id=1258

if its any help, i had a hives suffer from some thing like this for two seasons, this year it seems to have kicked the virus and has done really well, 

every time in the past when i checked this hives there where a large number of bees covering the ground, they lost so many

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On 19/03/2019 at 9:45 AM, Alastair said:

Whatever it turns out to be, you are correct, there is nothing you can do

 

i read the below here https://www.vita-europe.com/beehealth/blog/chronic-bee-paralysis/ i cant imagine how he prevented the bees from mingling on the ground... either spread them over a wide area or used a very small heading dog:-)

 

Two years later in a different apiary 40 km away, CBPV showed up again. Research by then had indicated that bee-to-bee contact transmitted the disease, so Neel hatched a cunning plan. He caged the queen and separated her from the colony. He then moved the brood box 50 metres away and took out the frames, but returned the beeless box to the original stand after scorching the inside to sterilise it. He then shook every last bee from the frames (50 metres away) and the bees that could fly returned to the original brood box site. He was careful not to let the bees mingle on the ground which might have aided further bee-to-bee transmission. So, the healthy flying bees returned to the original spot and the queen re-introduced. The CBPV bees, incapable of flight, did not return to the colony. He cl;eared up the dead and dying bees in the vicinity so that further reinfection could be minimised. The colonies survived and went on to produce a good harvest.

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I have seen chronic bee paralysis Virus severely affecting a few hives in England but I have never seen that sort of problem in New Zealand. Sure you see the odd polished up bee that might be due to chronic bee paralysis but is just as likely from robbing.It may well be in New Zealand but I haven't seen it.

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My hives never have many dead bees out in front.  There are a few cunning old blackbirds that visit regularly for a feed!

 

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On 28/03/2019 at 10:34 AM, john berry said:

I have seen chronic bee paralysis Virus severely affecting a few hives in England but I have never seen that sort of problem in New Zealand. Sure you see the odd polished up bee that might be due to chronic bee paralysis but is just as likely from robbing.It may well be in New Zealand but I haven't seen it.

i saw a couple of hives with mats of dead paralysis bees out front in dunedin about five years back. They recovered.

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