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MikeyJB

What has gone on here?

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12 hours ago, Trevor Gillbanks said:

Looking at this photo.  It has a lot of drone brood cells.  The only sign of anything in this hive is old pollen.

There are a few dead brood.   This was a very weak hive that got moved and it was probably dead before it left the north.

By the look of the cells, the robbers have torn out any stores that was in the hive.

 

As @Alistair has stated, the queen was probably not alive or at least did not survive the move.

 

A friendly bit of advice.  If you want to run an experiment and you cannot get to regularly check the progress of the hive, then what is the point of moving a hive several hours away that you have not looked at for 3 months and are still some time away from looking at it.

 

Sorry for the loss

It was two months that i couldnt get there. It was queen right with a strong brood pattern and fresh eggs the night before it left- its this actuality then the quick demise which is what is puzzling to Alistair. None of my other hives from the apiary it came through have any sign of burdensome disease including wax moth

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1 hour ago, tristan said:

 

 

nah it was stuffed. i would use other terms but i might get banned for that ;) 

a single 3/4 brood is way undersized, if its was any good it would have swarmed. to come out of northland season like that means it was even worse when it started.

could have been poor queen, diseases, mites etc. 

no beekeeper would waste their time and effort shifting one that bad.

 

@MikeyJB you seriously need to go look at some good hives and understand what is a good hive.

this is the first thing i teach new staff. what is a poor hive and whats good. you will never be a good beekeeper if you don't know what good is.

you need to set your standards a lot higher.

I would of liked to of got it going better, which is why i sent it to Auckland. There was a dump of 200 hives 1.5km from the apiary it came from and the main bush flow up here is not that long at all.

It seems a lot of beekeepers move there hives up to the far north now to try and get the flow from the earlier warmer weather, unfortunately all the competition for nectar and pollen has made the quality of hives go markedly down. Hives in areas without Manuka are doing well but with Manuka so widespread up here you can be almost guaranteed there are more hives you just cant see. I see the typical beekeepers Ford Rangers many times a day where-ever i go. Ten years ago it was just me.

They are now planting manuka all around Morewera and are saying its going to save the town. That manuka crop will get taken too quicker than a fifty note dropped on the ground

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10 minutes ago, MikeyJB said:

It was two months that i couldnt get there. It was queen right with a strong brood pattern and fresh eggs the night before it left- its this actuality then the quick demise which is what is puzzling to Alistair. None of my other hives from the apiary it came through have any sign of burdensome disease including wax moth

how did the move and subsequent hive siting take place? wonder if something could have gone wrong during that process

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2 minutes ago, tommy dave said:

how did the move and subsequent hive siting take place? wonder if something could have gone wrong during that process

Yes im wondering if heat may of somehow hurt the queen, i dont have aircon in my car so they were busy fanning away for three hours. I can definitely do with some advice on that.

Ive only ever really moved early morning or night but i couldnt unfortunately on this move. 

Perhaps i need a grill on top to keep them in but allow much more airflow. Perhaps the queen dies/becomes infertile at a certain temp. Maybe the eggs become unviable too and lead to a malformed queen.

Thanks

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5 minutes ago, MikeyJB said:

Yes im wondering if heat may of somehow hurt the queen, i dont have aircon in my car so they were busy fanning away for three hours. I can definitely do with some advice on that.

Ive only ever really moved early morning or night but i couldnt unfortunately on this move. 

Perhaps i need a grill on top to keep them in but allow much more airflow. Perhaps the queen dies/becomes infertile at a certain temp. Maybe the eggs become unviable too and lead to a malformed queen.

Thanks

sounds like it was the move that did it. Which is actually fairly good news vs the alternatives. I've never moved hives inside a car during a hot day for more than a few minutes travel, but i've considered a few options if that came up. Mostly around making spacers with beeproof mesh and putting them both below and above the hive body = one above the base and  onebelow the hive mat if that makes sense. So, allowing cooling behaviour by the bees, but not bee carnage in the car. Haven't tried it though!

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18 minutes ago, tommy dave said:

sounds like it was the move that did it. Which is actually fairly good news vs the alternatives. I've never moved hives inside a car during a hot day for more than a few minutes travel, but i've considered a few options if that came up. Mostly around making spacers with beeproof mesh and putting them both below and above the hive body = one above the base and  onebelow the hive mat if that makes sense. So, allowing cooling behaviour by the bees, but not bee carnage in the car. Haven't tried it though!

I can tell you that bees generally don't bother the driver, but they do coat the windows with a thick layer of hymenoptera.

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1 hour ago, MikeyJB said:

One of his friends lives across the road so i can also set one up there

Is that a good idea given the early indications there may be a not-so-bee-friendly neighbour ?

 

Re moving the hive- there is a relatively recent thread about moving a hive some distance by vehicle- could be of assistance to you, but I cant find it with my quick search.

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2 hours ago, MikeyJB said:

I would of liked to of got it going better, which is why i sent it to Auckland. There was a dump of 200 hives 1.5km from the apiary it came from and the main bush flow up here is not that long at all.

your missing the whole point here. if nature doesn't provide, you do. its up to you to get them into shape

 

2 hours ago, MikeyJB said:

Ten years ago it was just me.

are you saying you have been beekeeping for 10 years? 

 

this is starting to sound like one of the classic traps of beekeeping. there is often a long time between cause and effect.

in this case it sounds like hive was already dead before it was shifted and its condition was not recognized.

 

poor quality frames

lack of understanding of quality frames

lack of understanding hive size

lack of feeding

lack of decent transport

lack of inspection

 

do you get it ??

 

 

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I have not read all the posts as they seem to be going off subject after 1 1/2 pages. I note that you inspected the hive close to the time of shifting, and all was well inside. A good brood pattern, laying queen, strong bee numbers - all good. 

The complaint from a neighbour worries me, as does the pattern of brown damp looking spots on the floor entrance. I have seen this before, it is a sure sign of the bees landing after feeding from a poison trap. Their feet and lower bodies have been touching a tacky poison probably laced with honey or sugar to attract the bees. They carry it back to the hive and upon landing a good portion is shaken off or preened off before entering. If the hive died over several days then the deceased are cleaned out by the house bees. I have seen this same residue on my hives after a neighbour decided that he didn't want my bees flying over his house anymore. His poison trap killed 85 of my top breeders that were on my farm, being prepared for splitting.

If I were you I would take scrapings of this substance and samples of dead bees, wax and wood-ware where the bees walk the most, and get them to an appropriate laboratory for analysis. If it is poison then you may have to destroy all of the gear because if you use it again you may poison the next lot of bees.

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If it was poison, wouldn't there be dead bees with their tongue out?

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1 hour ago, Sailabee said:

If it was poison, wouldn't there be dead bees with their tongue out?

 

Dead bees out front and dead brood also .

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It can be surprising how quickly hives can go downhill. I was taking off the last of the honey and putting strips into hives that were done five weeks ago and one hive was just a couple of frames of bees and no honey or Queen. The rest of the yard was fine . I don't know what happened to this  hive but I do know what it was like five weeks ago because I marked it as a potential breeder being the best hive in the whole yard. I suspect it was robbed out which wouldn't be surprising as some   ---------- has dumped 40 hives not far away.

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20 hours ago, Old Timer said:

I have not read all the posts as they seem to be going off subject after 1 1/2 pages. I note that you inspected the hive close to the time of shifting, and all was well inside. A good brood pattern, laying queen, strong bee numbers - all good. 

The complaint from a neighbour worries me, as does the pattern of brown damp looking spots on the floor entrance. I have seen this before, it is a sure sign of the bees landing after feeding from a poison trap. Their feet and lower bodies have been touching a tacky poison probably laced with honey or sugar to attract the bees. They carry it back to the hive and upon landing a good portion is shaken off or preened off before entering. If the hive died over several days then the deceased are cleaned out by the house bees. I have seen this same residue on my hives after a neighbour decided that he didn't want my bees flying over his house anymore. His poison trap killed 85 of my top breeders that were on my farm, being prepared for splitting.

If I were you I would take scrapings of this substance and samples of dead bees, wax and wood-ware where the bees walk the most, and get them to an appropriate laboratory for analysis. If it is poison then you may have to destroy all of the gear because if you use it again you may poison the next lot of bees.

the complaint was less than a week before the hive was noticed dead. No brood in the hive. Suggests something other than poison.

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On 6/03/2019 at 9:59 PM, Old Timer said:

I have not read all the posts as they seem to be going off subject after 1 1/2 pages. I note that you inspected the hive close to the time of shifting, and all was well inside. A good brood pattern, laying queen, strong bee numbers - all good. 

The complaint from a neighbour worries me, as does the pattern of brown damp looking spots on the floor entrance. I have seen this before, it is a sure sign of the bees landing after feeding from a poison trap. Their feet and lower bodies have been touching a tacky poison probably laced with honey or sugar to attract the bees. They carry it back to the hive and upon landing a good portion is shaken off or preened off before entering. If the hive died over several days then the deceased are cleaned out by the house bees. I have seen this same residue on my hives after a neighbour decided that he didn't want my bees flying over his house anymore. His poison trap killed 85 of my top breeders that were on my farm, being prepared for splitting.

If I were you I would take scrapings of this substance and samples of dead bees, wax and wood-ware where the bees walk the most, and get them to an appropriate laboratory for analysis. If it is poison then you may have to destroy all of the gear because if you use it again you may poison the next lot of bees.

Thank you for this and sorry to hear of your loss. Any idea what specifically the poison is that goes brown? 

 

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On 7/03/2019 at 5:09 PM, john berry said:

It can be surprising how quickly hives can go downhill. I was taking off the last of the honey and putting strips into hives that were done five weeks ago and one hive was just a couple of frames of bees and no honey or Queen. The rest of the yard was fine . I don't know what happened to this  hive but I do know what it was like five weeks ago because I marked it as a potential breeder being the best hive in the whole yard. I suspect it was robbed out which wouldn't be surprising as some   ---------- has dumped 40 hives not far away.

Interesting to hear about the hive dump. Is that in Hawkes Bay? Are you having overstocking problems there too?

It was interesting watching the beehive prices on trademe last year. About this period in the cycle they crashed to the lowest ive ever seen. I wonder if the modest recovery in prices seen this year is somewhat of a dead cat bounce. A lot of processors havent being able to sell their honey stock so a backlog is going on and processors arent buying from producers. I suspect the high price in shops has finally affected demand

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On 7/03/2019 at 6:44 PM, tommy dave said:

the complaint was less than a week before the hive was noticed dead. No brood in the hive. Suggests something other than poison.

Yes the no brood is quite telling, wasps wouldnt of cleaned them out like that. It would be of interest to test that brown stuff just in case. Who knows, double diagnosis is of course still in the mix

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On 6/03/2019 at 9:59 PM, Old Timer said:

I have not read all the posts

it pays to read them all as the critical info is in there.

 

On 6/03/2019 at 9:59 PM, Old Timer said:

I note that you inspected the hive close to the time of shifting, and all was well inside. A good brood pattern, laying queen, strong bee numbers - all good. 

thats not the case at all. it was most likely a very weak hive with low amounts of brood. certainly not good.

you need to read the posts.

 

On 6/03/2019 at 9:59 PM, Old Timer said:

the pattern of brown damp looking spots on the floor entrance.

is nothing more than hive debris mixed with a bit of rain. pretty standard with dead outs.

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Did you get any further with this Mikey?

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