Jump to content
tristan

afb bonfire

Recommended Posts

just a reminder to check for afb.

 

i'm just hearing about someone who bought 20 hives (at a rather high price), they got inspected by an AP2 and they burnt the lot.

not only does loosing $8-10k in hives hurt but i understand they have to pay for the fire brigade to come out and monitor the burning. theres no fire permits at the mo due to fire ban.

of course we have hives all around that location. no word on if any where dead before inspection.

 

as always it pays to inspect before you buy.

 

  • Sad 5

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Did the owner of the ashes pay an ever-so-polite return visit to the seller?

 

Have heard some tragic stories of AFB being introduced into otherwise clean or new operations due to either unscrupulous or completely ignorant (which is worse?) sellers.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, JohnF said:

Did the owner of the ashes pay an ever-so-polite return visit to the seller?

 

Have heard some tragic stories of AFB being introduced into otherwise clean or new operations due to either unscrupulous or completely ignorant (which is worse?) sellers.

 

Would they be completely ignorant buyers as well ?

  • Agree 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I’m certain there would be consumer protection, but obviously hard to sort out now that it, justifiably, all smoke & ashes

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
7 hours ago, frazzledfozzle said:

 

Would they be completely ignorant buyers as well ?

 

Yes.

Taken in by “experienced beekeeper, no AFB

  • Agree 1
  • Sad 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Can the mods add this emoji please 😡 or maybe 🤬

  • Agree 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It is frustrating that the vendors in these cases are not named and shamed. I knew of a case last season with 10 high priced nucs, all burners, and the vendor is able to continue under the cover of secrecy. I understand why the secrecy, but there has been too many around here selling AFB nucs some of which were caught as swarms from unknown hives and sold  as nucs in a month for example.

Fortunately in the industry shakedown, hobby beeks may be able to go back to getting starter nucs from within the group they belong to, with proper mentoring in the process. It is part of the problem that someone who was new to beekeeping thought it was OK to start with 10 or 20 nucs - sometimes many, many more, with the money but no real idea.

  • Agree 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Just a heads up for anyone keeping bees in the poriati (hope I have spelt that right) area near Napier. There has been a robbed out AFB and this has caused an outbreak in the area.

When buying or selling hives there should always be an AFB agreement. This however needs a time limit as the seller has no control over someone putting infected gear onto the clean hive.

If someone sold me 20 hives which I had to burn I would have no hesitation in naming and shaming them. AP ones and AP2's are definitely covered by privacy laws but as far as I know individuals are not. There is nothing stopping me telling the world if I have foulbrood and certainly nothing to stop me saying where I bought the hives from.

  • Agree 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I agree @john berry, but one of the vagaries of Trademe is that often the sale is concluded in such a way that vendors real identity is not really known - in spite of having to now put a beek rego in the advert. Asure Quality will not tell you who owns a number - just supposing the rego given is correct.

  • Good Info 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, JohnF said:

 

Yes.

Taken in by “experienced beekeeper, no AFB

 

Looking at trademe It seems you only need to have kept bees for two or three years to be called experienced.

Cetainly if the nucs developed AFB within two or three months of purchase and the nucs had been hived into new gear it’s most likely come from the seller.

 

but I do think the buyer has to take some responsibility to inspect any hives before purchase.

So many new beekeepers who came into the business with no idea about bees and started with 20-50-100 hives were really pushing the limits.

  • Agree 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
10 hours ago, tristan said:

they have to pay for the fire brigade to come out and monitor the burning. theres no fire permits at the mo due to fire ban.

 

 

I heard second hand that there was a burning last week on the Awhitu peninsular (south west of Auckland) that happened in the evening. The local fire brigade came out and there was much gnashing of teeth due to the fire ban. MPI and fire brigade rowing etc.

The DECA course made it very clear to me that the need to burn overrules fireban rules, but you have to wonder about that a bit. At a minimum a call to the local fire brigade would seem a good idea.

 

However, it’s a second hand story, so the real version may be significantly different.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I agree it’s frustrating - not least because it tars all sellers (including me) with the same brush.

 

The problem with finger pointing with regards AFB is where do you draw the line. How soon after sale could a new hive or nuc theoretically contract AFB from its new location. Of course all experienced beekeepers will have a view on that, but it would be an interesting one to defend in court.

 

for us we’ve only had one instance where we were notified by the new owner of an issue, some 8 months after purchase. They destroyed those hives and we replaced them free of charge as a matter of course.  I wasn’t at all confident it was our issue, couldn’t find AFB in any nucs from the same location, but replaced them regardless as part of looking after our customer.  No issue reported with the replacements.

 

Like anything in life, there are those trying to build a business (which if you want it to work long term you have to act responsibly) and those who see an opportunity to make a quick buck.  Caveat emptor for sure 

  • Like 4

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The cases I'm referring to are not Trade Me . . direct seller to buyer. Lawyers' letters rapidly followed the AFB discovery, with threats of law suits and more with any 'naming' that might be done.

These were nucs transferred into all brand new gear . . .

  • Thanks 1
  • Good Info 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, cBank said:

 

I heard second hand that there was a burning last week on the Awhitu peninsular (south west of Auckland) that happened in the evening. The local fire brigade came out and there was much gnashing of teeth due to the fire ban. MPI and fire brigade rowing etc.

The DECA course made it very clear to me that the need to burn overrules fireban rules, but you have to wonder about that a bit. At a minimum a call to the local fire brigade would seem a good idea.

 

However, it’s a second hand story, so the real version may be significantly different.

I would think one would need a seriously large and comprehensive public liability cover to even contemplate a bonfire at the moment . The cost of firefighting isn’t cheap these days . Why not just shrink wrap the suckers and burn them later . 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, Jas said:

I would think one would need a seriously large and comprehensive public liability cover to even contemplate a bonfire at the moment . The cost of firefighting isn’t cheap these days . Why not just shrink wrap the suckers and burn them later . 

The law states it must be burned in 7 days. 

Would need a law change. 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Can't you apply for exemption to AFB PMP if conditions not appropriate for burning immediately?

It is also something that could be covered in your DECA?  ie will burn within 7 days unless fire conditions make it dangerous to do so, in which case kill bees, wrap and store to prevent any bees entering ?

  • Agree 4

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Jas said:

I would think one would need a seriously large and comprehensive public liability cover to even contemplate a bonfire at the moment . The cost of firefighting isn’t cheap these days . Why not just shrink wrap the suckers and burn them later . 

Here in canterbury we currently have a fire ban, however if I need to burn AFB I can apply for a special permit to do so, this is dependent on meeting certain criteria. 

We have successfully applied for permits to burn AFB during fire bans in the past. 

  • Agree 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
10 minutes ago, JohnF said:

Can't you apply for exemption to AFB PMP if conditions not appropriate for burning immediately?

It is also something that could be covered in your DECA?  ie will burn within 7 days unless fire conditions make it dangerous to do so, in which case kill bees, wrap and store to prevent any bees entering ?

 

This is what is taught at the course, and if in doubt, contact them.

 

to quote their website:

Legal obligations

Legally, AFB colonies should be killed and burnt, within seven days of being found. They should be burnt at the apiary. However, it is not possible to burn hives at some apiary sites and in some seasons, because of fire restrictions. For this reason, it is possible to get permission from the AFB Management Agency to store infected hives until they can be safely burnt. This is sometimes specified in a beekeeper’s DECA.

It is important that the contents of hives are destroyed as soon as possible as they are a significant source of cross-infection. Some beekeepers are not good at burning hives within the specified time.

Beehives with AFB should be killed and burnt as quickly as possible.

 

https://afb.org.nz/burning-afb-colonies/

Edited by cBank
  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On ‎14‎/‎02‎/‎2019 at 10:25 AM, nikki watts said:

The law states it must be burned in 7 days. 

Would need a law change. 

 

You can get something written into your DECA.

 

A large beekeeper i know of has an AFB room. During times of fireban or whatever other reason they cannot burn immediately, infected material is stored in this room until it can be safely burned.

 

I recall a few years back, and the news report was linked on this forum, a beekeeper burning AFB during fire ban season, set fire to surrounding bush and it became a major requiring helicopters and a lot of manpower. Never found out if he was covered by insurance, but if he wasn't, probably would have ruined him.

 

Pays to keep that type of thing in mind.

  • Agree 1
  • Good Info 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On ‎13‎/‎02‎/‎2019 at 9:40 PM, tristan said:

just a reminder to check for afb.

 

And about that, as it applies to honey harvest. The bottom line for most beekeepers in this day and age, is you just never know if your bees may have been exposed to AFB in the recent past. In my view it is essential that hives are checked for AFB at honey harvest, nothing worse then finding AFB in a hive after harvest but by that time you have lost track of the honey boxes that came off it.

 

I thought this was standard procedure, but apparently not. I caught up with an old friend who has worked for 2 different corporates in the last 2 seasons, he was middle of the honey harvest. I asked him about their methods, and how they do the AFB check. He told me there is no AFB check they just take the honey. I expressed that in my view that is dangerous in a big outfit and they will never eliminate AFB if they do that, he agreed. I asked if they have much AFB in their outfit, his reply was "yeah, heaps".

 

For small hobbyists who know exactly what frames came off what hives, you probably do not need to do an AFB check when you take the honey. But for everyone else, if we want to even have a shot at eliminating AFB, an inspection at harvest is a must.

Edited by Alastair
  • Agree 4
  • Good Info 2
  • Sad 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I do wonder, and I’m sure I’ve seen it here before, why there isn’t a requirement to have honey checked and if AFB present it’s not able to be sold/purchased. Not the solution, but it’s good to “incentivise best practice”

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 13/02/2019 at 10:42 PM, JohnF said:

Did the owner of the ashes pay an ever-so-polite return visit to the seller?

i have no idea.

 

sorry but i'm flat out with extraction. work is looking into it a bit due to us having so many sites around the aera. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
9 hours ago, Alastair said:

I thought this was standard procedure, but apparently not. I caught up with an old friend who has worked for 2 different corporates in the last 2 seasons, he was middle of the honey harvest. I asked him about their methods, and how they do the AFB check. He told me there is no AFB check they just take the honey. I expressed that in my view that is dangerous in a big outfit and they will never eliminate AFB if they do that, he agreed. I asked if they have much AFB in their outfit, his reply was "yeah, heaps".

 

this sort of thing really needs to up the chain.

see if they can make checking for afb on harvest compulsory, ie add it to their deca etc.

  • Agree 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 14/02/2019 at 11:30 AM, JohnF said:

Can't you apply for exemption to AFB PMP if conditions not appropriate for burning immediately?

It is also something that could be covered in your DECA?  ie will burn within 7 days unless fire conditions make it dangerous to do so, in which case kill bees, wrap and store to prevent any bees entering ?

while they can, its an awfully big risk.

stored afb gear is a risky situation especially if dealing with beginners. its a lot better if they just find a more suitable location to burn them.

 

i've mentioned on here about a guy who started up over the fence from one of our sites. he lost his hives to afb (we lost about half of ours). his hives all seamed to disappear, but few years later he sells all his boxes, but no bases and lids. ie brood box, bases and lids went in the fire, the supers got extracted then sat in the shed, then got sold.

thats one of the issues with storage, it gets forgotten etc, or the need for cash arises......

 

imho this is one of the big issues going forward with the steam going out of the industry.  as crowds short cut to stay afloat or people bail and try to recoup as much as they can out of it.

  • Agree 4
  • Sad 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 14/02/2019 at 10:25 AM, nikki watts said:

Would need a law change. 

Maybe maybe not

It just means that you may have to explain to a judge why you chose to shrink wrap the Hives instead of burning them.

An outline of the wrapping procedure would probably aid your case.

I know what course Id take right now with a fire risk as it is.

There is a very real risk of substantial lose of property and life from a wild fire.

 

  • Like 1
  • Agree 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now

×
×
  • Create New...