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Frederick

Commodity Levy / Fight for the Industrys future?

RISK OF CLOSURE

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4 minutes ago, Frederick said:

Hey life's full of hurdles but with the commercial sector 'Co-operating' (unity might be stretching it!) I'm sure we can govern the bureaucrats!

 

Well im going to leave and watch a game of rugby.

iMO the ApiNZ administrative structure is already in place and all employment and management contracts will be well and truly locked up before any new levy voted board members get anywhere near the board table in 2020.

 

My favourite program a few years back was "Yes Minister". You can change the board (politicians) but you can't change the bureaucrats. 

I would like to change the structure before we give them $2 million dollars so my vote is still NO

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On 14/02/2019 at 6:45 PM, Frederick said:

Firstly who is this single 100,000 player

don't know, looks like i got it wrong. This from the 2017 apiculture monitoring report: https://landusenz.org.nz/wp-content/uploads/2018/03/2017-Apiculture-monitoring-report-FINAL.pdf

" Almost 40 percent of hives are managed by 37 enterprises, with the largest enterprise managing around 60,000 hives. "

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54 minutes ago, Frederick said:

 

Can't see any reason why pollinators, queen rearers and non manuka producers should sit on the board; 

 

 

Freudian slip @Frederick ?  😉

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On 16/02/2019 at 7:24 PM, tommy dave said:

don't know, looks like i got it wrong. This from the 2017 apiculture monitoring report: https://landusenz.org.nz/wp-content/uploads/2018/03/2017-Apiculture-monitoring-report-FINAL.pdf

" Almost 40 percent of hives are managed by 37 enterprises, with the largest enterprise managing around 60,000 hives. "

Good on you Tommy: There's a lot of smoke and mirrors surrounding hive no's. but then there's hives and 'HIVES'.

 

On 16/02/2019 at 7:26 PM, frazzledfozzle said:

 

Freudian slip @Frederick ?  😉

Frazz I've got a sore bum from sitting in front of the computer and my eyes/glasses are blurry: If that's the only slip I've made I'll be lucky! 

 

On 16/02/2019 at 7:23 PM, Bushy said:

 

Well im going to leave and watch a game of rugby.

iMO the ApiNZ administrative structure is already in place and all employment and management contracts will be well and truly locked up before any new levy voted board members get anywhere near the board table in 2020.

 

My favourite program a few years back was "Yes Minister". You can change the board (politicians) but you can't change the bureaucrats. 

I would like to change the structure before we give them $2 million dollars so my vote is still NO

Better to try from within than to think you're going to be acknowledge outside the walls!

Come on Bushy change you vote and help build something!

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3 hours ago, Trevor Gillbanks said:

 

I think it is quite disingenuous to accuse @Ali that someone is pulling her string.  Do you think you are the only one who is allowed an opinion.

 

 

Yes, but constantly asking the same ‘asked-and-answered-questions’ and twisting words is just trolling to provoke

 

2 hours ago, Frederick said:

Thanks for finally showing your colours Trevor: Be good to see some constructive SNI Group input as well

 

No, fair’s fair  @Frederick - Trevor did announce his intentions ( and that of SNI) a while back.

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Hey folks, while the debate about the levy is valuable it would be more constructive to talk about this without personal attacks which do not have any value. Please stay on the topic.

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2 minutes ago, Bron said:

Hey folks, while the debate about the levy is valuable it would be more constructive to talk about this without personal attacks which do not have any value. Please stay on the topic.

Passion killer

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18 minutes ago, JohnF said:

No, fair’s fair  @Frederick - Trevor did announce his intentions ( and that of SNI) a while back.

Thanks @JohnF  you are correct.  I have stated my position.  That is being more and more reinforced by the debate on here (No not debate) (dictatorship) by  Keith whenever someone disagrees with him.  However, he can express himself anyhow he likes. I name @Bushy @frazzledfozzle and specially @Ali as special targets.

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On 16/02/2019 at 8:56 PM, JohnF said:

 

Yes, but constantly asking the same ‘asked-and-answered-questions’ and twisting words is just trolling to provoke

 

 

No, fair’s fair  @Frederick - Trevor did announce his intentions ( and that of SNI) a while back.

Not worries wasn't aware of Trevor announcement (apologies Trevor) but was well aware of Trevor and SNI negative position: As I've stated earlier in this post I'd love them to engage and explain further!

 

On 16/02/2019 at 8:59 PM, Bron said:

Hey folks, while the debate about the levy is valuable it would be more constructive to talk about this without personal attacks which do not have any value. Please stay on the topic.

Crikey Bron agree 100% with you and John: No place for personal attacks nor the repetitive‘asked-and-answered-questions’ and twisting words bragade!

 

On 16/02/2019 at 9:18 PM, Trevor Gillbanks said:

Thanks @JohnF  you are correct.  I have stated my position.  That is being more and more reinforced by the debate on here (No not debate) (dictatorship) by  Keith whenever someone disagrees with him.  However, he can express himself anyhow he likes. I name @Bushy @frazzledfozzle and specially @Ali as special targets.

Not dictatorship Trevor: Read the message and talk to me! I haven't targeted anyone or anything but I won't tolerate incessant the 'the same ‘asked-and-answered-questions’ and twisting words' (thanks John) as put forward ad infinitum by some: If Bushy and Frazz have an issue with me and my message I'm sure they'll let me know; if Ali (and whoever) do, then I'm sure we'll see more of the same.

 

Trevor you seemed happy to back me when I was originally anti the Levy; why don't you engage with me now I'm looking for a positive way forward via a commercial sector run organisation: Or is it that SNI Group have decide that after a NO vote they'll ride in like white Knights (along with NZ Beekeeping Inc.) take over APINZ, appoint a new board and management, redo the Levy thing under the total control of beekeepers and ride off into the sunset with halo's in place!

 

Trevor the opportunity's already within the grasp of the commercial sector; I'm not attacking anyone personally and I'm not dictating, I'm just passionately requesting /asking those looking to vote NO give consideration to the positive course of action which I consider a YES vote will deliver.

 

 

 

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3 minutes ago, Frederick said:

Not dictatorship Trevor: Read the message and talk to me! I haven't targeted anyone or anything but I won't tolerate incessant the 'the same ‘asked-and-answered-questions’ and twisting words' (thanks John) as put forward ad infinitum by some: If Bushy and Frazz have an issue with me and my message I'm sure they'll let me know; if Ali (and whoever) do, then I'm sure we'll see more of the same.

 

Trevor you seemed happy to back me when I was originally anti the Levy; why don't you engage with me now I'm looking for a positive way forward via a commercial sector run organisation: Or is it that SNI Group have decide that after a NO vote they'll ride in like white Knights (along with NZ Beekeeping Inc.) take over APINZ, appoint a new board and management, redo the Levy thing under the total control of beekeepers and ride off into the sunset with halo's in place!

 

Trevor the opportunity's already within the grasp of the commercial sector; I'm not attacking anyone personally and I'm not dictating, I'm just passionately requesting /asking those looking to vote NO give consideration to the positive course of action which I consider a YES vote will deliver.

 

 

 

Beekeeping Inc on horses?!

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Just now, Margaret Anne said:

Beekeeping Inc on horses?!

I never said horses Margaret

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29 minutes ago, Frederick said:

if Ali (and whoever) do, then I'm sure we'll see more of the same.

He just doesn't seem to get it does he! Address the issues and can the personalised attacks is the message @Frederick.

Bullying comes to mind.............................

Vote NO

Edited by Ali

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5 minutes ago, Ali said:

He just doesn't seem to get it does he! Address the issues and can the personalised attacks is the message @Frederick.

Bullying comes to mind.............................

Vote NO

No personal attacks from here just rationalising a perspective.

I am thankful you've resisted the urge to post more repetitive‘asked-and-answered-questions’ and twisting words!

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8 minutes ago, Frederick said:

No personal attacks from here just rationalising a perspective.

I am thankful you've resisted the urge to post more repetitive‘asked-and-answered-questions’ and twisting words!

They have only been repeated so often because APINZ and supporters have not given adequate responses or quite often no response.

oh...and regards further repeats of what in my opinion are inadequately answerred matters I am just catching my breath for a moment.

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Three and a half days into this forum and we have 3300 views but only 25 people have posted comment; I'm away for a couple of days and will be watching but not commenting.

 

 I'd like to take this opportunity to reiterate the positive way forward I'm advocating. I'd also like to thank those willing to engage, comment and build on the perspective from all sides to date: I respect your willingness to put your heads up above the parapets.

 

The deep seated distaste of things APINZ and historical ill-feeling shown by some perplexes me and viewing various web-sites and Facebook pages I'm further discouraged by the NO advocates who seemingly have no rational/constructive alternative on the table themselves; but I suppose to a degree that mirrors life!

 

Ali I look forward to your next comment with baited breath, while I'm sure it'll annoy the hell out of me at least you're engaging and I respect that! 

Bron I'd love it if you'd engage and comment rather than just popping in to kick my backside

Trevor while you pop in from time to time why don't you engage with some pearls to convince me I'm advocating for the wrong perspective.

 

 

 

Edited by Frederick
grammar

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On 16/02/2019 at 9:53 PM, Frederick said:

Trevor you seemed happy to back me when I was originally anti the Levy; why don't you engage with me now I'm looking for a positive way forward via a commercial sector run organisation: Or is it that SNI Group have decide that after a NO vote they'll ride in like white Knights (along with NZ Beekeeping Inc.) take over APINZ, appoint a new board and management, redo the Levy thing under the total control of beekeepers and ride off into the sunset with halo's in place!

I have never said the NZ Beekeeping Inc or SNI should take over ApiNZ.  If fact I said that none of the named groups shoup be in sole charge of the levy.

However, a joint consortium is probably the way to go.

I have also stated that I am in favour of a levy, It is just that I do not trust the current ApiNZ.

On 17/02/2019 at 6:49 AM, Frederick said:

Trevor while you pop in from time to time why don't you engage with some pearls to convince me I'm advocating for the wrong perspective.

The reason I don't have more to say is that I don't want the discussion to be dominated by me and a couple others.  I am also a moderator on this site (as most people know) and I don't want my views to be seen as belonging to the forum management.

On 16/02/2019 at 9:53 PM, Frederick said:

Trevor you seemed happy to back me when I was originally anti the Levy; why don't you engage with me now I'm looking for a positive way forward via a commercial sector run organisation: Or is it that SNI Group have decide that after a NO vote they'll ride in like white Knights (along with NZ Beekeeping Inc.) take over APINZ, appoint a new board and management, redo the Levy thing under the total control of beekeepers and ride off into the sunset with halo's in place!

Why is it that you take my comments as those of the SNI group and are effectively as not having a personal view.  However when I suggest somewhat similar to you, you got a tad uppity.

 

 

Personally, I am sick to death of this Levy, the debate and the incessant mantra of saying "Look forward".  Well maybe it is me looking forward and it is myself and @Ali who can see the massive precipice that we are being asked to walk off like lemmings.

 

I say. (Me Trevor)  vote NO.

 

 

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If I didn't have an interest in Comvita and planned on producing a tonne of my own honey next year I'd vote yes. 

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Keith, our family decided very early in this debate our stance on the levy. I seldom comment on the forum these days as I’m far to damn busy out in the field or baby sitting. 

 

I am am also a moderator.

 

i will be voting. To do nothing implies consent.

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Ok. heres My two cents.

im over all this bickering. This has turned from constructive discussion into 

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Dam. Pushed the wrong button, I had more to say but was too late editing cause I had sooo much to say .

 

I dislike that this has turned into mud slinging and name calling from both sides, you’re as bad as each other not allowing others to have a say. 

And nothing new is coming out. 

 

I’m all for the levy but I don’t want to see it used to prop up apinz and I fear the big boys take over. 

 

I have spent enough time on trusts and boards to know most people stand with good intention of helping their greater community. However what a small operation sees as vital is very different to a corporate. We need a cross section of large and small business. I’d also like it if they were or had been all hands on commercial beekeepers. Presently even the hobbiest representative works for comvita. 

If we had some idea of who was going to stand we could decide if we were prepared put all our faith in them.  It would also be better if the new board was in place before the first levy fund votes take place. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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36 minutes ago, nikki watts said:

Dam. Pushed the wrong button, I had more to say but was too late editing cause I had sooo much to say .

 

I dislike that this has turned into mud slinging and name calling from both sides, you’re as bad as each other not allowing others to have a say. 

And nothing new is coming out. 

 

I’m all for the levy but I don’t want to see it used to prop up apinz and I fear the big boys take over. 

 

I have spent enough time on trusts and boards to know most people stand with good intention of helping their greater community. However what a small operation sees as vital is very different to a corporate. We need a cross section of large and small business. I’d also like it if they were or had been all hands on commercial beekeepers. Presently even the hobbiest representative works for comvita. 

If we had some idea of who was going to stand we could decide if we were prepared put all our faith in them.  It would also be better if the new board was in place before the first levy fund votes take place. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

My feeling 100% and that’s why it’s a positive NO vote from me 

Edited by frazzledfozzle
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I’m for the levy but against the way it will be collected and the body that will collect it.

 

The most reasonable place for the levy to be collected is at point of sale. 

 

The argument that bee keepers would be compelled to test is a nonsense, to seperate a levy for Manuka and other honeys. We are testing anyway. (These days more than once, with all respect to the labs they’re creaming it.) If not the seller then the buyer as this fixes the price paid. If the levy was 1c in the dollar we’d hear some squealing then.

 

Id love to see a unified industry, working towards common agreed goals but I think that ships sailed, well before I entered bee keeping. I’d settle for politeness and agreeing to disagree.

 

Beekeepers get dirty and sweaty, wearing beesuits not business suits. 

 

Im done too. VOTE 

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To the relief of many I am sure, I am making this my last posting on levy matters until after the vote is announced, as I do not think I have anything else to say. 

My views are now well known, and while I find the current situation very sad, I am actually very confident for the future, based on one simple fact.

The NBA that formed in 1913 and lasted 100 years, was actually the third attempt from the industry of the time to build a primary administrative group. Practise can make perfect.

 

My last two comments are.

1) Please everyone vote so we can get a clear manadate one way or the other.

2) The option in front of us is just one idea from a small group that has pushed hard.

However, our industry is made up of some incredibly smart people, so if we feel we want something different, be confident in yourselves to know we can achieve anything, and any structure we are happy to pass onto the next generation.

All the pieces exist, it is just a matter of putting transparency and integrity into the mix, and within two years we could have multifaceted industry representation that allows individual choice.

 

Catch you all on the other side.

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20 minutes ago, Sailabee said:

 

@ApiNZ Levy Proposal, what financial relationship does Paul Martin have with Comvita, current, past, or intended please? 

 

Just checking as followed on from previous poster.

@Sailabee my post was incorrect. 

His bio had no interests in comvita listed.

100% apologies to Paul  Martin.

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4 hours ago, Bushy said:

To the relief of many I am sure, I am making this my last posting on levy matters until after the vote is announced, as I do not think I have anything else to say. 

@Bushy it will be a shame to have you missing from this thread. I feel your views have been astute and valuable.

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