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Frederick

Commodity Levy / Fight for the Industrys future?

RISK OF CLOSURE

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5 hours ago, Ali said:

.  The past for years has delivered corporate and foreign ownership (partial or full) of hives in most folks forage grounds to the extreme. AFB increases ( with cost increases). Plummetting honey returns ....and so the list goes on.

What has APINZ delivered? A levy proposal and an intent to control the industry?

 

Excuse me Ali, do I understand it that uyou are blaming ApiNZ for decreased honey returns ?

And if so . . . ahh . . . really ?

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43 minutes ago, frazzledfozzle said:

how lucky are we that we can both have opposite opinions and neither of us need to worry about the police knocking on the door :) 

I wonder how many people, especially the younger generation have never had cause to give this point any thought?

 

Edited by Philbee
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12 minutes ago, frazzledfozzle said:

 

Im not sure which message I need to take on board and I’m not sure what I said that was ridicule and my negative attitude you say I have is only because you don’t agree with my opinion. 

Just because I don’t agree with you doesn’t mean My opinion is any less valid than yours. 

Good as gold Frazz 'so be it' if you can't grasp my message.

Regardless I don't give a damn if you have an alternate opinion albeit I'm not sure what it is but I reiterate I'm not interested in childish byplay?

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27 minutes ago, Trevor Gillbanks said:

But ApiNZ will certainly not engage with NZ Beekeeping Inc or SNI Beekeeping Inc.  I hope a strong No.vote will encourage ApiNZ to talk to the other groups, and come to some sort of compromise.

sorry to upset you Trevor but every time APINZ has asked to meet with nz bees they have declined, and there has been many times the invitation has been offered, we are have been more than happy to sit together and chat but this has always been declined.

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5 hours ago, Frederick said:

the commercial sector will have the ability to control governance of the re-tweaked APINZ

What re-tweaked APINZ @Frederick? Do you speak for the current Board? CEO? The existing very large hive holding members or is this simply your dream? Your ideal perhaps?

There is nothing really offered by APINZ in the way of a re-tweaking is there? 1 more commercial beekeeper seat perhaps is all I have seen offered

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3 hours ago, tommy dave said:

here is another question for @ApiNZ Levy Proposal. Have you been given any indication about voting numbers to date? yes/no question. Please don't avoid this one.

NZ Elections wont tell you how the vote is going until the end, but at some stage they may let us know the percentage of votes cast, just not in what direction.

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16 minutes ago, JohnF said:

Excuse me Ali, do I understand it that uyou are blaming ApiNZ for decreased honey returns ?

And if so . . . ahh . . . really ?

Oh @JohnF! Read my posts as you may. 

No, that is not what I wrote. However those things have come to pass (and much more) yet I have seen little constructive from APINZ in that same period.

Past performance......etc

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14 minutes ago, Dennis Crowley said:

sorry to upset you Trevor but every time APINZ has asked to meet with nz bees they have declined, and there has been many times the invitation has been offered, we are have been more than happy to sit together and chat but this has always been declined.

Priceless!!!  After all the waa waa on this forum from a couple of particularly vocal opponents of ApiNZ  (neither of which it would appear actually qualify to be paying the levy) it’s actually NZ Bees who aren’t prepared to sit down and form a united front!!  Brilliant!!!

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3 hours ago, Frederick said:

What it fails to convey is that it is impossible for ANY grouping of beekeepers to outvote any small consortium that controls over half of the weighted levy vote...

@Frederick, very early in the forum posts by APINZ representatives, when considerable arrogance was demonstrated by the same, it was loudly claimed that APINZ already had more than 50% of all hives in the bag. The number of individual members of APINZ was very difficult to ascertain as APINZ was extremely reluctant to tell. However it was declared at around the 6-700 mark. 

Since then it has very difficult to elicit straight answers from APINZ in any areas important to many.

APINZ needs more than a re-tweak!!

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6 minutes ago, Ali said:

What re-tweaked APINZ @Frederick? Do you speak for the current Board? CEO? The existing very large hive holding members or is this simply your dream? Your ideal perhaps?

There is nothing really offered by APINZ in the way of a re-tweaking is there? 1 more commercial beekeeper seat perhaps is all I have seen offered

Might surprise you Alp but I'm not a current member of APINZ (or in fact any other Beekeeping organisation) in fact I left APINZ because I didn't consider it represented the commercial sector appropriately.

However following a YES vote Board elections will take place and the commercial sector will have the ability to vote for a majority of members (5 of 8).

Following on from which the sector will ultimately influence the governance of APINZ and ensure it works first and foremost for the good of the commercial sector while encompassing other member groups as well.

There's nothing on offer but its definitely there for the taking should the commercial sector inclusive NZ Beekeeping Inc. and other groups have the foresight to grasp it and move forward for the good of the industry!

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3 minutes ago, Frederick said:

However following a YES vote Board elections will take place and the commercial sector will have the ability to vote for a majority of members (5 of 8).

Following on from which the sector will ultimately influence the governance of APINZ and ensure it works first and foremost for the good of the commercial sector while encompassing other member groups as well.

There's nothing on offer but its definitely there for the taking should the commercial sector inclusive NZ Beekeeping Inc. and other groups have the foresight to grasp it and move forward for the good of the industry!

However, this is in the realms of a pipe dream presently.

If what you describe was the current situation (horse before the cart as it should be) we may already have a unified industry.

APINZ have ensured this is not the case currently.

Past performance......etc

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5 minutes ago, Ali said:

@Frederick, very early in the forum posts by APINZ representatives, when considerable arrogance was demonstrated by the same, it was loudly claimed that APINZ already had more than 50% of all hives in the bag. The number of individual members of APINZ was very difficult to ascertain as APINZ was extremely reluctant to tell. However it was declared at around the 6-700 mark. 

Since then it has very difficult to elicit straight answers from APINZ in any areas important to many.

APINZ needs more than a re-tweak!!

Ali this is purely regurgitated negative hearsay which does nothing to clarify things!

The fact is the commercial sectors sitting on a once in a lifetime opurtuntiy to take the professional organisation that is APINZ by the scruff of the neck and mould it into something that will deliver result to the industry for the foreseeable future!

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4 minutes ago, Ali said:

However, this is in the realms of a pipe dream presently.

If what you describe was the current situation (horse before the cart as it should be) we may already have a unified industry.

APINZ have ensured this is not the case currently.

Past performance......etc

Again negative input of no substance which does nothing to clarify things!

I Repeat:

The fact is the commercial sectors sitting on a once in a lifetime opurtuntiy to take the professional organisation that is APINZ by the scruff of the neck and mould it into something that will deliver result to the industry for the foreseeable future!

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25 minutes ago, Ted said:

Priceless!!!  After all the waa waa on this forum from a couple of particularly vocal opponents of ApiNZ  (neither of which it would appear actually qualify to be paying the levy) it’s actually NZ Bees who aren’t prepared to sit down and form a united front!!  Brilliant!!!

Can anyone add some insight as to why NZ Bees wouldn't come to the table?

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Closing down for the night and received a circular/email from NZ Beekeeping Inc. encouraging me to vote against the levy; Below is my reply (apologies its a little repetitive!):

 

Dear Geoff,

 

I too have been around for a few years and am totally opposed to your message below and would love you to give me the same consideration in reading my message.

 

A strong YES vote is the only means to a co-operative and cohesive way forward: Should this be the result those entities holding voting blocs will have an opportunity to contribute to the re-tweaking of APINZ and a successful future under the governance of the new board (5 of 8 seats to commercial sector).

 

The idea that a NO vote will result in some sort of compromise is an obscure thought; who are they going to compromise with, you, me, NZ Beekeeping Inc., SNI Group or any of the hundreds of commercial entities: No won't happen!

 

There's no white knight here; NZ Beekeeping and / or SNI Group aren't going to ride in on white horses and save the day we'll just continue the endless infighting and bickering that inflicts this industry and it'll continue to be a negative power playing mess!

 

It's not to late to take a long renewed look at the benefits of collectively building on the professional (not perfect) organisation that is APINZ; I'd love NZ Beekeeping Inc. to try!

 

The wise heads and industry nous that flourishes in the heads of the experienced is worth gold and is undisputed and your organisation has more than its fair share.

 

With a YES vote the commercial sector will have the ability to control governance of the re-tweaked APINZ and with the voting blocks of NZ Beekeeping Inc and SNI Group and others will ensure the small to medium/larger commercial operators say will be the dominating voice.

 

The perspective of a governance board dominated by the commercial sector (5 of 8 seats) in an effective and renewed APINZ moving forward is a godsend the industry should embrace!

 

I'm not saying APINZ have been the organisation that was envisaged when it came to be but I am saying that with 'rational thought and input and a YES vote'' it could be just what is required to represent the Commercial Beekeepers / Levy payers for the foreseeable future.

 

Honestly are we prepared to look at putting in place the voluntary run organisations of the past (won’t happen)  or are we wanting a 'professionally run organisation' representing us under our stewardship.

 

This isn't rocket science: It’s a way forward!

   

Keith Rodie

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9 hours ago, Frederick said:

Again negative input of no substance which does nothing to clarify things!

I Repeat:

The fact is the commercial sectors sitting on a once in a lifetime opurtuntiy to take the professional organisation that is APINZ by the scruff of the neck and mould it into something that will deliver result to the industry for the foreseeable future!

Hi Frederick - It's a great opportunity if good commercial beekeepers stand for election, grabbing the opportunity of the democratic process.  Without me trawling through a heap of posts, I calculate on my abacus that you are prob aged approx. 65 with about 40 yrs commercial experience.  Ideal - You can stand for the board.  My understanding that if the Levy goes thru, is that the election under this new scheme for the new board makeup will be mid 2020.  I think the fact that the board dynamics in commercial numbers are to change, does allude to the fact that ApiNZ have taken note. 

 

If the Levy does go thru, I also believe that the dynamics of the Non Commercial Sector will change, and this sector will hold a huge amount of expertise with the skills and experience to back the commercial sector board.  

 

Beekeeping Inc are a insular autocratic group.  The have not even got the guts to posts as individuals on this forum, under their own name.  Heaven help us though, if the manage to learn!  Essentially this is the old NBA, and are yesteryear's management.  Not only do we need experience in our industry, we need those with an amicable personality that can communicate, organise, delegate and take note of constructive feedback. 

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5 minutes ago, Margaret Anne said:

Hi Frederick - It's a great opportunity if good commercial beekeepers stand for election, grabbing the opportunity of the democratic process.  Without me trawling through a heap of posts, I calculate on my abacus that you are prob aged approx. 65 with about 40 yrs commercial experience.  Ideal - You can stand for the board.  My understanding that if the Levy goes thru, is that the election under this new scheme for the new board makeup will be mid 2020.  I think the fact that the board dynamics in commercial numbers are to change, does allude to the fact that ApiNZ have taken note. 

 

If the Levy does go thru, I also believe that the dynamics of the Non Commercial Sector will change, and this sector will hold a huge amount of expertise with the skills and experience to back the commercial sector board.  

 

Beekeeping Inc are a insular autocratic group.  The have not even got the guts to posts as individuals on this forum, under their own name.  Heaven help us though, if the manage to learn!  Essentially this is the old NBA, and are yesteryear's management.  Not only do we need experience in our industry, we need those with an amicable personality that can communicate, organise, delegate and take note of constructive feedback. 

A few things here Margaret:

 

 Firstly: You make me older than I am and I've also spent time away from the industry gaining other business and life experience!

 

 Secondly: I've got a lot of time for some within NZ Beekeeping Inc. who have cut their teeth in an industry that has a habit of knocking you back and then knocking you down just to ensure you get the message! If they could see the picture I'm painting for them and took the time to assess its merits I'd hope they'd come on board and break the eternal Beekeeping cycle of disjointed organisations fighting for the scraps of Industry dominance!

 

So again I call out NZ Beekeeping Inc. and SNI Group and any other organisations and individuals looking to vote NO and say look at what I'm saying/proposing (its got substance)! You hold the positive and rational organisational future of the commercial sector in your hands at least give it consideration!!!

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@tommy dave There is absolutely no way we can give voting numbers. This process is being run independently by ElectioNZ.  So to answer your questions simply, no!

 

Weighted voting on levy investment is a long talked about feature of this levy and has been outlined in both consultation material and on our website.  I'm not sure if you managed to make one of the road show meetings, but it was discussed there at some length also.

 

We do encourage people to read the material on our website. www.apinz.org.nz/levy

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@Trevor Gillbanks " But ApiNZ will certainly not engage with NZ Beekeeping Inc or SNI Beekeeping Inc.  I hope a strong No.vote will encourage ApiNZ to talk to the other groups, and come to some sort of compromise."

 

This is plain untrue.  We have written to NZ Beekeeping on numerous occasions asking them to meet and discuss the levy.  These invites were all declined.  ApiNZ first started scoping and designing this levy around 18 months ago, there were numerous opportunities to contribute and input into levy design.  NZ Beekeeping sent representatives to each and every levy consultation meeting.  No one can deny they have had the opportunity to contribute to the design and scope of this levy 

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Why do we have 3 market members in the APINZ Board if the vote passes when they don’t have to pay anything.

Should it not be mostly represented by commercial beekeepers and maybe one market member and one non commercial member? 

 

I am not saying vote yes or no, but just a thought in case the vote is yes. 

 

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3 minutes ago, Jose Thayil said:

Why do we have 3 market members in the APINZ Board if the vote passes when they don’t have to pay anything.

Should it not be mostly represented by commercial beekeepers and maybe one market member and one non commercial member? 

 

I am not saying vote yes or no, but just a thought in case the vote is yes. 

 

Jose there may well be a case for further adjustment later in the piece but the beauty of the new regime is that five of the eight seats are commercial and only the five commercial (Levy Payers) vote on Levy spending (APINZ please correct me if I'm wrong).

 

And while you're not telling anyone how to vote I am: Get positive Jose and vote YES but above all else vote!

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1 hour ago, ApiNZ Levy Proposal said:

This is plain untrue.  We have written to NZ Beekeeping on numerous occasions asking them to meet and discuss the levy.  These invites were all declined.  ApiNZ first started scoping and designing this levy around 18 months ago, there were numerous opportunities to contribute and input into levy design.  NZ Beekeeping sent representatives to each and every levy consultation meeting.  No one can deny they have had the opportunity to contribute to the design and scope of this levy 

I notice there has been not comment by either you or @Dennis Crowley to include the SNI group.  

We have had not invite to contribute.  Quite the reverse, During the first round of voting (which was a resounding defeat), SNI were sent a Lawyers letter.

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@Trevor Gillbanks I'm afraid you are confused about voting, there has not been any vote for the levy before the one that is taking place now.  Really not sure what you are on about there.  

 

Yes SNI were sent a letter from lawyers.  This was after an illegal copy of the database was used to spread false information.  ApiNZ's contact details were also used fraudulently.  That, incidentally broke a number of laws at the time, we chose not to take further action.  

 

ALL beekeepers have been invited to contribute.  9 meetings across the country, numerous smaller meetings and workshops, a dedicated website and e-mail address.  ApiNZ has enjoyed engagement with beekeepers via these forums.  If none of these methods of communication suited it would have been good to have known that at the time.  We received numerous invitations to front groups in Dunedin, Northland, Canterbury and Nelson (to name a few) and fronted them all.  It is therefore very misleading to claim your group was not consulted.   

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12 minutes ago, ApiNZ Levy Proposal said:

his was after an illegal copy of the database was used to spread false information. 

You are so wrong.  We did not use that AFBPMP database.  We harvested the contact list off the MPI web site, which at the time was public information.  This public showing of contact details was harvested by all sorts or companies to send out spam information.   The contact details have now been removed.

We did not use ApiNZ contact information.  However, Facebook Beekeeperagainstapitax did use that contact information (I believe).

Edited by Trevor Gillbanks
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@Trevor Gillbanks regardless of where the information came from that e-mail broke a number of laws. Good to have SNI confirm they are the author of that letter and associated websites.  That said, this forum is to discuss the levy and how it will benefit our industry.  

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