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Commodity Levy / Fight for the Industrys future?

RISK OF CLOSURE

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16 minutes ago, frazzledfozzle said:

Hardly fly by night buyers @Ted

It was the big players as much as anyone else.

Yes quite true but big or small where are they now??  The point is if you were a shareholder of the co-op you were guaranteed an outlet for all your honey (if you had enough shares) and that could still be the case now if some loyalty had been shown.

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3 hours ago, tony said:

Hey Dennis, hope your season went ok.

Thats the point there are none, but any group that can pull off a majority national market one brand I will be interested in paying a levy to.

However we not like "fontera" and never will be I never liked mpi idea of the honey industry trying to be all big like other primary industries and wanting to be a 1.2 billion dollar industry I don't belive that is a sustainable system for nz beekeeping, good to have goals, but why didn't they say ok we are producing 600 million, let's first of all ensure we can sustain that, then maybe aim for 800 million and if that doesn't work we know we we hit a tipping point or saturation, we can then cut back, I'd be curious where we sitting now after this season, maybe we hit the tipping point I would say some are on the edge of a cliff, so maybe I answered my own statement there I guess that's exactly what has happened.

That's where a quota system could work well, if you can't supply you sell you quota for the year

Hey Tony, no it was maybe my worst one yet, the whole valley I go to didn't even flower, and where it did flower the bees got astelia honey. But theres always next year.

The billion dollar industry was Nationals target not APINZ.

 

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23 minutes ago, Dennis Crowley said:

Hey Tony, no it was maybe my worst one yet, the whole valley I go to didn't even flower, and where it did flower the bees got astelia honey. But theres always next year.

The billion dollar industry was Nationals target not APINZ.

 

Whats astelia honey like ?

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36 minutes ago, Dennis Crowley said:

Hey Tony, no it was maybe my worst one yet, the whole valley I go to didn't even flower, and where it did flower the bees got astelia honey. But theres always next year.

The billion dollar industry was Nationals target not APINZ.

 

Yea agree I think I said mpi not apinz that target was before apinz was formed, but I never liked it when they stood up at a meeting somewhere think it was thames and made that statement, I instantly thought great that's overstocking right there.

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1 hour ago, Ted said:

Yes quite true but big or small where are they now??  The point is if you were a shareholder of the co-op you were guaranteed an outlet for all your honey (if you had enough shares) and that could still be the case now if some loyalty had been shown.

 

They are still around and still selling honey I guess.

 

who in their right mind would sell honey for $8 if they were offered $20 ?

loyalty doesn’t put food on the table or pay money off the mortgage.

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4 minutes ago, frazzledfozzle said:

 

They are still around and still selling honey I guess.

 

who in their right mind would sell honey for $8 if they were offered $20 ?

loyalty doesn’t put food on the table or pay money off the mortgage.

Of course your right but a little loyalty back then to save the co-op May have helped put food on the table and pay the mortgage today.

13 minutes ago, frazzledfozzle said:

 

They are still around and still selling honey I guess.

 

who in their right mind would sell honey for $8 if they were offered $20 ?

loyalty doesn’t put food on the table or pay money off the mortgage.

The price difference was never that extreme - in fact the co-op was buying on the open market as well so must have been reasonably competitive.  Also you are forgetting as a shareholder you are entitled to dividends if the company is profitable.

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8 hours ago, Ted said:

Of course your right but a little loyalty back then to save the co-op May have helped put food on the table and pay the mortgage today.

The price difference was never that extreme - in fact the co-op was buying on the open market as well so must have been reasonably competitive.  Also you are forgetting as a shareholder you are entitled to dividends if the company is profitable.

We looked at joining the Co-op years ago. We had to buy a dollar share for every kilo honey we signed up to sell.  So the initial buy in was $10k.  Just up the road Davidson's Apiaries was paying $2/kg more than the co-op.  The catch was we had to wait almost a year to get a payout from Davidson's. 

Of course we picked the apple that was ripe at the time .

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9 hours ago, Ted said:

a little loyalty back then to save the co-op May have helped put food on the table and pay the mortgage today

you seem to be able to look into the future. Whats Saturdays loto numbers going to be?

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23 hours ago, tony said:

Yea agree I think I said mpi not apinz that target was before apinz was formed, but I never liked it when they stood up at a meeting somewhere think it was thames and made that statement, I instantly thought great that's overstocking right there.

That was said in Gisborne as well. I’m quite sure it was by MPI.

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21 minutes ago, Daley said:

That was said in Gisborne as well. I’m quite sure it was by 

Hey Daley hows motherhood going? Yea probably was. I got this habit of when people start bragging about how much money they got or going to make or spend, I shut off, it's just a noise in the back ground, I should probably work on that and at least listen.

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45 minutes ago, tony said:

Hey Daley hows motherhood going? Yea probably was. I got this habit of when people start bragging about how much money they got or going to make or spend, I shut off, it's just a noise in the back ground, I should probably work on that and at least listen.

Yeah it’s good, gets in the way of working but managed 6 hours today so I can go to work a bit if I don’t go too far, she’s really good with Bron but I doubt she would go to anyone else, her Dad can’t manage her for much more than an hour 😂

 

Haha nah stay that way, it’s not worth hearing about

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Posted (edited)

Sorry to keep banging on about the goat industry but it worth highlighting 2 points from their quota model.  

 

The first is if you do not do your quota then they have the discretion to charge you 1/3 of the payout on under supply.  

 

Second is the board have the discretion to redeem your shares for 1 cent in the dollar.  So that stops anyone trying underhanded tactics like to put cow milk in the vat. 

 

To my knowledge neither cause has even been implemented.  But you need sticks to keep people honest and for the co op greater good. 

Edited by flash4cash
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4 hours ago, flash4cash said:

Sorry to keep banging on about the goat industry but it worth highlighting 2 points from their quota model.  

 

The first is if you do not do your quota then they have the discretion to charge you 1/3 of the payout on under supply.  

 

Second is the board have the discretion to redeem your shares for 1 cent in the dollar.  So that stops anyone trying underhanded tactics like to put cow milk in the vat. 

 

To my knowledge neither cause has even been implemented.  But you need sticks to keep people honest and for the co op greater good. 

Sounds like a good system to me 

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21 minutes ago, tony said:

Sounds like a good system to me 

It does , and it is 

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2 hours ago, M4tt said:

It does , and it is 

I dont know if it is still the same but they do or did restrict who could supply them and where you could farm goats for supply, we were looking at it at one stage.

So if that is still there and that is holding up the price paid due to containing supply, same as gold kiwifruit, then the question for beekeeping if you want to go down that path is who can be in and who cant? and who decides?

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Posted (edited)
31 minutes ago, Dennis Crowley said:

I dont know if it is still the same but they do or did restrict who could supply them and where you could farm goats for supply, we were looking at it at one stage.

So if that is still there and that is holding up the price paid due to containing supply, same as gold kiwifruit, then the question for beekeeping if you want to go down that path is who can be in and who cant? and who decides?

Supply is restricted as it is for Tatua Dairy Company , which has the highest paid dairy farmers in the country. In fact, when you go onto a Dairy Goat Co op or Tatua farm, the vibe is a whole lot different than the rest of the farms in NZ. 

 

Restricting Supply is a small but very important part of both their strategy for success. It's not rocket science....... Don't produce more than you can sell . Keeping the market  on the slightly hungry side, wanting , more will always be more successful for a long term business plan than oversupply and hoping for the best 

Edited by M4tt
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1 hour ago, M4tt said:

Supply is restricted as it is for Tatua Dairy Company , which has the highest paid dairy farmers in the country. In fact, when you go onto a Dairy Goat Co op or Tatua farm, the vibe is a whole lot different than the rest of the farms in NZ. 

 

Restricting Supply is a small but very important part of both their strategy for success. It's not rocket science....... Don't produce more than you can sell . Keeping the market  on the slightly hungry side, wanting , more will always be more successful for a long term business plan than oversupply and hoping for the best 

Yep I agree, so how can you see this being played out in our industry?

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Posted (edited)
14 minutes ago, Dennis Crowley said:

Yep I agree, so how can you see this being played out in our industry?

That is a very hard question to find an answer to . 

From what I can see , it only works for a minority producing an exceptional product .

 

 

 

Edited by M4tt

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2 hours ago, Dennis Crowley said:

beekeeping if you want to go down that path is who can be in and who cant? and who decides?

 

Well in the goat industry after the 2nd major bust was simplify who is left standing. 

 

They then spent 5 years or so milking goats for nothing, freezing the milk and driving it to the airport so it could be sent to Ozzy to go into infant formula trails. So it sorts out thouse that are committed to the game, money or nothing. 

 

I suspect honey industry is about to experience a similar outcome.  With the right leadership nz honey could come back strong if they are smart.  Most of us however will not be here. 

Let me just say the bees are fun but not everything in life.  Family, friends and your health are far more important.  There is respect to anyone whom decided to move on.  

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19 minutes ago, M4tt said:

That is a very hard question to find an answer to . 

From what I can see , it only works for a minority producing an exceptional product .

 

So we are getting back where I said maybe a year ago that the NZ beekeeping short time future is about who can win a war.

Since discussions started about having a levy per kg of honey more bkpers show interest to shift their hives in manuka areas and even to give up(sell) on hives and non-manuka locations.

 

Those who can make a bit of manuka honey will be safe what ever levy will be while others will try to fight voting for better solutions.

 

If MPI will not sign off a percentage per kg of honey levy strategy(this is my understanding) then simply use the fixed levy per kg for  manuka honey only.  A $1-1.50/kg is reasonable I will say.

 

 

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43 minutes ago, Kiwi Bee said:

 

So we are getting back where I said maybe a year ago that the NZ beekeeping short time future is about who can win a war.

Since discussions started about having a levy per kg of honey more bkpers show interest to shift their hives in manuka areas and even to give up(sell) on hives and non-manuka locations.

 

Those who can make a bit of manuka honey will be safe what ever levy will be while others will try to fight voting for better solutions.

 

If MPI will not sign off a percentage per kg of honey levy strategy(this is my understanding) then simply use the fixed levy per kg for  manuka honey only.  A $1-1.50/kg is reasonable I will say.

 

 

MPI don't set a levy, they just sign off on a levy that an industry decides it wants. 

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I know that @Dennis Crowley. From my understanding they did not want to sign off the per cent version of the levy.

Also it seems that ApiNZ did not fight(or not enough) for the per cent version.

And I do not feel MPI being a co-player. Should not be that the purpose of having the beekeeping too in their buscket?

 

When we heard for the first time that the bkping industry will get under the MPI's umbrella, we were told that they will work for us. For who? Manuka honey producers?

If the law is not tuned to suit bkping then make sure the law will have one or more articles added(or create a new one specific to bkping) to serve the big majority of bkpers for their best satisfaction(the vote showed how satisfied the bkpers are with the proposed levy strategy).

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Posted (edited)

 

1 hour ago, Kiwi Bee said:

Those who can make a bit of manuka honey will be safe what ever levy will be while others will try to fight voting for better solutions.

I wouldn't take that as a given.

The pasture / bush guys might be the canaries in the mine.

We are about to see a serious squeeze on China

Edited by Philbee
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3 hours ago, Dennis Crowley said:

MPI don't set a levy, they just sign off on a levy that an industry decides it wants. 

and turns out that is zero if it is to be administered by apinz

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18 hours ago, tommy dave said:

and turns out that is zero if it is to be administered by apinz

For you Tom as a hobbyist it will always be zero, but we are happy for you to receive all the benefits whenever the industry votes one in. 

21 hours ago, Kiwi Bee said:

I know that @Dennis Crowley. From my understanding they did not want to sign off the per cent version of the levy.

Also it seems that ApiNZ did not fight(or not enough) for the per cent version.

And I do not feel MPI being a co-player. Should not be that the purpose of having the beekeeping too in their buscket?

 

When we heard for the first time that the bkping industry will get under the MPI's umbrella, we were told that they will work for us. For who? Manuka honey producers?

If the law is not tuned to suit bkping then make sure the law will have one or more articles added(or create a new one specific to bkping) to serve the big majority of bkpers for their best satisfaction(the vote showed how satisfied the bkpers are with the proposed levy strategy).

Kiwi Bee, unsure where you got your understanding from, MPI would sign off on any design an industry wanted as long as it fits in with the commodity levy rules, they had no suggestion as to how to strike the levy. APINZ looked at many types of levy design and chose what we settled on, not MPI, but as a hobbyist it really dosent affect you as you would not be levied.

All industries come under MPI umbrella wether they like it or not. 

 

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