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Commodity Levy / Fight for the Industrys future?

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@Trevor Gillbanks Good question.  This would take place through natural attrition.  That is, if the levy is voted in we will evaluate vacant Board positions as they fall due. Ultimately the Board will be "levy compliant" and as we have discussed well ahead of the first levy payments being due.  

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3 hours ago, M4tt said:

Is Ali a guy or gal?

she avoids acknowledging one of her early posts here, despite being asked about it explicitly. This should answer your question, unless @Ali is a liar or has gone through a significant transition in the last few years

 

Edited by tommy dave

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1 minute ago, tommy dave said:

she avoids acknowledging one of her early posts here, despite being asked about it explicitly. This should answer your question, unless @Ali is a liar

 

 

Thats from 2014 

I know “commercial” beekeepers who have more hives than us and they have only been in the game 6 months in that sense 2014 is a long time ago !

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Just now, frazzledfozzle said:

 

Thats from 2014 

I know “commercial” beekeepers who have more hives than us and they have only been in the game 6 months in that sense 2014 is a long time ago !

in response to the gender query ;) could have 10,000 hives for all i know and fear

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2 minutes ago, tommy dave said:

in response to the gender query ;) could have 10,000 hives for all i know and fear

 

Im not interested in anyone’s gender.

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3 hours ago, JohnF said:

 

 

Sure guys - but sorry to repeat it again:

https://www.nzbees.net/forums/topic/12282-are-you-a-member-of-apinz/?do=findComment&comment=210872  (part way through)

 

I am a hobbiest. Re: levy funds and being a researcher. As stated before also, there is a conflict of interest there as I'm a member of the ApiNZ Science & Research group (no financial remuneration, in fact its hours of expense instead - even more for others in the group)

 

Our lab has used money generated from our commercial bee pathogen testing (plus other funds) to fund various R&D into things such as varroa resistance to flumethrins, AFB detection and other work. None of it funded by those that would potentially benefit ie all beekeepers. Again, repeating from previous posts but fair enough, you asked again Frazz.

 

 

@JohnF I only brought it up again because of the hounding of @Ali about his/her status.

I agree with @john berry It’s good to have input from all beekeepers for many reasons.

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21 hours ago, CraBee said:

The Clash, "Should I Stay or Should I Go"  - Legendary in circa 1989 

 

https://www.whosampled.com/sample/6349/Big-Audio-Dynamite-The-Globe-The-Clash-Should-I-Stay-or-Should-I-Go/

 

Listen only on MAX  volume.

 

Some Lyrics:

.".....
This indecision's bugging me
If you don't want me, set me free 
Exactly whom I'm supposed to be 
Don't you know which clothes even fit me?
Come on and let me know
Should I cool it or should I blow? 
Split
 
Should I stay or should I go now? 
Should I stay or should I go now? 
If I go there will be trouble
And if I stay it will be double 
So ya gotta let me know 
Should I cool it or should I blow?
......"

 

"The Clash - Should I Stay or Should I Go" got no likes, not one. 

For those who didn't get it It was a parody of the levy vote.

It was somewhat more interesting, I thought at least, than talking about the levy.

Seems like the jokes on me. 

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21 minutes ago, CraBee said:

 

"The Clash - Should I Stay or Should I Go" got no likes, not one. 

For those who didn't get it It was a parody of the levy vote. 

It was somewhat more interesting, I thought at least, than talking about the levy.

Seems like the jokes on me. 

So, are you saying in that the beekeeping community is thick or uncultured?! 

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2 minutes ago, Margaret Anne said:

So, are you saying in that the beekeeping community is thick or uncultured?! 

 

Whoa I go wading into the levy topic and I'm taking hits already....

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15 minutes ago, CraBee said:

 

Whoa I go wading into the levy topic and I'm taking hits already....

Welcome 😉😂

 

Its fairly rough in here 

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6 hours ago, JohnF said:

 

A very good post @Daley 

A couple of things its raises with me

 - I am not attacking anyone for having an opinion. What I do not like is repeated asking of the same questions that have been repeatedly answered. To keep asking the same questions is to try and tie up peoples' time to keep answering the same questions. This (to me) is trolling. If Ali will indeed be a levy payer or otherwise be involved with the levy, and will explain considered views (as I believe I have done, Keith has done, Trevor for SNI has done . . . and now you have done) then I will apologise for any offence taken.

 

But one apology is to @Sailabee I think, who was the only one who answered about the Cororapa question I posed. Your comment about the nosemas and lotmaria from @TammyW's work Daley made me realise I never followed on (research benefit for those that want to skip to next post)

 

 

So some of the most practical and useful research that I've seen in a long time is from Plant and Food on this nosema issue, together with a member of (dare I say it . .OK then) @ApiNZ Science & Research who's a commercial beekeeper. Many will have heard it - some may not have - : the comb sterilisation method. But more recent data shows the benefits in honey production - a 15% increase. (Yes, I know that many are struggling to sell honey currently) but in previous years that might have been 15% HONEY INCREASE !

 

I fully agree with the corollary to your statement - research paid for by beekeepers must be helpful and have practical application. And that's why the 15% honey increase sticks in my mind.

 

 

One of the purposes of the levy when first proposed was to help build a sustainable industry - sustainable through the period of growth  eg marketing, research, product benefits etc.

It could be argued then, are we too late? But if not now, when? When honey production is higher, levies are higher as a result and people don't want to part with higher dollars? It seems it's like the whole consultation/voting 'best time' for beekeepers  . . . . . there is no best time. There is only now.

 

Just vote

@Ali is speaking her mind, I don’t think there is anything wrong with that.

And she is not the only one repeating herself either.

There are quite a few things that Ali and I have shared opinions on, I have merely worded my argument differently here but my position and opinions of corporate beekeeping are clear to read elsewhere in the forum, and APINZ is VERY cozy with corporate beehaving.

I believe corporates to be the biggest threat to bees in NZ currently due to some of their incredibly questionable practices and their lack of commonsense.

 

I am very appreciative of you and @TammyW and all the work that you have done thus far.

Intelligent people like you have a good understanding of things that I can’t even comprehend.

I know bees, but I am sadly lacking when it comes to science.

 

While it is good to have a hard and fast answer or a cure if you like, comb sterilisation for me would be a last resort because of the amount of work involved large scale, treating hundreds/thousands of boxes with comb sterilisation is unlikely to be viable for most commercial beekeepers unless it’s absolutely necessary.

I have a feeling that comb sterilisation is not the only answer to the question but it’s more information than we had before.

 

It is easy for someone to remain mostly unconcerned with things happening around them until it starts happening to them, then they are jumping around demanding instant answers and expecting them for free.

It really is a shame because a levy does have great potential, perhaps if APINZ were slightly more down to earth this would have gone more smoothly, all their campaign has achieved to date is to turn many people from apathy to hatred.

 

 

 

Also.

The next person to single someone out will be getting a warning from admin.

Cut the crap.

Ive had enough. Act like adults please

 

 

 

 

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17 minutes ago, Daley said:

The next person to single someone out will be getting a warning from admin.

I think you are a very capable moderator @Daley

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8 minutes ago, yesbut said:

I think you are a very capable moderator @Daley

I don’t like to moderate people.

They should moderate themselves.

But I will if I have to

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9 minutes ago, Daley said:

I don’t like to moderate people.

They should moderate themselves.

But I will if I have to

You’re a mum now @Daley... better get used to it. 

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41 minutes ago, Daley said:

 I believe corporates to be the biggest threat to bees in NZ currently due to some of their incredibly questionable practices and their lack of commonsense.

 

I completely agree.

Would have also added lack of values and ethics.

Edited by Bee Good
grammer
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30 minutes ago, Bee Good said:
1 hour ago, Daley said:

 I believe corporates to be the biggest threat to bees in NZ currently due to some of their incredibly questionable practices and their lack of commonsense.

 

I completely agree.

Would have also added lack of values and ethics.

Over the years I've come across many established beekeepers, a good number of new beekeepers and a few corporate beekeepers.

I've seen questionable practices that show a lack of beekeeping and industry nous, knowledge and common sense and those I would consider that lack values and ethics.

  • These issues aren't the sole domain of any one of these groups!

By far the greatest majority of people and businesses I have associated / dealt with in beekeeping are decent rational people; a good many colourful characters I'd acknowledge but on the whole so many good people.

Corporates are with us one way or the other moving forward and I don't see them dominating beekeeping as as I've elaborated in my original posting in the forum:

   [...The corporate model just doesn’t work on a beekeeping/hives in the field level and as various corporates work this out and move to alternate share-farming/equity models we will hopefully see a rise in individual Beekeeping Business opportunities for the up and coming in the industry!...]

I don't think anyone should allow their distaste of so called 'corporates' to influence their vote in the levy and industry's future!

Edited by Frederick
Grammar
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19 minutes ago, Frederick said:

Over the years I've come across many established beekeepers, a good number of new beekeepers and a few corporate beekeepers.

I've seen questionable practices that show a lack of beekeeping and industry nous, knowledge and common sense and those I would consider that lack values and ethics.

  • These issues aren't the sole domain of any one of these groups!

By far the greatest majority of people and businesses I have associated / dealt with in beekeeping are decent rational people; a good many colourful characters I'd acknowledge but on the whole so many good people.

Corporates are with us one way or the other moving forward and I don't see them dominating beekeeping as as I've elaborated in my original posting in the forum:

   [...The corporate model just doesn’t work on a beekeeping/hives in the field level and as various corporates work this out and move to alternate share-farming/equity models we will hopefully see a rise in individual Beekeeping Business opportunities for the up and coming in the industry!...]

I don't think anyone should allow their distaste of so called 'corporates' to influence their vote in the levy and industry's future!

While I agree with you that their are problem people in all camps the smaller ones are much easier dealt with by the ‘no ########s rule’ as in, you don’t do business with them, and you avoid them whenever possible.

They tend to be alienated by most of the other beekeepers.

 

The corporates tend to be harder to deal with because their people in the ground are quite often undeserving of the flack they get for doing what they are told, and the person who has told them simply has no idea what is and isn’t appropriate.

 

It is always good to deal with whoever is in charge and with corporates that can be complex.

 

Corporates tend to be more political people and they are likely to stand for boards because that is where major strengths lie.

The down to earth grassroots beekeepers are generally uninterested in politics and even the ones that are interested are far too busy.

 

With a commodity levy which has a weighted voting system is putting most of the power with the bigger players, seems like too bigger risk, you can’t argue that it’s not fair.

If this does happen then it will be difficult to change.

The money may not be spent in the areas where it will be going to good use and it can be used to benefit the few.

I don’t feel there is enough of a safety net to vote yes.

 

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22 minutes ago, Frederick said:

Over the years I've come across many established beekeepers, a good number of new beekeepers and a few corporate beekeepers.

I've seen questionable practices that show a lack of beekeeping and industry nous, knowledge and common sense and those I would consider that lack values and ethics.

  • These issues aren't the sole domain of any one of these groups!

By far the greatest majority of people and businesses I have associated / dealt with in beekeeping are decent rational people; a good many colourful characters I'd acknowledge but on the whole so many good people.

Corporates are with us one way or the other moving forward and I don't see them dominating beekeeping as as I've elaborated in my original posting in the forum:

   [...The corporate model just doesn’t work on a beekeeping/hives in the field level and as various corporates work this out and move to alternate share-farming/equity models we will hopefully see a rise in individual Beekeeping Business opportunities for the up and coming in the industry!...]

I don't think anyone should allow their distaste of so called 'corporates' to influence their vote in the levy and industry's future!

Your so right.  I can think of one very large organisation that would dearly love to get out of beekeeping and go back to just packing/marketing but they are in too deep.  I’m guessing they will be having some long conversations with their beekeeper staff about joint venture/share farming opportunities.

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5 minutes ago, Daley said:

While I agree with you that their are problem people in all camps the smaller ones are much easier dealt with by the ‘no ########s rule’ as in, you don’t do business with them, and you avoid them whenever possible.

They tend to be alienated by most of the other beekeepers.

 

The corporates tend to be harder to deal with because their people in the ground are quite often undeserving of the flack they get for doing what they are told, and the person who has told them simply has no idea what is and isn’t appropriate.

 

It is always good to deal with whoever is in charge and with corporates that can be complex.

 

Corporates tend to be more political people and they are likely to stand for boards because that is where major strengths lie.

The down to earth grassroots beekeepers are generally uninterested in politics and even the ones that are interested are far too busy.

 

With a commodity levy which has a weighted voting system is putting most of the power with the bigger players, seems like too bigger risk, you can’t argue that it’s not fair.

If this does happen then it will be difficult to change.

The money may not be spent in the areas where it will be going to good use and it can be used to benefit the few.

I don’t feel there is enough of a safety net to vote yes.

 

We'll have to agree to disagree there Daley.

I just don't see the corporates having weight of numbers vote wise and I certainly don't see the corporates all agreeing and block voting either!

 

Edited by Frederick
Grammar

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1 hour ago, Daley said:

@Ali is speaking her mind, I don’t think there is anything wrong with that.

And she is not the only one repeating herself either.

There are quite a few things that Ali and I have shared opinions on, I have merely worded my argument differently here but my position and opinions of corporate beekeeping are clear to read elsewhere in the forum, and APINZ is VERY cozy with corporate beehaving.

I believe corporates to be the biggest threat to bees in NZ currently due to some of their incredibly questionable practices and their lack of commonsense.

 

I am very appreciative of you and @TammyW and all the work that you have done thus far.

Intelligent people like you have a good understanding of things that I can’t even comprehend.

I know bees, but I am sadly lacking when it comes to science.

 

While it is good to have a hard and fast answer or a cure if you like, comb sterilisation for me would be a last resort because of the amount of work involved large scale, treating hundreds/thousands of boxes with comb sterilisation is unlikely to be viable for most commercial beekeepers unless it’s absolutely necessary.

I have a feeling that comb sterilisation is not the only answer to the question but it’s more information than we had before.

 

It is easy for someone to remain mostly unconcerned with things happening around them until it starts happening to them, then they are jumping around demanding instant answers and expecting them for free.

It really is a shame because a levy does have great potential, perhaps if APINZ were slightly more down to earth this would have gone more smoothly, all their campaign has achieved to date is to turn many people from apathy to hatred.

 

 

 

Also.

The next person to single someone out will be getting a warning from admin.

Cut the crap.

Ive had enough. Act like adults please

 

 

 

 

Is there anyone on this site that is not a moderator???

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Just now, Frederick said:

We'll have to agree to disagree there Daley.

I just don't see the corporates having weight of numbers vote wise and I certainly don't see the corporates all agreeing either and block voting either!

 

You would most likely know better than I, Keith.

But it’s just not a risk I am comfortable taking.

And for me there is still the issue of where the bulk of the money being spent.

And the fact we are to pay wether or not we have sold our honey.

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2 minutes ago, Ted said:

Is there anyone on this site that is not a moderator???

😂 It doesn’t have to be a big deal Ted.

Don’t worry I’m not really a moderate person, that’s why we need so many, most of us are too relaxed.

 

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1 minute ago, Daley said:

You would most likely know better than I, Keith.

But it’s just not a risk I am comfortable taking.

And for me there is still the issue of where the bulk of the money being spent.

And the fact we are to pay wether or not we have sold our honey.

The spends pretty straight forward: It'll ultimately be set by the Commercial sector (those paying).

Payment; can't help you there a fact is a fact; I'll live with it!

 

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2 minutes ago, Frederick said:

The spends pretty straight forward: It'll ultimately be set by the Commercial sector (those paying).

Payment; can't help you there a fact is a fact; I'll live with it!

 

I will too if I have to 🤷‍♀️

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Ive asked this question before,
Who are these corporates that we need to avoid?

If they are to be singled out as an entity @Daley shouldn't a definition be included?
 

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