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frazzledfozzle

Honey demand, facts not speculation

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16 hours ago, Dennis Crowley said:

 

What did you see in regards to non manuka honeys?

 

The question many of us are asking @Adam Boot

 

Quote

 

 

Edited by fieldbee

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1 hour ago, frazzledfozzle said:

Also wondering @Adam Boot if the picture looks so rosy why is no one buying Manuka ?

I think there is Manuka selling, just maybe the cream?? And those selling are keeping a tight lid on details?? 

No one has shown interest in our clover.  I tried those two asking or 'all' types of honey wanted in the free Beekeeper.  Nicks. 

this rain is much needed- 

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Talking with some visiting relatives from clog land. Love our creamed pasture blends.  There main supermarkets sell cheap honeys sourced from 'E.U and Non E.U' countries.  Any place. 

Not many other options - Local Dutch honey is expensive compared- but not sold in the big supermarkets, more select stores. 

This https://www.ah.nl/zoeken?query=honing  is Albert Heijn -  Surely New Zealand honey could find a place on the shelf for discerning customers?? 

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23 hours ago, Dennis Crowley said:

A very good post Adam and is what I have been hearing as well.

It frustrates me that beekeepers don't see the connection we have with the market place, and don't see/act like that all their income for them to do all the other stuff they want to do with their bee hives comes from the market place. this us(beekeepers) and them(packers honey buyers) attitude has to stop if we are to grow and keep our place in the markets at good prices and volume.

What did you see in regards to non manuka honeys?

 

Hi Denis 

There is a lot of non Manuka business out there. It is a very busy and competitive hunting ground. Clover, clover blends and bush honey of varying forms are prolific. Global prices in this market are very low. High volume is available at very low margin. 

4 hours ago, Gino de Graaf said:

Talking with some visiting relatives from clog land. Love our creamed pasture blends.  There main supermarkets sell cheap honeys sourced from 'E.U and Non E.U' countries.  Any place. 

Not many other options - Local Dutch honey is expensive compared- but not sold in the big supermarkets, more select stores. 

This https://www.ah.nl/zoeken?query=honing  is Albert Heijn -  Surely New Zealand honey could find a place on the shelf for discerning customers?? 

I am happy to take a crack at any market if it can deliver value. there is no sought that consumers will pay a premium for New Zealand honey. The premium though is small, maybe 15-20%.

If you look at some of the prices via this link you can see honey retailing at less than the NZ bulk price. 

5 hours ago, Bushy said:

Very interesting report @Adam Boot. Thanks. Sorry, while you don't deserve a 'but' I need to add one.

The unfortunate side of chasing the high value/low volume side of any product, is what happens to the remaining volume, and what effect it has on an industry.

 

For the last ten years the major players have been telling the world if it isn't Manuka, it's not worth eating. They were so successful with this message, that when MPI created a standard that only allowed a small% of product to meet the "new" standard, who on earth would touch the rest of the honey produced in NZ.

 

While in no way am I blaming your company Adam, you are continuing the message.

It is an interesting discussion point as to who is most to blame for our industry situation. The exporter who created the hype of endless riches for anything related to Manuka, or the producer who blindly took their greed and produced endless quantities of a product they knew was not Manuka.

 

Now I know it can take years to develop new products/markets, but my question to you Adam is fairly simple.

 

With your market knowledge, is there any chance of creating a sustainable international market for 10000T of native bush flavoured non Manuka honey in next two years that can pay a living return of a minimum $6-$9kg ex gate.

 

Not saying can you do it, just is it realistic. With near a million hives, this surplus is growing every year, and if your answer is maybe, then the false hope many are relying on at the moment is not going to pay the bills.

 

NOTE: Because we all know Manuka varies in quality and quantity every year, your top % Manuka may well disappear if the producer is stuck with their failed Manuka every third year.

Always good to get a but. No apology needed. 

You have a good point. However I come from the position that New Zealand is a small producer on a global stage. If the world honey market is approx 2 million tonnes per annum, we as New Zealand Honey Inc have to find a market for less than 2% of the global demand. Within that demand there is honey sold at $100+ per kg and honey sold at $4 per kg. The majority is sold at far less than $10

How good are we at creating a value proposition that resonates? How good are we at selling and developing markets? How good are we at New Product Development? How good are we at marketing?

 

In answer to your question - 'With your market knowledge, is there any chance of creating a sustainable international market for 10000T of native bush flavoured non Manuka honey in next two years that can pay a living return of a minimum $6-$9kg ex gate' 

 

Yes - You will need a multiple of companies coming up with great ideas and marketing strategies and  value propositions that creates a tangible reason for the consumer. A reason that supersedes price by the required %.  There is a big difference between $6 and $9 it may be that market penetration requires $5 - $7 for a period. 

 

Have we got enough companies capable of this? 

 

 

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@Adam Boot
Good piece Adam
A post or two back you used Champagne and Caviar as examples in a Marketing comparison.
Personally I understand what Champagne is and how it is consumed, same for Caviar
How do international consumers use Manuka Honey?  




 

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15 hours ago, Philbee said:

@Adam Boot
Good piece Adam
A post or two back you used Champagne and Caviar as examples in a Marketing comparison.
Personally I understand what Champagne is and how it is consumed, same for Caviar
How do international consumers use Manuka Honey?  




 

It is definitely perceived as a health food and natural medicinal suppliment. Consumed as part of a healthy diet and wellness lifestyle. 

On 21/04/2019 at 1:38 PM, frazzledfozzle said:

Also wondering @Adam Boot if the picture looks so rosy why is no one buying Manuka ?

That is a very broad statement and not entirely accurate. Some companies are not buying or buying in reduced quantities. Other companies are buying and buying in increased quantities. 

Those that are buying are being more selective and discerning. Quality and marker levels are paramount.   

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1 hour ago, Adam Boot said:

 

Those that are buying are being more selective and discerning. Quality and marker levels are paramount.   

 

Thanks for your reply.

Yes I certainly understand that as its what we are experiencing.

I would be very keen on your opinion regarding the quality side of the equation.

Would it be fair to say that mono only just passing the MPI standard is unable to be blended with the stockpile of bush honey that's rattling around in packers sheds right now so is not being bought ?

 

Would it be worth hoping that once the bush stockpile has gone we may see packers buying the lower standard honey at a reasonable price or will they only be interested in the manuka with high numbers so they can continue buying the bush honey at now record low prices and keep blending ? 

 

Hard to know what to do if we don't produce high marker manuka but do produce manuka.

 

I guess every company buys differently but do you see an upturn in the sale of low marker mono from beekeeper to packer for a good price ?

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I think a comprehensive understanding of the current blending practices would be very interesting. Not something packers/marketers/exporters would want to talk about publicly I expect but I wonder if you have hit the nail on the head @frazzledfozzle.

I do recall asking Adam on a thread if there premium products were subject of blending and not seeing a response. Certainly the  expensive "Manuka" honey I have seen seemed to bear little resemblance to raw (sieved out of the extractor) honey I have here.

Edited by Ali

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39 minutes ago, Ali said:

I think a comprehensive understanding of the current blending practices would be very interesting. Not something packers/marketers/exporters would want to talk about publicly I expect but I wonder if you have hit the nail on the head @frazzledfozzle.

I do recall asking Adam on a thread if there premium products were subject of blending and not seeing a response. Certainly the  expensive "Manuka" honey I have seen seemed to bear little resemblance to raw (sieved out of the extractor) honey I have here.

You are now getting into an area specific to each companies valuable IP. I do not think any major producer is going to give an explanation of blending complexities. We can all apply a little common sense though. Honey does not arrive in beautifully prepared 2 of 4 tonne batches ready to go into a jar and the specific grade required. Barrels are 320kg and production runs are in tonnes. The combined tonnage has to pass the MPI definition DNA and all four markers and then all be at a specific grade requirement. 5+, 10+, 15+ etc Also 99% of all high grade Manuka is creamed. It is unlikely to look as it was when extracted. 

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4 hours ago, Adam Boot said:

You are now getting into an area specific to each companies valuable IP. I do not think any major producer is going to give an explanation of blending complexities.

 

If we forget about the blending right now what are your thoughts on the saleability of mono Manuka that just makes the MPI standard both now and over the next 2-5 years?

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1 hour ago, frazzledfozzle said:

 

If we forget about the blending right now what are your thoughts on the saleability of mono Manuka that just makes the MPI standard both now and over the next 2-5 years?

Strong. Differing by grade and by C4 levels

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