Jump to content
JohnF

Equitable funding model for NZ specific issues

Recommended Posts

11 hours ago, Pinnacle said:

Interesting thanks - certainly common themes.

 

id be prepared to bet the relative importance changes year to year though 😁

 

I agree.

Varroa and the staples being chief among them. I can't speak as to the funding of any research funds but I would hope that there are always short-term funds available for projects that require urgent investigation - whether its market research, effects of something found in honey or the fact that honeydew is toxic to varroa due to the specific gene that has been found in their genetic makeup

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Just now, JohnF said:

 

I agree.

Varroa and the staples being chief among them. I can't speak as to the funding of any research funds but I would hope that there are always short-term funds available for projects that require urgent investigation - whether its market research, effects of something found in honey or the fact that honeydew is toxic to varroa due to the specific gene that has been found in their genetic makeup

John I guess my main concern is that the interesting ideas or longer term projects starting to bear fruit get starved of funding because whatever is the hot topic of the day gets all the attention.  My fear is that those with a longer term view incl many of our scientists, will get drowned out by those with the loudest voice.

 

in saying that I don't really have a smart alternative, so maybe I should leave it at that 😄

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On ‎11‎/‎02‎/‎2019 at 4:33 PM, frazzledfozzle said:

i won’t pay 10c kg on honey We can’t even sell to educate supposed commercial beekeepers how to beekeep and how to become a decent human being with morals and a sense of what’s right and wrong.

what a load of absolute junk.

 

i should add that this is my opinion alone not both of us as one of us is completely mistrusting of all things official and one of us isn’t.

lucky we only get one vote and I’m the one who knows how to turn on the computer :) 

 

This is not an ApiNZ statement - this was a survey of beekeepers. So what you're saying is 'the majority of you are taking absolute junk' ?

 

Again, as pointed out, some aspects may need updating. If there's another poor manuka season or a good season but no-one is buying, then priorities around non-manuka honey may (and likely will!) change, one might expect.

 

The survey isn't binding - it was to see what sort of issues beekeepers felt were most important.

I can't upload the file that goes into each part (with different project ideas under each area) as the file is 5MB. Anyone is welcome to contact me via dnature to get a copy, if you haven't seen it.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
13 minutes ago, Pinnacle said:

John I guess my main concern is that the interesting ideas or longer term projects starting to bear fruit get starved of funding because whatever is the hot topic of the day gets all the attention.  My fear is that those with a longer term view incl many of our scientists, will get drowned out by those with the loudest voice.

 

in saying that I don't really have a smart alternative, so maybe I should leave it at that 😄

 

Potentially a % of funds could be fenced for 6 month projects - then 6-12 month projects - and then up to 2 years? 2 year projects may attract a smaller percentage of funding of total project costs.

I'm just throwing ideas out. . . .

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 minutes ago, JohnF said:

 

Potentially a % of funds could be fenced for 6 month projects - then 6-12 month projects - and then up to 2 years? 2 year projects may attract a smaller percentage of funding of total project costs.

I'm just throwing ideas out. . . .

Realistically , how far does $2million go as far as research is concerned ?

 

Broad ‘how long’s a bit of string ‘ question I know , but I’m thinking the gear you guys use costs a bomb for a start 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 minutes ago, M4tt said:

Realistically , how far does $2million go as far as research is concerned ?

 

Broad ‘how long’s a bit of string ‘ question I know , but I’m thinking the gear you guys use costs a bomb for a start 

 

Research is proposed at 40% of the estimated $2 million levy. But with industry funding, it opens up co-funding. So your $2 million figure is pretty good @M4tt

A useful project might start at around $10,000 Matt. It may be that the industry does not have to solely fund the project but show the industry support for an idea (by way of seed money) that then opens other funding avenues.

Other projects might be in the order of $50-100K  (total cost). If you look at the Sustainable Farming Fund, they have (or used to) projects for under $20,000 funding - 20 to 200,000 and over $200,000. Pretty hand wavy there (while holding that bit of string)

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

My concern is that 2 million dollars is not a lot of money.

In my view the Tax payer of NZ should match that dollar for dollar and this actually goes against my core beliefs but would make an exception in this case, such is its importance
 

Edited by Philbee

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
12 minutes ago, Philbee said:

My concern is that 2 million dollars is not a lot of money.

In my view the Tax payer of NZ should match that dollar for dollar and this actually goes against my core beliefs but would make an exception in this case, such is its importance
 

 

It allows co-funding to be leveraged. A project may only need 5 or 10% industry funding and then it attracts university funds or other research funds.

2 million may not seem a lot but when the current input is zero from collective industry. .  . .it can do a lot of collective good.

The taxpayer *will* be matching the 1 million or so of any levy money . .  .government co-funding becomes available

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, JohnF said:

 

This is not an ApiNZ statement - this was a survey of beekeepers. So what you're saying is 'the majority of you are taking absolute junk' ?

 

I would doubt its a majority of beekeepers I would bet it’s a tiny minority of beekeepers that bothered to do the survey.

 

and yes if commercial beekeepers think levy money needs to be spent on beekeeper education and etiquette it’s a load of junk.

 

of course it’s only my opinion and means absolutely nothing in the scheme of things.

Edited by frazzledfozzle
  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
24 minutes ago, frazzledfozzle said:

beekeeper education and etiquette

There may be a few ways to interpret this Frazzol

On one hand it may appear to be teaching Beeks to suck eggs but on the other hand it may mean that a third party is prepared address  these issues in a way and at a level that hasn't been done before.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hello everybody.
I am Alex, from Switzerland.
I joined nzbees.net because my company is BeeHelpful SA, a swiss based start-up company.
We spent the last 12 years R&D to solve many of honeybee problems we know well, as we are beekeepers ourselves.
We succeeded.

In the last 12 years, first in the world we explored the dynamic interaction between environment - hive - colony: regarding colony dynamic interaction the hive matters much more than everybody expected.
Biologists say honeybee, as an insect, is a "cold blood" animal; it's not.
A colony is a super-organism and NEEDS temperature.
Broodless colony must keep the queen at a temperature not less then 27°C: over winter effort
During any other season of the year, brood requires 36°C.
It is much more a thermodynamic problem than a biological one.
Honeybees evolved to produce honey as the best sugar (fuel) to be converted as quick as possible in thermal energy.

We re-designed the hive to provide the best nest ever in terms of thermodynamic efficiency.
No modification on the super honey boxes: same Langstroth / Dadant frames for harvesting honey and extraction equipments
We have tested the first industrial prototypes since 2011.
Since 2017 we are using the final version, PrimalBee® System, and the results are amazing.

Here a short list of PrimalBee® System achievements:
1. Double size colony population, respect to standard hive.
2. Reduce varroa mite infestation ratio.
3. Increase flight activity up to three times, resulting in more nectar harvesting and/or pollination capability.
4. Stabilize colony loss to 10%, at steady state.
5. Improve performance by 300%, accordingly to thermodynamic hive parameter.
6. Compatible with management techniques and standard treatments.
7. Reach performances with formic acid treatment only.
8. Reduce management time by 70% .
9. Reduce artificial feeding drastically.
Colony only needs 4 kg/year/hive syrup, at steady state and far from blossoming season.
10. Stop brood diseases.
Since 2011 no brood diseases at all have been detected in usually well infested locations.
11. Extend artificial swarming production season.
12. Replicable worldwide.
Successful tests were made in hot Israel desert, European plain and high cold Alps pastures.
13. Convenient for commercial beekeeper operations, due to the colonies stabilization, enhanced productivity, reduced management time and optimized handling1.
14. Apt for beginners as well as for junior beekeepers, due to a quick learning curve and robust results.

We are at the beginning of our commercial operation and we are looking for potential beekeeper customers in NZ.
I kindly ask you all to take a look at this video of ours to look at our new hive:

https://youtu.be/dyo5xqEwvlE

We are at your disposal for any further info you might need.

Thanks to everybody
Alex


Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
10 hours ago, JohnF said:

 

Research is proposed at 40% of the estimated $2 million levy. But with industry funding, it opens up co-funding. So your $2 million figure is pretty good @M4tt

A useful project might start at around $10,000 Matt. It may be that the industry does not have to solely fund the project but show the industry support for an idea (by way of seed money) that then opens other funding avenues.

Other projects might be in the order of $50-100K  (total cost). If you look at the Sustainable Farming Fund, they have (or used to) projects for under $20,000 funding - 20 to 200,000 and over $200,000. Pretty hand wavy there (while holding that bit of string)

Thankyou 

 

This is good information 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
8 hours ago, Philbee said:

There may be a few ways to interpret this Frazzol

On one hand it may appear to be teaching Beeks to suck eggs but on the other hand it may mean that a third party is prepared address  these issues in a way and at a level that hasn't been done before.

 

Yes and I don’t like it .

The only way to stop overcrowding is by regulation.

good luck with being on the right side of the ledger when it comes to the little guy coming up against the big guy.

  • Agree 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, frazzledfozzle said:

 

Yes and I don’t like it .

The only way to stop overcrowding is by regulation.

good luck with being on the right side of the ledger when it comes to the little guy coming up against the big guy.

 

You have me very confused Frazzled. 

Are you calling for legislation to manage hive overcrowding?

 

And are you the same person who said in a post on 27th January in the thread "Are you a member of APINZ?'

"Apart from that Im just so sick and tired of working my ring out to hand over most of my money to pen pushers,

whether that the IRD , ACC , the labs for all the testing, OSH and all there requirements , MPI and all their fees and Levy’s Im just over being robbed blind 

So I’m feeling very negative right now."

 

My concern is that you have no idea what side of the hive you should stand.

And you would feel a lot better to not make any contribution to our society other than by criticism. 

 

The Beekeeping Industry has always supported the small guy.

There are many Beekeepers who originally started as hobby beekeepers.

And over time they have successfully risen through the industry. 

But there are also corporates and large family owned corporates,  that have also been very successful over a number of generations.

This is very common in other sectors of NZ's primary industry. 

 

We can as an industry be free loaders on others - an excellent example is the work Barry Foster and Dr John McLean (both members of Api NZ Science and Research Focus Group) have done on organising the opportunity to import and test a predator for Giant Willow Aphid.

Of the groups involved (Zespri, Pip Fruit, Regional Councils etc) Beekeeping is the only one not making a financial contribution to this research as we do not have a levy.

This research only benefits those who harvest willow nectar and pollen.

The other option is to leverage the funding from a levy so that the Beekeepers can conduct more research in other areas.

 

Lets start thinking about what we can do as an industry rather than ranting about our personal preferences. 

I am certain that with us all working together we can improve this industry.

 

 

Edited by Don Mac
  • Like 1
  • Disagree 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I always used to think about what we could do as an industry and how we can help each other but times have changed and it is now a dog eat dog world in beekeeping.In effect I am being asked to partner with new beekeepers who have placed hives far too close to mine and severely affected my production and corporate's that have taken away many of my manuka sites by offering ridiculous sums to run ridiculous amounts of hives only to move on in a year or two because what they were doing was totally unsustainable.

Many new beekeepers and all of the corporate's seem to regard New Zealand as a place empty of beehives just waiting to be filled up.  There are certainly subjects that urgently need research but those of us that have been on beekeeping for a long time know what each area we keep bees in can sustain and most of those so-called empty spaces were filled up a generation ago. It would be funny if it wasn't so damaging watching the corporations squabble amongst themselves playing musical beehives and coming up with new excuses for their shareholders every time they fail to meet expectations instead of looking at why year after year they fail. But hey, it's someone else's money and next year I'm sure they will get 100 kg of manuka  per hive

 

  • Like 2
  • Agree 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Don Mac said:

 

You have me very confused Frazzled. 

Are you calling for legislation to manage hive overcrowding?

 

No of course not! That is what worries me because if there's legislation brought in the big guys win over everyone every time. 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Don Mac said:

Lets start thinking about what we can do as an industry rather than ranting about our personal preferences. 

 

What do you do for a living ? 

Do you rely on bees for an income ?

 

Ranting ? Yes I will give u that 

 

Personal preference ?

I think we all like to stand up for what we feel is right and would help us the most. 

  • Like 1
  • Agree 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Don Mac said:

My concern is that you have no idea what side of the hive you should stand.

And you would feel a lot better to not make any contribution to our society other than by criticism

 

That's a pretty big call when you have never met me.

Just because my thoughts don't mirror yours does not make me these things. 

 

Play the ball not the man Don Mac.

 

  • Agree 4

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Looking in from the outside I think the research wishlist is hilarious. Here's everyone wanting to learn how to produce more honey with less effort and they can't sell the honey they're already producing. 

  • Like 1
  • Agree 2
  • Haha 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now

×