Jump to content
JohnF

Equitable funding model for NZ specific issues

Recommended Posts

In the absence of a levy to fund research into NZ-specific apiculture issues, how would a fair and equitable funding model look ?

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

As I understand the aims of NZ Beekeeping Inc, they intend to run a group attractive enough to particularly small to medium beekeeping businesses to generate the funds through subs and educational events to provide enough surplus funds to selectively contribute to the research projects which would benefit their members. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
33 minutes ago, JohnF said:

NZ-specific apiculture issues

How many of these are there ?

Edited by yesbut

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Sailabee said:

As I understand the aims of NZ Beekeeping Inc, they intend to run a group attractive enough to particularly small to medium beekeeping businesses to generate the funds through subs and educational events to provide enough surplus funds to selectively contribute to the research projects which would benefit their members. 

 

So a portion of a voluntary organisation subscription? is that a fixed subscription cost per member @Sailabee or dependent on size of operation?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

As decided at the AGM from those asking for funds for research.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I figured most bee keeping business are levied at 30 odd cents per $ profit.

Plenty of money for research on climate change, obesity, dolphins etc.

Wouldn't it be best for Aunty Jacinda to be running a country full of healthy, productive hives?

Maybe we need more of a lobby group like fed farmers (for want of a better example) to bang the drum about issues that require research.

  • Agree 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, potz said:

Wouldn't it be best for Aunty Jacinda to be running a country full of healthy, productive hives?

Precisely Potz, but there can be a big difference between what is  logical and what is going to happen

My personal view is that Bees are a national treasure and cornerstone of agriculture

Their well being is ultimately the responsibility of the state, however it is highly unlikely that state in general would accept this idea.

 

Having said that, maybe there are those in the halls of power who understand this and see the states responsibility  as one of ensuring that we manage our industry in an and equable manner 

If we fail to do this I wouldn't be surprised to see some decisions made arbitrarily. 

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

should have read profitable hives too.

Maybe fair and equitable funding is a bit of a stretch, any body got Shane Jones' number?

 

  • Haha 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
7 hours ago, yesbut said:

How many of these are there ?

 

Quite a few - attached are the results of the survey @Pike carried out -the whole file is available if not seen.

Grr, *not* attached. Anyone else having problems attaching pictures?

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6 hours ago, Sailabee said:

As decided at the AGM from those asking for funds for research.

 

Sorry, that's how funds are awarded? But how are they collected? Based on size of member's operation? Or fixed subscription cost for all?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

For those that want to see those beekeeping priorities - also laid out in the current NZ Beekeeper. If anyone wants to see the whole file Pike produced then happy to upload

 

Relying on the government to fund apiculture research? Let's ask ourselves how well that has worked to date . . . .

That's sounds more snide than I mean it to  - but I live by the 'insanity is doing the same thing over and over - and expecting different results'

 

research priorties.png

  • Thanks 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

So detection and prevention of AFB , treatment of varroa and and Biosecurity are the top three.

2 of those we already pay for , AFB and Biosecurity with the GI A in thevwings to take even more money from us. Treatment of varroa? If the US and Europe haven’t found an answer I doubt we will so in the meantime I will be using @Philbee‘s staples, developed without putting his hand out for others to fund his R&D.

 

0.14 research into other nz honeys and 0.04 into finance, economic’s and marketing

5th and 2nd from the bottom.

beekeeper education and beekeeper behaviour come way above these.

so all these things in a nutshell is why I don’t support a levy.

i won’t pay 10c kg on honey We can’t even sell to educate supposed commercial beekeepers how to beekeep and how to become a decent human being with morals and a sense of what’s right and wrong.

what a load of absolute junk.

 

i should add that this is my opinion alone not both of us as one of us is completely mistrusting of all things official and one of us isn’t.

lucky we only get one vote and I’m the one who knows how to turn on the computer :) 

Edited by frazzledfozzle
  • Like 5
  • Haha 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Unfortunately when I filled out Pike’s survey ,varroa and it’s control , or rather , raging out of control , was at the forefront of my mind . 

Since I got onto @Philbee‘s staples , and enjoyed the results I have with them , my prioritisation of research topics would now be different .

That survey is out of date 

  • Agree 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 7/02/2019 at 3:01 PM, yesbut said:

How many of these are there ?

 

On 7/02/2019 at 10:32 PM, JohnF said:

 

Quite a few - attached are the results of the survey @Pike carried out -the whole file is available if not seen.

Grr, *not* attached. Anyone else having problems attaching pictures?

 

Quite a few of those are not NZ specific. Why pay to re-invent the overseas wheel ?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

As far as research goes I'm not so much focused on anyone subject as on keeping a viable research team going for those times when we really need them. There are a lot of things that need research and even Phils staples are one of those but we must also consider the future when undoubtedly new challenges will face us and hopefully our well-trained and up to speed scientists.

  • Like 4

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

There are 2 big challenges here with this method for setting research priority (and Matt touches on it above):

 

the first is that at any point in time when you survey beekeepers, Whatever is the issue du jour will stand out as needing the most research focus.  This can easily change year to year.

 

Secondly one beekeepers issues may not at all be a reflection of another’s.  Frazzledfozzle above comments that marketing is of lesser interest than some other issues such as beekeeper education/behaviour (hope I’ve got that right, apologise if I don’t).  Personally other beekeeper behaviour/education has minor impact on my business so it really wouldn’t worry me at all if zero funds were spent on these.  However I see research into special uses/qualities of other NZ mono floral honeys and, yes, marketing, as being crucial to the future of our industry - grow the returns received.

 

some years ago I was involved in the avocado industry - at that time they were annually surveying growers for research priorities - if it was a wet year previous, everyone wanted money spent on preventing diseases, if it was a bad mite year, everyone wanted money spent on mite control, mites were often worse in the far north compared to BOP growing regions, so there would be a split of demands there.  The next year, a new survey and it all changed again - frankly it was a shambles and made it difficult to make any real progress anywhere.  As per usual the loudest voices at any point seem to have the most influence.

 

As John F and others will no doubt tell you, a lot of the big issues require work year after year to make progress.  Surveys are a useful piece of info, but in reality? A 5-10 year plan at least has to be set and perhaps reviewed every couple years.

 

and regardless of how the money is set, APINZ (or whoever holds the purse) will NEVER keep everyone happy!

 

 

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 hours ago, M4tt said:

Unfortunately when I filled out Pike’s survey ,varroa and it’s control , or rather , raging out of control , was at the forefront of my mind . 

Since I got onto @Philbee‘s staples , and enjoyed the results I have with them , my prioritisation of research topics would now be different .

That survey is out of date 

 

To be fair Matt, its nnly 6 months old. And the beekeepers on the forum are ahead of the curve as 'early adopters' of the OA/GL staples. But yes, can understand why varroa control may rank differently now.

Care to list a new top 5 anyone ?

  • Agree 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 hours ago, yesbut said:

 

Quite a few of those are not NZ specific. Why pay to re-invent the overseas wheel ?

 

Because NZ research is often faster and cheaper to do. There may be solutions to issues (eg AFB viruses aka bacteriophage) that will never be allowed into New Zealand, as 'new organisms'. Therefore an Auckland group are hunting for NZ bacteriophage for AFB.

Also, NZ priorities may differ from ones overseas. How is AFB increasing overseas compared to the 15% here in NZ ?

  • Like 1
  • Thanks 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, Pinnacle said:

As John F and others will no doubt tell you, a lot of the big issues require work year after year to make progress.  Surveys are a useful piece of info, but in reality? A 5-10 year plan at least has to be set and perhaps reviewed every couple years.

 

and regardless of how the money is set, APINZ (or whoever holds the purse) will NEVER keep everyone happy!

 

 

Yes, some projects may require longer term funding - but my hope would be that there are some shorter terms projects that can show some immediate benefits to funding research.

One of the things I should have shown, is that @Pike's survey actually split out the answers by commercial vs hobbiest (expanded view uploaded with the split at the bottom)

commercial vs hobbiest.PNG

  • Like 1
  • Thanks 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
11 hours ago, JohnF said:

 

Yes, some projects may require longer term funding - but my hope would be that there are some shorter terms projects that can show some immediate benefits to funding research.

One of the things I should have shown, is that @Pike's survey actually split out the answers by commercial vs hobbiest (expanded view uploaded with the split at the bottom)

commercial vs hobbiest.PNG

Interesting thanks - certainly common themes.

 

id be prepared to bet the relative importance changes year to year though 😁

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

IMO the wolf was at the door with regard Varroa
There were two issues, one of efficacy and one of expense.
What the Staple has done is address both issues to a significant degree which has in turn leveraged us some time.

Funds that may have been required immediately for one area of research can now be partly or wholly diverted to another.
I learned in the ring, It aint over till its over and it aint over,

Never will be.

  • Like 1
  • Agree 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
17 hours ago, Pinnacle said:

Secondly one beekeepers issues may not at all be a reflection of another’s.  Frazzledfozzle above comments that marketing is of lesser interest than some other issues such as beekeeper education/behaviour (hope I’ve got that right, apologise if I don’t).  Personally other beekeeper behaviour/education has minor impact on my business so it really wouldn’t worry me at all if zero funds were spent on these.  However I see research into special uses/qualities of other NZ mono floral honeys and, yes, marketing, as being crucial to the future of our industry - grow the returns received.

 

No you didn’t get it right but kind of did :) 

 

marketing of our other honeys is 100% more important than anything on that list and like you beekeeper education and etiquette has no bearing on our beekeeping or keeping our business viable. 

 

Edit you got it right that the survey results put marketing down the bottom of the shopping list but for us personally it’s right at the very top.

Edited by frazzledfozzle
  • Haha 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
14 hours ago, JohnF said:

 

Yes, some projects may require longer term funding - but my hope would be that there are some shorter terms projects that can show some immediate benefits to funding research.

One of the things I should have shown, is that @Pike's survey actually split out the answers by commercial vs hobbiest (expanded view uploaded with the split at the bottom)

commercial vs hobbiest.PNG

 

Well the commercials priorities doesn’t make me feel any better.

At the top you have improved Biosecurity.

we already pay MPI to protect our borders and will pay more when Apinz sign the GIA ( which they will do ).

then varroa control, If more beekeepers actually treated their hives with the recommended dose at the recommended time a lot of the problems wouldn’t be there.

Then third top is AFB control, we already pay a hefty levy for control of AFB and those who are responsible deal with any AFB hives without input from anyone.

It doesn’t cost the agency a cent for those beekeepers dealing with their own hives.

 

Look at marketing right down at 0.07% 

So for every beekeeper that voted on levy spending half a person plus an arm per hundred thought marketing was worth putting money into :( 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Sorry @frazzledfozzle I obviously need to pay closer attention. Agree with your points above

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6 hours ago, frazzledfozzle said:

then varroa control, If more beekeepers actually treated their hives with the recommended dose at the recommended time a lot of the problems wouldn’t be there.

re the varroa control, i think it's the combination of both appropriate treatment at the right time AND preventing all those swarms escaping and becoming mite bombs for reinvasion mid-season. There are plenty of beekeepers who control varroa well but let a lot of swarms go..

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now

×
×
  • Create New...