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ApiNZ Levy Proposal

Commodity Levy - Voting Now Open

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16 hours ago, ApiNZ Levy Proposal said:

We do understand the frustration.  The Commodity Levies Act is very prescriptive.  However it is the only mechanism we have for raising funds from all of industry, ensuring that everyone contributes to industry good investment. 

 

OK so you admit it is prescriptive (and so you acknowledge it is not ideal.....) so we can infer the levy being struck is not ideal either.

 

APINZ's primary role is about advocacy for the industry.  Where was the advocacy/lobbying/negotiation skill in getting an appropriate levy designed and agreed to?  Instead APINZ have just fallen back on a flawed Commodities Levies Act. 

 

Why not do it properly the first time?

 

I think it is because of a want to just get money in the door....and I guess if I was running APINZ I'd want to do the same thing....but what is good for APINZ though is not necessarily what is good for the industry.

 

 

Edited by CraBee
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23 hours ago, ApiNZ Levy Proposal said:

ensuring that everyone contributes to industry good investment. 

By that of course to APINZ. There aims, agendas, along with the corporate and packers agenda. Interesting to note an APINZ poster here promoting corporate partnership arrangements for other beeks. The writing on the wall...............

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2 hours ago, Ali said:

By that of course to APINZ. There aims, agendas, along with the corporate and packers agenda. Interesting to note an APINZ poster here promoting corporate partnership arrangements for other beeks. The writing on the wall...............

Ali that was me and it was trying to help other beeks keep some income they would not have had and show the corporate there is a better /another way, what is wrong with that. Those beeks had no access to that land until we partnered with the  corporate, or is that not allowed in your world.

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9 hours ago, CraBee said:

 

OK so you admit it is prescriptive (and so you acknowledge it is not ideal.....) so we can infer the levy being struck is not ideal either.

 

APINZ's primary role is about advocacy for the industry.  Where was the advocacy/lobbying/negotiation skill in getting an appropriate levy designed and agreed to?  Instead APINZ have just fallen back on a flawed Commodities Levies Act. 

 

Why not do it properly the first time?

 

I think it is because of a want to just get money in the door....and I guess if I was running APINZ I'd want to do the same thing....but what is good for APINZ though is not necessarily what is good for the industry.

 

 

Crabee the only other way to raise funds for industry is by volunteering to pay, and that is where this industry has been for last how many years.

We have you should have your voting papers by now.

The Commodity Levy Act is very descriptive, it maybe flawed but it is what we have got to work with, even so it has been working very well for the other 31 industries for years.

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49 minutes ago, Dennis Crowley said:

Crabee the only other way to raise funds for industry is by volunteering to pay, and that is where this industry has been for last how many years.

We have you should have your voting papers by now.

The Commodity Levy Act is very descriptive, it maybe flawed but it is what we have got to work with, even so it has been working very well for the other 31 industries for years.

 

I would be interested to know if the kiwifruit industry has a levy and if it does do the growers of green kiwifruit pay the same levy as those growing gold

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This is part of an email the came through I think it’s from Apinz but came through from the AFBPMP.

 

Quote

The email content has included some inaccurate ‘alternative facts’ which we’d like the opportunity to correct:

  • The Australian levy is 4.6c/kg, not 2.3c/kg wrongly stated in the email. On the surface of it, the Australian levy seems much cheaper at 4.6c/kg compared to ours at 10c/kg.
    BUT:
    Australia’s average yield from a hive is known to be higher than New Zealand's (three to five times higher than New Zealand's average). Therefore, at 4.6c/kg, Australia’s levy rate is actually about the same or higher than the rate being proposed by ApiNZ, not lower as claimed.
     

 

Am I right in thinking that even if the Aussies pay more because they produce more it still works out so much more affordable for them if they are making more than $300 per hive worth of honey whereas we are probably making less than $100 per hive.

Assuming $4kg selling price 

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1 hour ago, Dennis Crowley said:

Ali that was me and it was trying to help other beeks keep some income they would not have had and show the corporate there is a better /another way, what is wrong with that. Those beeks had no access to that land until we partnered with the  corporate, or is that not allowed in your world.

I would just hate to think that most may end up partnering with the corps one way or the other be it to sell honey, leasing/share managing hives or in future quota perhaps.

Yes it is a changing world I know and we do what we think best or simply just have to do to get by.  I am sure the beeks concerned have benefitted and that has to be a good thing for them. That said I don't have to sit easily with it all.

It is my view that they (corporates/very large operators have too much hold on the industry already and too many hives that create a miriad of difficulties for the smaller player be it dump sites or over stocking, pillaging areas and thus causing harm/difficulty to local producers. 

I'm a great believer in the family size business and obviously my allegiance lies there (until they too become to large for the wellbeing of others).

Not a personal criticsm @Dennis Crowley, just a view point.

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19 hours ago, Dennis Crowley said:

Crabee the only other way to raise funds for industry is by volunteering to pay, and that is where this industry has been for last how many years.

We have you should have your voting papers by now.

The Commodity Levy Act is very descriptive, it maybe flawed but it is what we have got to work with, even so it has been working very well for the other 31 industries for years.

 

Hi Dennis,  I'm just trying to understand how the regional hubs work.  I see you are the BOP rep.  How do you going about getting in that position?  And then what is your role/what do you do at regional level?   And then how do you tie in with APINZ as a whole.  Note:  none of this is a with a view to have a pot shot, I'm genuinely interested.  

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just answered my own question, @Ali is right about industry capture, basically small producers will have zero say on how the levy is spent. Thoughts @Dennis Crowley:

Voting on the investment of levy funds will be weighted based on declared honey volumes by levy payers.

 

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2 hours ago, tommy dave said:

 

Voting on the investment of levy funds will be weighted based on declared honey volumes by levy payers.

 

Yep. It's a model that has failed the dairy industry big time seeing the big get massive, the small get frustrated , a mass Exodus and an environment that is difficult to staff. 

And that's not just the levy. That's how voting in the dairy industry is structured. 

 

For years I have been warning beekeepers to steer well clear of trying to follow Fonterra because it is not all fancy tankers and multi million dollar salaries. 

 

The guy at the bottom does and keeps doing the hard work and the fun and lifestyle that used to keep him motivated soon dries up and is replaced by compliance and exorpatent costs .

 

Vote NO to the current proposal . I believe status quo will be far less damaging long term 

 

Chasing rainbows and fairies can be gotten cheaper at a toy store 

Edited by M4tt
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On 1 February 2019 at 6:27 PM, frazzledfozzle said:

 

I would be interested to know if the kiwifruit industry has a levy and if it does do the growers of green kiwifruit pay the same levy as those growing gold

Yes they do, and yes different rate for different fruit and they also all pay a bio- security levy as well. The difference to honey is that you don,t need to do a test to tell the difference between fruit, only one buyer being a single desk seller and huge license fees to supply gold fruit.

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6 hours ago, CraBee said:

 

Hi Dennis,  I'm just trying to understand how the regional hubs work.  I see you are the BOP rep.  How do you going about getting in that position?  And then what is your role/what do you do at regional level?   And then how do you tie in with APINZ as a whole.  Note:  none of this is a with a view to have a pot shot, I'm genuinely interested.  

The hubs are basically what were the NBA branches when NBA and BIG became APINZ, and as I was President of the BOP NBA branch I was voted and stayed on as the BOP hub  president.We have several discussion days during the year, evening meetings don't work anymore very few people turn up, also have discussions with Kiwifruit industry on beeks behalf also the councils and I am on the APINZ board as a commercial beekeeper rep.  

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On 30/01/2019 at 8:31 AM, Dennis Crowley said:

M4tt, yes you may feel like that now and i agree i think fonterra/dairy industry has become stale, but for many years before the levy went into lots of research that is now just common sense.

thats the thing with any levy system is that you have to keep changing, Zespri is a good example of forever thinking of the next thing, but they to could become stale if they are not careful. That dosen't mean a levy is of no use, imagine where those industies would be now if they didn't have them, there are dairy and hort industries in other countries that don't match ours for progressive ideas and value to the producer. 

Zespri is probably a great example of what could happen if we end up with the wrong people in charge of this levy and getting most of the say.

They tender hundreds of thousands a hectare to plant Zespri kiwis and the highest bidder takes all.

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16 hours ago, Daley said:

Zespri is probably a great example of what could happen if we end up with the wrong people in charge of this levy and getting most of the say.

They tender hundreds of thousands a hectare to plant Zespri kiwis and the highest bidder takes all.

Yes it is an open tender, ZESPRI don't set the price, they just set the amount of Ha/yr they will release for tendering, the people tendering set the price, ZESPRI just market the fruit.

Those paying the very high dollars know that it is still a very good business proposition.

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50 minutes ago, Dennis Crowley said:

Those paying the very high dollars know that it is still a very good business proposition.

And a hopelessly irrelevant industry comparison

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38 minutes ago, yesbut said:

And a hopelessly irrelevant industry comparison

I wasn't comparing them, just answering frazz questions, but there certainly are some comparisons if you think about how much some are paying for land with manuka or to plant manuka on

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I wasn't referring directly to your comment Dennis, it's the whole idea that as far as this levy carry on goes beeking can  be compared to any other industry. It  can't. It's quirks are totally unique. 

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On 2 February 2019 at 1:34 PM, tommy dave said:

just answered my own question, @Ali is right about industry capture, basically small producers will have zero say on how the levy is spent. Thoughts @Dennis Crowley:

Voting on the investment of levy funds will be weighted based on declared honey volumes by levy payers.

 

 

@Dennis Crowley please clarify the above info given by @tommy dave.

 

The above statement comes from the Levy Brochure which has the pretty pages with little information attached. 

 

HOWEVER in the formal document with all the actual rules (voting information), there is actually zero mention of voting on levy expenditure by levy payers.

Under 2.9 "How will I be able to have a say on how money will be spent",  the answer is levy payers will be able to DISCUSS expenditure of levy at a AGM or special meeting.

 

No mention of voting at all. What if you can not attend the AGM. Who will listen if you do.

 

Given the chairman at the 2019 ApiNZ AGM was upset that the meeting took longer than 1hour, and really annoyed having questions asked, how much REAL input will the majority of levy payers actually have in $2 million dollars of spending money.

 

Yes voting of levy payers will occur on board member elections, but not of levy expenditure.

 

 

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5 hours ago, Bushy said:

 

@Dennis Crowley please clarify the above info given by @tommy dave.

 

The above statement comes from the Levy Brochure which has the pretty pages with little information attached. 

 

HOWEVER in the formal document with all the actual rules (voting information), there is actually zero mention of voting on levy expenditure by levy payers.

Under 2.9 "How will I be able to have a say on how money will be spent",  the answer is levy payers will be able to DISCUSS expenditure of levy at a AGM or special meeting.

 

No mention of voting at all. What if you can not attend the AGM. Who will listen if you do.

 

Given the chairman at the 2019 ApiNZ AGM was upset that the meeting took longer than 1hour, and really annoyed having questions asked, how much REAL input will the majority of levy payers actually have in $2 million dollars of spending money.

 

Yes voting of levy payers will occur on board member elections, but not of levy expenditure.

 

 

this is why i think a yes will be open to legal challenge.

thinking on it, it's either

a) intentional dissemination of false information by someone at api-nz thinking it was a good idea, or

b) unintentional error displaying a level of gross incompetence and negligence that should disqualify the organisation from playing any role in beekeeping.

 

neither is a good look.

Edited by tommy dave
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5 hours ago, Bushy said:

@Dennis Crowley please clarify the above info given by @tommy dave.

 

The above statement comes from the Levy Brochure which has the pretty pages with little information attached. 

 

HOWEVER in the formal document with all the actual rules (voting information), there is actually zero mention of voting on levy expenditure by levy payers.

Under 2.9 "How will I be able to have a say on how money will be spent",  the answer is levy payers will be able to DISCUSS expenditure of levy at a AGM or special meeting.

 

No mention of voting at all. What if you can not attend the AGM. Who will listen if you do.

 

Given the chairman at the 2019 ApiNZ AGM was upset that the meeting took longer than 1hour, and really annoyed having questions asked, how much REAL input will the majority of levy payers actually have in $2 million dollars of spending money.

 

Yes voting of levy payers will occur on board member elections, but not of levy expenditure.

@ApiNZ Levy Proposal, more that needs urgent clarification!

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Here's a question I've been pondering, do the other industries that currently have a commodity levy in place pay their levy when the commodity is produced or when the commodity has been sold?

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36 minutes ago, Harlan Cox said:

Here's a question I've been pondering, do the other industries that currently have a commodity levy in place pay their levy when the commodity is produced or when the commodity has been sold?

 

certainly all the major ones comparable to ApiNZ proposal is at point of sale.

There is a big point of difference with honey though in that we can store our produce for years and it is generally still perfect to eat.

 

Apinz wants levy at production because it is a more reliable income stream, not what is best for Beekeepers business cash flows

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2 hours ago, Harlan Cox said:

Here's a question I've been pondering, do the other industries that currently have a commodity levy in place pay their levy when the commodity is produced or when the commodity has been sold?

The dairy company heists the levy from our milk cheque , so we never see it. So from that point of view, the purchaser  of our raw milk collects the levy 

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14 hours ago, Ali said:

@ApiNZ Levy Proposal, more that needs urgent clarification!

And the silence goes on.................................................

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5 hours ago, Ali said:

And the silence goes on.................................................

could ask how many registered beekeepers are members of apinz while you wait

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