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It has always been thought that drought type conditions were when tutin levels were high. This year in Hawke's Bay anyway this has not been the case and I have heard of several fairly high test results. This morning I received news that three of my batches had failed. Two were from what I regard as a moderate risk area and the other from a  low risk area. A bit of a blow but not something that I will lose sleep over. The testing is there for a reason and it is imperative that Honey is safe.

All commercial honey must be tested but all honey is at risk and just because you have an organic top bar hive does not mean that you cannot poison your friends and family. Some areas undoubtedly have no tutu bushes but it can be very hard to tell what was on the other side of the hill.

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Thanks John that's handy to know.

 

I too had assumed it would not be an issue this season.

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1 hour ago, john berry said:

It has always been thought that drought type conditions were when tutin levels were high. This year in Hawke's Bay anyway this has not been the case and I have heard of several fairly high test results. This morning I received news that three of my batches had failed. Two were from what I regard as a moderate risk area and the other from a  low risk area. A bit of a blow but not something that I will lose sleep over. The testing is there for a reason and it is imperative that Honey is safe.

All commercial honey must be tested but all honey is at risk and just because you have an organic top bar hive does not mean that you cannot poison your friends and family. Some areas undoubtedly have no tutu bushes but it can be very hard to tell what was on the other side of the hill.

Have the bees had losts of other forage .

Do you think they could turn to tutin when food is scarce regardless of the weather 

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We have no tutu within flying distance that I know of , but there are a heck of a lot of passion vine hoppers about this year down in the pines . I presume they are feeding on blackberry vines 

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same here. had one load of 6 drums tested and failed. only just. (012 limit and mine is 0.15)

so made 2 groups of 3. had a bit of an unlucky hand. most tut ended up in one lot.

limit 0.23, i got 0.21. so i would call this a "pass" but it says "may not comply"

so i find that they should adjust their standards to cover for any inconsistencies, cos as much as i believe in compulsive testing, i don't believe in this kinda Micky mouse standards. or at least i need to be told how many points i need to be below the standard to pass.

i'm soooooo over it!!

 

 

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I had no idea this was a thing. What’s the point of this? Is having a larger sample tested an option?

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9 hours ago, tom sayn said:

same here. had one load of 6 drums tested and failed. only just. (012 limit and mine is 0.15)

so made 2 groups of 3. had a bit of an unlucky hand. most tut ended up in one lot.

limit 0.23, i got 0.21. so i would call this a "pass" but it says "may not comply"

so i find that they should adjust their standards to cover for any inconsistencies, cos as much as i believe in compulsive testing, i don't believe in this kinda Micky mouse standards. or at least i need to be told how many points i need to be below the standard to pass.

i'm soooooo over it!!

 

 

 

In the past few years the Tutin standard was lowered to a ridiculously low level.

im all for food safety but the Tutin standard as it is now is just stupid.

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The limit is 0.7 mg per kg. Honey over this limit can be blended with other honey to bring it below this level. The level is set at 100 times lower than has been shown to cause any effects on humans. My worst one was 15.61 so  that honey  is going to have to find a hole somewhere. I will probably remove the apiary this winter as this is the second year in a row it has failed. I should have done some preliminary testing and then left the honey in the frames for winter feed.

Urgent work is needed on  setting a sensible safe level based on science not bureaucratic whim.

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How much to get it tested? And how much do you need to send in?

 

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On 24/01/2019 at 9:25 AM, john berry said:

It has always been thought that drought type conditions were when tutin levels were high. This year in Hawke's Bay anyway this has not been the case and I have heard of several fairly high test results. This morning I received news that three of my batches had failed. Two were from what I regard as a moderate risk area and the other from a  low risk area. A bit of a blow but not something that I will lose sleep over. The testing is there for a reason and it is imperative that Honey is safe.

All commercial honey must be tested but all honey is at risk and just because you have an organic top bar hive does not mean that you cannot poison your friends and family. Some areas undoubtedly have no tutu bushes but it can be very hard to tell what was on the other side of the hill.

I always believed that too. Did you see any vine hoppers around ??? We’re about  to send our honey to the processor, one more thing to worry about. ?

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33 minutes ago, BRB said:

How much to get it tested? And how much do you need to send in?

 

You don't need to consider tutin if your hives are south of Kaikoura

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53 minutes ago, yesbut said:

You don't need to consider tutin if your hives are south of Kaikoura

Thanks. 

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58 minutes ago, yesbut said:

You don't need to consider tutin if your hives are south of Kaikoura

Yet

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John, that Tutin result of 15 is frightening. I thought I had problems in the past with results between 1 and 2.

 

have you ever seen results that high in prior seasons?

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One source of high results can be where a tank-load is not mixed enough to get a properly blended batch. With thicker honey, can take longer than you think to get a proper mix. By the same token can also get too low a result. Not all hobby beeks realise that the more frames they extract at once and fully blend, the more accurate the tutin result.

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18 hours ago, tom sayn said:

same here. had one load of 6 drums tested and failed. only just. (012 limit and mine is 0.15)

so made 2 groups of 3. had a bit of an unlucky hand. most tut ended up in one lot.

limit 0.23, i got 0.21. so i would call this a "pass" but it says "may not comply"

so i find that they should adjust their standards to cover for any inconsistencies, cos as much as i believe in compulsive testing, i don't believe in this kinda Micky mouse standards. or at least i need to be told how many points i need to be below the standard to pass.

i'm soooooo over it!!

 

 

I think ‘may not comply’ is applied to batches, it may pass as a batch but it’s possible that one may not be a pass as a stand alone

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3 hours ago, Pinnacle said:

John, that Tutin result of 15 is frightening. I thought I had problems in the past with results between 1 and 2.

 

have you ever seen results that high in prior seasons?

I haven't but I have heard of results as high as 60.

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59 minutes ago, Daley said:

I think ‘may not comply’ is applied to batches, it may pass as a batch but it’s possible that one may not be a pass as a stand alone

yes, that's exactly what it means.

but the whole idea of the composite sample is, to set the standard low enough so that ever drum passes as individual if the composite sample is under the limit, or it's a complete waist of money.

 

 

 

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1 hour ago, tom sayn said:

yes, that's exactly what it means.

but the whole idea of the composite sample is, to set the standard low enough so that ever drum passes as individual if the composite sample is under the limit, or it's a complete waist of money.

 

 

 

We are fortunate that we are allowed to composite because it saves us a fortune.

But it’s not without risk, if you choose the wrong samples to composite it can end up costing you more and you may end up having to test them individually.

What is the price to put on the consumers life though? 

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1 minute ago, Daley said:

What is the price to put on the consumers life though? 

Depends where they live ?

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9 hours ago, BRB said:

How much to get it tested? And how much do you need to send in?

 

Hills laboratories test for it and the cost is around the $80+ mark they supply the small pottles and courier bags

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3 hours ago, Daley said:

We are fortunate that we are allowed to composite because it saves us a fortune.

But it’s not without risk, if you choose the wrong samples to composite it can end up costing you more and you may end up having to test them individually.

What is the price to put on the consumers life though? 

as i said, my composite sample is under the set limit.

the set limit is not a limit where a health risk arises, but a limit agreed on and far from any consumer health risk.

it's a bit like saying i have to put a 310mm snapper back cos it's too close to the 300mm limit and keeping it puts the snapper population at risk. can anyone tell me how many points you need to be under the limit to get a "pass " instead of a "may not comply"?

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22 hours ago, BRB said:

How much to get it tested? And how much do you need to send in?

 

Just to add to the answer you got above - if your a hobby beek and belong to a club, they often allow you to give a sample to them and the club collects enough to do composite sampling and you’ll pay about $20. You run the risk that someone will send in a sample that fails, and you’ll all need to retest, but it brings the cost down for most members by a large factor.

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I wonder if overstocking on some areas is pushing the bees to forage things they shouldn't. 

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18 hours ago, tom sayn said:

it's a bit like saying i have to put a 310mm snapper back cos it's too close to the 300mm limit and keeping it puts the snapper population at risk. can anyone tell me how many points you need to be under the limit to get a "pass " instead of a "may not comply"?

 

No it isn't the same. And yes I can explain.

 

When you choose to send in a composit sample you are hoping that it tests so far below the threshold that you know that all the batches in that composit must be OK. But if you send in a composit and it is close to the threshold, it means that a particular batch that is part of that composit might be over. You then have to test each batch to find out which one or ones it is.

 

That is par for the course if you choose to mix up composit samples. It means that on this occasion your composit sample has tested close enough that one of the batches in it might be over, and that is the risk you knowingly took when you mixed up the composit. No one can reasonably complain about that, the result is what it is. You now have to test individually to find out which one is over, or, you can blend all your batches so you will have one batch which is under, just. And should have the same result as the composit sample you sent in.

 

 

Edited by Alastair
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