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What is an acceptable margin


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Ok, so the levy.   There are members veermently against it and others pushing hard for a yes.   Looking at other industries that do and don't have levies, are there any good exampl

If there is a yes vote on the levy then I assume we will all become Apinz members including all those disaffected people that formed their own organisations . This will result in some pretty interesti

@Philbee OMG.  Try to find the right emoji but i could not find one. 

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Yesbut, not sure what industry you are in but the majority of NZ's primary industry prodution is produced by price takers, not price makers.

You can look at meat, wool and dairy production and ask the proiducers what margin they are asking for.......the majority would not have a clue.

And they would acknowledge the market sets the price. They are price takers.

 

Beekeeper's have been fortunate that the scientific benefits of Manuka Honey were identified and that meant the industry could set a significantly high price to match consumer demand.

Unfortunately to date we have had very little investment in learning about our other native floral honeys - very little research has been done on Rewarewa honey as an example.

So Yesbut add in the honey levy to your costing and invest some of that hard earned income back into research in our industry.

I look forward to hearing you voted YES for the levy!

 

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9 hours ago, Don Mac said:

 

Unfortunately to date we have had very little investment in learning about our other native floral honeys - very little research has been done on Rewarewa honey as an example.

So Yesbut add in the honey levy to your costing and invest some of that hard earned income back into research in our industry.

I look forward to hearing you voted YES for the levy!

 

 

By the time anything comes of said research a lot of us will have gone tits up .

look how many years it took after Peter Molans findings on Manuka to actually get a market up and running and receive good prices.

We need the packers and marketers out there right now to stimulate interest in our other honeys using Manuka as a springboard if that happened some beekeepers might have a chance of staying afloat .

we don’t need Manuka prices but we do need better prices than being offered right now.

waiting hing for research to pull a rabbit out of the hat is a dangerous game.

Edited by frazzledfozzle
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1 hour ago, frazzledfozzle said:

We need the packers and marketers out there right now to stimulate interest in our other honeys using Manuka as a springboard if that happened some beekeepers might have a chance of staying afloat .

Yet when they pop up here they get blasted ?

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4 hours ago, frazzledfozzle said:

we don’t need Manuka prices but we do need better prices than being offered right now.

waiting hing for research to pull a rabbit out of the hat is a dangerous game.

Yes it is a dangerous game. Even more dangerous is the vote going through for the levy. It will give APINZ the means to control and manipulate the industries primary producers which will be to the detriment of the smaller players while ensuring the survival of the big players and APINZ which is otherwise probably not going to make it long term. What they are doing is essentially a business plan to ensure there own survival and a taking of the power (and money) of the individual.

The agenda we have not seen is the biggest worry! What do you think will be the big players response to the "over stocking" issue???? 

APINZ has been very very quiet about this matter amongst others.

Look at what the results were in the fishing industry and don't forget for a moment that the CEO of APINZ is ex the fishing industry. 

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57 minutes ago, yesbut said:

As the OP I was  trying to tease out opinions on what was acceptable as a margin (on any product) before it became (if ever) a case of greed and ripping off. I shouldn't have mentioned honey.

 

Ethics and economics takes me rushing back to high school debates. There is no answer. 

 

If you only buy honey of the producer and you need honey to exist vs luxury commodities spread on toast bought from supermarkets with a a wide variety of choice and competition. 

 

Does Joe public want to pay more for honey to support keepers... or buy jam?

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8 hours ago, yesbut said:

As the OP I was  trying to tease out opinions on what was acceptable as a margin (on any product) before it became (if ever) a case of greed and ripping off. I shouldn't have mentioned honey.

Its a how long is a piece of string question really. 

 Most people would say an acceptable margin is what provides them the standard of living they want. 

therefore is any standard of living beyond subsistence  luxury ?

 

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On 24/01/2019 at 6:51 AM, frazzledfozzle said:

 

By the time anything comes of said research a lot of us will have gone tits up .

look how many years it took after Peter Molans findings on Manuka to actually get a market up and running and receive good prices.

We need the packers and marketers out there right now to stimulate interest in our other honeys using Manuka as a springboard if that happened some beekeepers might have a chance of staying afloat .

we don’t need Manuka prices but we do need better prices than being offered right now.

waiting hing for research to pull a rabbit out of the hat is a dangerous game.

 

Frazzled, you are right research takes time.

Peter Molan did many many years work before he was accepted and beekeepers began chasing Manuka.

The packers and marketers have no research data to promote other honey products........we need the data to increase the market demand to increase the price!

And we used to have a honey levy, but the old beeks wanted the money in their pockets not for their industry.

So we are starting from scratch again......we have to develop more researchers in bee science.....and Government will not do that.

 

@Jamesc made an interesting observation about improving bee genetics from his experience with bees and calves in this thread.

Beekeepers are in the Primary Production game so look what Beef and Lamb are doing with their industry levy. 

Take a look at the work of Sheep Improvement Limited (SIL). https://www.sil.co.nz/

I cannot purchase a Queen bee with proven indexed performance and genetics, like I can buy a ram for my ewes.

Beekeepers need this science and they need to wake up that they have to fund it. That is why I support the levy.

 

 

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On 24/01/2019 at 11:29 AM, Ali said:

Yes it is a dangerous game. Even more dangerous is the vote going through for the levy. It will give APINZ the means to control and manipulate the industries primary producers which will be to the detriment of the smaller players while ensuring the survival of the big players and APINZ which is otherwise probably not going to make it long term. What they are doing is essentially a business plan to ensure there own survival and a taking of the power (and money) of the individual.

The agenda we have not seen is the biggest worry! What do you think will be the big players response to the "over stocking" issue???? 

APINZ has been very very quiet about this matter amongst others.

Look at what the results were in the fishing industry and don't forget for a moment that the CEO of APINZ is ex the fishing industry. 

Ali you need to stop drinking the conspiracy kool-aid, APINZ has no intention or even has the power to be trying to manipulate producers, the levy spend will be decided by levy payers not APINZ. You need to step back and learn how the other 31 out of the 33 primary industry commodity levies work, 

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51 minutes ago, Dennis Crowley said:

. You need to step back and learn how the other 31 out of the 33 primary industry commodity levies work, 

 

Beekeeping is not like other industries 

the commodity levy for beekeeping could be spent on all manner of things that have no benefit at all to a lot of beekeepers.

Beekeeping is not a one size fits all kind of game.

 

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9 hours ago, frazzledfozzle said:

 

Beekeeping is not like other industries

 

I agree with that. Yes there are similarities with all types of farming/primary producers, but when it comes to $ we are a world away. 

Beef and lamb exports I believe are somewhere around 6 billion. I might be wrong but honey exports I think are less than half a billion. To put that in perspective 1 million seconds = 11.5 days. 1 billion seconds = 31.5 years. 

As a farmer I am comfortable with the levies we pay as I feel we can afford it and overall it is being drawn from a much larger pot. As a beekeeper I am not at all comfortable, our pot is rather small. 

Edited by Daniel Benefield
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41 minutes ago, Daniel Benefield said:

I agree with that. Yes there are similarities with all types of farming/primary producers, but when it comes to $ we are a world away. 

Beef and lamb exports I believe are somewhere around 6 billion. I might be wrong but honey exports I think are less than half a billion. To put that in perspective 1 million seconds = 11.5 days. 1 billion seconds = 31.5 years. 

As a farmer I am comfortable with the levies we pay as I feel we can afford it and overall it is being drawn from a much larger pot. As a beekeeper I am not at all comfortable, our pot is rather small. 

1 million seconds is 11.57 days

 1 billion is less than 4 months not 31 years. But that's being picky. 

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I'd like to be part of an industry that doesn't have 2 or 3 organizations that bitch and moan at each other trying to be top dog. I'm not a member of either and won't until they get their bs sorted and work nicely. NZ beekeepers keep emailing me telling me ApiNZ is trying to manipulate things but The guy at the top of that is a dictator out for his own too so what's the difference.  

We definitely need to do research though. On honey and other bee products.  And on disease without replicating what has been done elsewhere.  Hay. That's my opinion

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20 minutes ago, Mike Fox said:

 The guy at the top of that is a dictator out for his own too so what's the difference.  

 

In NW Beekeeping inc, Jane Lorimer is the President - ex-President and life member of NBA, and the executive are all very experienced beekeepers with each having strong and diverse opinions, and not to be dictated to by anyone, or to pulled off-course by gear sellers and jar fillers.

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18 minutes ago, Trevor Gillbanks said:

1 billion is at least 1000 or 1 million times larger than 1 million.  So therefore at 1000 times larger (the smaller number) is 32 years (approx) compared to 11.57.

Don't work out 1m seconds to 11.57 days. Then multiply by 1000 . Start with 1B seconds=166666minutes=2777 hours=115.7 days=3.8months. 

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It was a long drive home yesterday.

The New Man was rolling like a drunkard on the ferry in a cook strait gale .... so loaded with  worthless honey she was,  and I was ruueing the fact that Stella  with her five hundred horses and  tandem axle  had failed the COF on account of the  blocked windscreen washer hose , and the deck loading plate being obscured by paint ..... only that had been Henry the builder, who with years of  wisdom had  placed the new one on the other side, leaving the old one painted out ..... to avoid confusion. Only the man at the testing station had got confused, and with  the time being ten minutes to closing time on a saturday morning had refused to issue the sticker.

So the  New Man, the hired man  and I  rolled home in an easy silence, plugged into some  country music to while away the hours.

 And I got to thinking about honey and money and levies and the such.

The bee industry has had organisations for years that have poked stick at those who try to rule our lifestyles.  Spray companies that market Bee friendly stuff. Markets who tell us our honey is poisonous, foreign pest incursions that threaten to wipe us out , and homegrown disease we have lived with for a hundred and more years and learnt to co exist with.

The other day a good mate came up and we were chatting.  He posed the question that for all the levies we have payed out over almost thirty years of running bees, are we any better off ?

My off the cuff answer was  No.   Many will dispute that, but for a small operation I can't say I've really seen any benefit to either our standard of living, or the health of our bees through paying monies to an industry do good organisation.  Some one please correct me !

So as we hit the brakes on the downhill twists and turns of Porter's pass, and the straights of home came into view, and we could hit the cruise control,  my thoughts were still in disarray about financing APINZ.

And I concluded that I would happily support APINZ , but only if they bit the bullet and rallied the troops and glued the industry together to become a strong and vibrant and profitable industry. And the only way to do that was to turn my worthless  rocking and rolling load into a pot of gold. Money in the pocket is what enthuses most people to work.

 

We don't need to teach beekeepers how to make honey. We don't need vast amounts spent on research ...... private endeavour will sort that. But what we do need is a unified front to the global market as to why our product commands a premium price. And to do that , we need heaps of dough to pay someone like Adam Boot to do it for us, as most of us seem to be too busy waiting in lines at testing stations  to get the windscreen washers checked.

 

 

    

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