Advice please

[ikwezinz 97]

I have a hive that has struggled through the season  next to other hives that are going really well - looks like I’m onto the third queen so far based on the double eggs in some cells but look at the attached photos - something isnt right and I haven’t seen this before .

 

I’m treating with oxalic strips 

 

There is no pupal tongue or roping out so not AFB but I have pupa dying in the cells and the hive is basically just hanging in

 

any comments would be welcomed

 

 

 

Edited January 19, 2019 by ikwezinz
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[yesbut 6,233]

I'd say sacbrood

[ikwezinz 97]

Thanks - I thought so as well - Do you suggest I swap positions with the strong hive next to it and boost numbers that way ? 

 

The flow has dried up here so there isn’t a lot coming in at the moment and the strong hives are uncapping the honey boxes and pulling it down so that probably isn’t helping either 

[yesbut 6,233]

6 minutes ago, ikwezinz said:

Do you suggest I swap positions with the strong hive next to it and boost numbers that way ? 

Wouldn't do any harm, but you'll need to re-queen to fix it.

[Philbee 4,675]

To be Honest, Id burn it.

There are some Hives that just will not do well and seem to struggle along until they just die.

Its as if the Hive ware itself is just plain sick and it is often  these sorts of Hives that seem to get mites when others around it are fine.
 

[M4tt 4,941]

Your queen is a dud. You have lots of drones in worker cells , and a horrid pattern .

[Dane Attwood 26]

Treat with apivar to knock varroa down... maybe don't burn the whole hive but burn the ugly brood frames by taking two out at a time and replacing them with good clean built out frames like ones just come from extraction... replace 2 frames every 3 weeks till all brood frames are new... also shrink the hive down as small as possible but make sure they have plenty of nectar and pollen... buy a good mated queen from a good queen breeder... 

[Sailabee 1,102]

I think you will learn more from adding a frame of the next hives brood - if it's getting short of nurse bees and requeening rather than arbitrarily burning it. That is the advantage of being a hobby beek rather than chasing the big fast dream.

Edited January 19, 2019 by Sailabee

[Philbee 4,675]

The great thing about the slow down in Hive prices is its now much easier to right a Hive off.
Maybe burning is a bit extreme but the point was really more about the hive being a cesspool of no goodness.
A thorough reboot is required 

[jamesc 4,928]

looks a lot like PMS ......  O/A dribble or treat ?

[Bees 58]

If you’re going to swap positions of hives to help build up the bee population in this hive then I would suggest shaking all the bees off the cruddy old frames and getting rid of those frames totally - even if they are full of brood that hasn’t hatched - it just gives the remaining colony a much healthier hive with the old wax gone.    If you have  a new laying queen to add then you should be fine.  

[CraBee 1,748]

I'm looking at this more as a hobbyist than a commercial.

 

Queen or Varroa?  It can be tricky but it looks more like varroa to me.  I think the drone brood is in drone cells.  Some pupae are chewed down by the bees in the normal way that happens when there is PMS.   I know you are treating but nasty viruses are still probably lurking.  The Queens could have been superceded in response to a varroa problem. 

 

Maybe start with a sugar shake and see where it is at, then cull out a couple of bad frames and replace with fresh brood from another hive.  I'd also be tempted to feed them a little bit of syrup regularly.

[Philbee 4,675]

Hey Graeme

If you want to get rid of it Ill replace it with a nice new one for free if you pick up from a block 20km up the road from the junction.

I probably owe you a favor

[M4tt 4,941]

There are some of your drone brood in worker cells. That said, it's hard to tell with the cell size all over the place . Really, all the drone brood should be out by itself. 

 

Even if your queen was good she would struggle with that frame. With each wave of brood, cocoon shells build up inside the cells making the cells for the next round of brood smaller. It's imperative that manky old frames like this are cycled out of the brood nest. 

 

Your on your third queen from supersedure from the same line? Bad queens seldom supercede into anything good 

Edited January 19, 2019 by M4tt

[ikwezinz 97]

41 minutes ago, Philbee said:

Hey Graeme

If you want to get rid of it Ill replace it with a nice new one for free if you pick up from a block 20km up the road from the junction.

I probably owe you a favor
 

Hi Phil, thanks - no favor owed at all - really enjoyed our chat -  I have some splits, so I will dump the queen and frames and combine the rest with a decent queen

[john berry 5,636]

I see the odd hive like this and I'm not sure if it's due to miss mating or really bad genetics. I had one this year that I just couldn't get right and in the end I banged all the bees out on the ground and use the box on another hive for a second brood box. The healthy hive cleaned out the brood and one month on you wouldn't know the had ever been anything wrong with the box..

[cBank 801]

I can’t see it if it’s mentioned, but what is the varroa count?

 

Early in the season I had a bad laying pattern, sacbrood and dwv and sugar shakes were getting 11 and 12 per cup of bees. It took the full course of apivar for it to go down to zero (shaken twice, the. Shaken twice a week later). The sacbrrod cleared up with the treatment and new, clean comb.

 

However the key step I took was listening to the more experienced beekeepers here for once.

Edited January 20, 2019 by cBank

[Dennis Crowley 1,351]

On 19/01/2019 at 8:58 PM, john berry said:

I see the odd hive like this and I'm not sure if it's due to miss mating or really bad genetics. I had one this year that I just couldn't get right and in the end I banged all the bees out on the ground and use the box on another hive for a second brood box. The healthy hive cleaned out the brood and one month on you wouldn't know the had ever been anything wrong with the box..

 

On 19/01/2019 at 4:56 PM, Philbee said:

To be Honest, Id burn it.

There are some Hives that just will not do well and seem to struggle along until they just die.

Its as if the Hive ware itself is just plain sick and it is often  these sorts of Hives that seem to get mites when others around it are fine.
 

Yep, its like killing your good chicken to make chicken soup for your sick chicken, kill the sick chicken- problem gone and spend energy on the healthy ones.