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Honey Price Collapse

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16 hours ago, jamesc said:

What we have to come to terms with is that within the   Bee industry there are two industries. There is the Manuka honey industry, and then there are the others. They are two distinct business's with vastly different returns per hive  and need to be recognised as such.

Non manuka honey producers need to accept the fact they have enjoyed good returns  over the last few years courtesy of their manuka brothers. The game has changed and if non manuka honeys can't compete on a world market then we need to have a hard think as to why we are doing it .

New Zealand is probably one of the most expensive countries to do business in. Most of our inputs are imported with an inflated price tag  ... We have an amazing array of restraints put in place to keep us safe and when we have produced a product we have to put it on a boat and ship it most of the way around the world to a consumer.

We have one of the highest standards of living in the world and have limited access to slaves who will work for next to nothing ....... so ...... we need the likes of Mr Boot to turn our Bee poo into Snake oil , because then, like Mr Philbee , he too will become the saviour of a Non manuka industry..

 

You are so right. I have seen and walked away from huge honey contracts recently for clover and dew. They have ended up going to Romania and Canada respectively. Honey dew was $4.50 NZ equivalent delivered to Germany. Clover was $5 delivered. 

We can take our honey varieties and reinvent and add value and drive demand. We can create a want with the consumer and replace other non honey products. We are working on many ideas for new products but it takes time and money. 

You are correct though. If we cannot compete internationally with non Manuka honey we should reinvent and not try and be commodity traders. We should retain the value added. Set the NZ honey brand apart and above. 

Beekeepers and packer brand owners need to work towards this together. We also need to learn from the past. When we hit a golden vein do not abuse it with greed and get rich quick but work towards long term industry growth and sustainability. Reinvest in the next rich vein.

I am sure many beekeepers have some amazing ideas for honey. I for one would love to work with any of them to develop some of these ideas. 

 

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Cherries fresh at the orchard gate $15.50 per kg.

Cherries at a veggie shop 1 hour away from orchard 60.00 a kg.

Cherries at new world 1 hour away from orchard 90.00 a kg.

 

My wife enjoys cherries!

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9 minutes ago, Adam Boot said:

You are so right. I have seen and walked away from huge honey contracts recently for clover and dew. They have ended up going to Romania and Canada respectively. Honey dew was $4.50 NZ equivalent delivered to Germany. Clover was $5 delivered. 

We can take our honey varieties and reinvent and add value and drive demand. We can create a want with the consumer and replace other non honey products. We are working on many ideas for new products but it takes time and money. 

You are correct though. If we cannot compete internationally with non Manuka honey we should reinvent and not try and be commodity traders. We should retain the value added. Set the NZ honey brand apart and above. 

Beekeepers and packer brand owners need to work towards this together. We also need to learn from the past. When we hit a golden vein do not abuse it with greed and get rich quick but work towards long term industry growth and sustainability. Reinvest in the next rich vein.

I am sure many beekeepers have some amazing ideas for honey. I for one would love to work with any of them to develop some of these ideas. 

 

Honey on toast?

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22 minutes ago, jamesc said:

Honey on toast?

Ok that's a start

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Honey chutneys are far better than sugar chutneys

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I gave a few frames of honey away and they kindly returned me a honey and ginger drink.  It was delicious.  It would work as a product as it has very little honey in it and lots of water.  Remember we have world class water here. 

 

 

Also saw a post with honey and turmeric mixed together as a super antioxidant toxic.  Whack them togther (maybe other things) amd sell them in a capsule for daily consumption. 

 

 

Edited by flash4cash

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20 hours ago, Dennis Crowley said:

Yep ... we're all out to make a dollar or two ..... and if there is no dollar in it 'aint worth doing. The catch is for the packing people to realise that they need us peasant people  to make  the product, just as we need packers to market it for us. It's a symbiotic relationship and we need to find a common ground where we can all survive, because at the moment  at  the coal face  it's all about survival.

Jamesc the reason that bought a tear to my eye is that you are right It's a symbiotic relationship and we need to find a common ground where we can all survive, because at the moment  at  the coal face  it's all about survival.I have been banging on about this for years, we are in this together.

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On 22/12/2018 at 1:29 PM, Alastair said:

Fair bit of activity around manuka on the Australian front. I have heard manuka prices are dropping internationally, is it the Aussie affect?

I stumbled across a you tube video a couple of days ago that was all about Australian Manuka being superior to New Zealand Manuka

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4 hours ago, Adam Boot said:

You are so right. I have seen and walked away from huge honey contracts recently for clover and dew. They have ended up going to Romania and Canada respectively. Honey dew was $4.50 NZ equivalent delivered to Germany. Clover was $5 delivered. 

We can take our honey varieties and reinvent and add value and drive demand. We can create a want with the consumer and replace other non honey products. We are working on many ideas for new products but it takes time and money. 

You are correct though. If we cannot compete internationally with non Manuka honey we should reinvent and not try and be commodity traders. We should retain the value added. Set the NZ honey brand apart and above. 

Beekeepers and packer brand owners need to work towards this together. We also need to learn from the past. When we hit a golden vein do not abuse it with greed and get rich quick but work towards long term industry growth and sustainability. Reinvest in the next rich vein.

I am sure many beekeepers have some amazing ideas for honey. I for one would love to work with any of them to develop some of these ideas. 

 

The obvious way to start is by lowering costs, thats the same as increasing profits.

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2 hours ago, flash4cash said:

it has very little honey in it and lots of water

I really like this guy LOL

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1 hour ago, Dennis Crowley said:

Jamesc the reason that bought a tear to my eye is that you are right It's a symbiotic relationship and we need to find a common ground where we can all survive, because at the moment  at  the coal face  it's all about survival.I have been banging on about this for years, we are in this together.

A good example of this is an Extractor  who has put his extraction price up to $18 a box
Lets say that is around $1 a kg maybe a bit less

Worse case senerio thats 25% of the gross value of the Honey  and 12.5% if there is some sort of miracle.

 

For 1000 boxes thats $18000 which will pa leverage an small facility 

This provides for an outstanding business plan for a co op extraction plant

Edited by Philbee

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3 hours ago, Philbee said:

The obvious way to start is by lowering costs, thats the same as increasing profits.

The only problem I have with that Phil is you can only lower costs so far. Then you eventually run out of room.

 

I’m more a fan of Adams idea - find a way to make the end product more valuable (while controlling costs of course)

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1 minute ago, Pinnacle said:

The only problem I have with that Phil is you can only lower costs so far. Then you eventually run out of room.

 

I’m more a fan of Adams idea - find a way to make the end product more valuable (while controlling costs of course)

My comment was aimed at Adams earlier comments about the cost of Marketing etc.
In my view one needs to be careful about telling peasants that the king makes good use of the high taxes they pay.

Adam is a good guy I believe however he does not make the rules.

 

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Adam bosses are going to want to keep the profits...That why they employ him. 

 

If the beekeeper wants to keep the profits they will have to hire Adam themselves...or someone equally good-looking. 

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9 hours ago, Adam O'Sullivan said:

Cherries fresh at the orchard gate $15.50 per kg.

Cherries at a veggie shop 1 hour away from orchard 60.00 a kg.

Cherries at new world 1 hour away from orchard 90.00 a kg.

 

My wife enjoys cherries!

$90 per kg?? I live about as far away from cherry trees orchards as you can get in nz.  only $37 per kg here. 

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On 22/12/2018 at 8:01 PM, Alastair said:

Funny thing about Dew...It is full of anti oxidants, and in my view a primo product. Just, never been promoted, and the buying public don't understand it.

 

 

 

Hmmm, I take issue with the phrase and/or thinking that Honeydew has "never been promoted". 

Comvita created a monofloral SKU and featured the naturally occurring oligosaccharides (Oligo's were a popular thing in Asia at the time), gave it a good chance but it never took off and is sadly no longer with us...

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17 minutes ago, Rob's BP said:

oligosaccharides

Its hardly a catchy word

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16 minutes ago, Philbee said:

Its hardly a catchy word

Which is why it's often called "Oligo", and one brand was calling it "mini Oligo". 

 

Maybe try creating a product ad like this Mini Oligo Bifidus ad

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9 hours ago, Rob's BP said:

"Oligo",

Hardly a catchy word.

The word Manuka has balance, substance and is easily pronounced

That other word is a nothing word 

Edited by Philbee

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21 hours ago, Rob's BP said:

 

Hmmm, I take issue with the phrase and/or thinking that Honeydew has "never been promoted". 

Comvita created a monofloral SKU and featured the naturally occurring oligosaccharides (Oligo's were a popular thing in Asia at the time), gave it a good chance but it never took off and is sadly no longer with us...

Perhaps time to try again.....?

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On 23/12/2018 at 5:50 PM, Adam Boot said:

I said our own honey brand as opposed to other peoples brands. I also said that as soon as legislation provided a base line we were the first to voluntarily exceed it for both local and international markets. 

 

How do you know that?

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14 hours ago, jamesc said:

Get out there and crank the organ coz us monkeys are waiting to dance.

 

Hey all, I'm a simple hobby beek. And I'm sure in the last 21 pages the comparisons have been made before.

 

@jamesc is right, almost.... 

 

Watch Country Calendar, listen to the rural news on National or read North & South. Time and time again the secret to success is where the Organ Grinder and the Monkey both have skin in the game. The problem here is that the organ grinders will move to "the next big thing" because their skills are transferable (ie. They will sell sand to the arabs or their mother to a local sweatshop if they see $$$). But the monkey's skills are stuck with the hives. Monkeys, you can't wait for the organ to sound. Your grinders may be playing a different machine.

 

Honey is now another example of vulnerable monoculture. Manuka has completely warped the market and big bee business. The value of other honeys needs to be re-estabilished to balance the industry and make the economics more stable, and the agriculture more sustainable (both in terms of bee health, but also man-hours). And maybe to make "normal" honey more affordable is the key, is the end product currently being over valued and pricing itself out of the market? I'm aware of several "normal kiwi families", with solid incomes, who choose not to buy honey because its too expensive in the volumes they would consume.

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14 hours ago, Bighands said:

How do you know that?

If any one did it before then they sure as hell did not tell anyone so what was the point. The important point is to have an opportunity to tell the global market that we (NZ Manuka Inc) have a standard that can be trusted and relied upon. That Manuka honey has to be harvested, tested, certified and packed in NZ to be trusted as authentic. 

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I think there are a few words missing after "to be trust as authentic" and i would be interested if honest and/or cynical  people would like to suggest what they may be.

 

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