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Honey Price Collapse

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1 hour ago, frazzledfozzle said:

 

Im sorry but the company you work for was doing exactly the same as everyone else before the standard so I think it’s a bit disingenuous to make out they are pearly white or any more saintly than the company down the road. 

As a point of fact. The company I work for has never had their own brand before PURITI. As soon as any meaningful standard supported legislatively was introduced PURITI could become a reality. There has to be a base line standard (even if only for export) before you have the opportunity to raise the bar. 

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16 minutes ago, Adam Boot said:

As a point of fact. The company I work for has never had their own brand before PURITI. As soon as any meaningful standard supported legislatively was introduced PURITI could become a reality. There has to be a base line standard (even if only for export) before you have the opportunity to raise the bar. 

 

They may not have had their own label but they were blending and selling both offshore and in NZ.

Of course there has to be a standard for a base line and I’m sure all other packers are now adhering to that standard but to say that your company wasn’t blending prior to that standard the same as everyone else is a bit hard to believe . 

Edited by frazzledfozzle
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13 minutes ago, john berry said:

The whole price of honey think is becoming a bit of a moot point round here.
Firstly we have had endless thunderstorms.
Secondly it looks like a really poor flowering on the manuka.
Last but not least there are just so many hives no one would get anything anyway in most places.
Yesterday I went past an area I used to have hives. I ran hives there for over 30 years, I know exactly how many hives the country will handle. Apiary after apiary dumped on top of existing hives and every new apiary having at least twice as many hives as the area can stand even without the existing hives. And then the piece de resistance. Right beside some of my hives that I sold to another beekeeper the neighbouring landowner has cut a new track and there maybe 150 m away is a massive site. This has upset the existing beekeeper, the existing landowner, two other neighbouring landowners and another existing beekeeper. All of whom will suffer a drop in income because a farmer with no manuka on his property in collusion with a complete scrot of a beekeeper who doesn't understand what overstocking does.
The one bright side to the story is given the three factors above the expected crop this year in that area is zero which will hopefully teach them a very expensive lesson although from experience when it comes time for the landowner to be paid their is always some excuse other than, I'm sorry I suffer from greed, incompetence and the ethics of the starving rat.
And I still get people ringing me up wanting free advice on how to compete against me.
What I'd really like to know is why so many corporate's have suddenly decided that Hawke's Bay is the place to dump their hives, we have some manuka and it has some activity but I've never seen high results. I guess they have moved down here because they have failed everywhere else they have been. It's time they looked at what they are doing and why they are failing and it's not the weather or the area.
 

John, you would not like the radio interview then on last sat rural program about the trail block by the lake (forgotten the name)down your way. Great expectations of big things to come with honey growing to 20+, a boom for farmers and beekeepers to come.

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14 minutes ago, john berry said:

The whole price of honey think is becoming a bit of a moot point round here.
Firstly we have had endless thunderstorms.
Secondly it looks like a really poor flowering on the manuka.
Last but not least there are just so many hives no one would get anything anyway in most places.
Yesterday I went past an area I used to have hives. I ran hives there for over 30 years, I know exactly how many hives the country will handle. Apiary after apiary dumped on top of existing hives and every new apiary having at least twice as many hives as the area can stand even without the existing hives. And then the piece de resistance. Right beside some of my hives that I sold to another beekeeper the neighbouring landowner has cut a new track and there maybe 150 m away is a massive site. This has upset the existing beekeeper, the existing landowner, two other neighbouring landowners and another existing beekeeper. All of whom will suffer a drop in income because a farmer with no manuka on his property in collusion with a complete scrot of a beekeeper who doesn't understand what overstocking does.
The one bright side to the story is given the three factors above the expected crop this year in that area is zero which will hopefully teach them a very expensive lesson although from experience when it comes time for the landowner to be paid their is always some excuse other than, I'm sorry I suffer from greed, incompetence and the ethics of the starving rat.
And I still get people ringing me up wanting free advice on how to compete against me.
What I'd really like to know is why so many corporate's have suddenly decided that Hawke's Bay is the place to dump their hives, we have some manuka and it has some activity but I've never seen high results. I guess they have moved down here because they have failed everywhere else they have been. It's time they looked at what they are doing and why they are failing and it's not the weather or the area.
 

most ratty commercials from up in Northland have gone to Taupo, Taranaki etc to pillage a second or third Manuka flow and the hives are coming off flows so will have a greater chance of getting honey than local beeks

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From my day spent trolling through the shops at the mount today and when we were over seas last year, the only thing I learnt about selling product is that the least amount of stuff in the shops corresponds to the price they are asking.

So Im going to start a shop paint it all white and just have 1 pot of 250g honey on a stand in the middle of the store with a abstract painting from the pre-school on the wall with a hipster as the salesperson, and offer patrons a glass of virgin water from the mountain tops.

What price should I put on the jar

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15 minutes ago, Dennis Crowley said:

John, you would not like the radio interview then on last sat rural program about the trail block by the lake (forgotten the name)down your way. Great expectations of big things to come with honey growing to 20+, a boom for farmers and beekeepers to come.

Is this the block at Lake Tutira?

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3 hours ago, frazzledfozzle said:

 

Im sorry but the company you work for was doing exactly the same as everyone else before the standard so I think it’s a bit disingenuous to make out they are pearly white or any more saintly than the company down the road. 

Yep ... we're all out to make a dollar or two ..... and if there is no dollar in it 'aint worth doing. The catch is for the packing people to realise that they need us peasant people  to make  the product, just as we need packers to market it for us. It's a symbiotic relationship and we need to find a common ground where we can all survive, because at the moment  at  the coal face  it's all about survival.

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22 minutes ago, dansar said:

Is this the block at Lake Tutira?

Yes

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1 minute ago, jamesc said:

Yep ... we're all out to make a dollar or two ..... and if there is no dollar in it 'aint worth doing. The catch is for the packing people to realise that they need us peasant people  to make  the product, just as we need packers to market it for us. It's a symbiotic relationship and we need to find a common ground where we can all survive, because at the moment  at  the coal face  it's all about survival.

James you almost brought a tear to my eye it’s that, that is the picture of this industry

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27 minutes ago, Dennis Crowley said:

From my day spent trolling through the shops at the mount today and when we were over seas last year, the only thing I learnt about selling product is that the least amount of stuff in the shops corresponds to the price they are asking.

So Im going to start a shop paint it all white and just have 1 pot of 250g honey on a stand in the middle of the store with a abstract painting from the pre-school on the wall with a hipster as the salesperson, and offer patrons a glass of virgin water from the mountain tops.

What price should I put on the jar

What price should i put on our virgin water after yesterdays 75ml blew out the water intake....?

It should be full of heaps of minerals.

26AE6F15-7829-449F-969A-8C5B5300D186.jpeg

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2 hours ago, Adam Boot said:

As a point of fact. The company I work for has never had their own brand before PURITI. As soon as any meaningful standard supported legislatively was introduced PURITI could become a reality. There has to be a base line standard (even if only for export) before you have the opportunity to raise the bar. 

Oh ..... eldest boy went to visit your company the year before last and came home with a goody bag of packed product ..... clover honey  and   flax oil cpasules to name a few.

Edited by jamesc

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13 minutes ago, Dennis Crowley said:

James you almost brought a tear to my eye it’s that, that is the picture of this industry

It's certainly the case in this neck of the woods ..... if the price don't go up I'm out  . There's better things to do in life than slave away for 70 hours a week for peanuts.

Edited by jamesc
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6 minutes ago, jamesc said:

It's certainly the case in this neck of the woods ..... if the price don't go up I'm out  . There's better things to do in life than slave away for 70 hours a week for peanuts.

What do you do with the other 800 acres ?

 

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1 hour ago, frazzledfozzle said:

I think you need to stop making out that you and your company are pure as the driven snow and stop making out that only your brand of honey is over spec in both the international and national market place.

You don’t know what other company’s test for, you don’t know how far above spec other company’s honey is when it goes in the jar.

Your marketing campaign is all about making the public think that other companies selling Manuka are not doing it to as high a standard as you. 

If you can’t sell your honey on its own merits without casting aspersions on others then what does that tell everyone ?

From your very first post on this forum you haven’t stopped putting others down and you wonder why you get a hard time from some here.

I was not aware that I had put anyone down. I believed this was a forum for discussion. I have never complained if given a hard time myself. 

 

Your statement:

'I think you need to stop making out that you and your company are pure as the driven snow and stop making out that only your brand of honey is over spec in both the international and national market place' 

I have never made this claim but don't kid yourself that I do not quantify and qualify competitive products in all markets. I have also never said that other brands could not do the same. In fact it should be encouraged. Where PURITI differs is commitment and the fact that by stating the MPI definition at higher levels than required on the jar it forces us to be true to label. I am yet to see this elsewhere? It is also a commitment to exceed the standard in future if the threshold rises (and we hope it does). 

Further more. Whatever has or not happened in this industry in the past there is a point where it has to start maturing, recognising international market and consumer concerns and clean up for the sake of the industry and its future. The championing of strengthened and strengthening standards can only enhance the credibility of the Manuka opportunity we have. 

 

Our marketing is also designed to inform the consumer honestly about Manuka the testing the standards and requirements here and abroad. It is also designed to highlight the legal labelling variances here and overseas. When I walk through the supermarket and I see pollen count, MGO and UMF on three different brands of Manuka side by side it strikes me that the honesty education process is long over due. Also on the same shelf was Manuka Blend labelled Premium Manuka and the jar next to it 83MGO. For those in the industry that understand these variables this may not be a problem to decipher. Please don't pretend that this is fair on the average consumer though. 

 

It may be wise for you to take off the blinkers for a moment and realise that the market is global and not your back yard. I can assure you that we are alone voice when spending vast amounts of advertising money on defending and promoting NZ Manuka, the MPI standard the UMF Quality Mark and the importance of Anti Counterfeit measures and provenance. 

This is in the face of multiple brands and retailers (supported by NZ producers) trying to undermine all of this. Much of we do with no mention of our own brand but for the betterment on NZ Manuka inc. 

 

Thankfully your opinion and criticism is more than offset by the wonderful support we have received throughout the country by amazing passionate vissionary beekeepers with similar views and philosophies to ours and at the same time from the consumer and retailer who welcomed an honest approach clear labelling and removal of the smoke and mirrors.

 

 

 

 

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16 minutes ago, jamesc said:

What price should i put on our virgin water after yesterdays 75ml blew out the water intake....?

It should be full of heaps of minerals.

26AE6F15-7829-449F-969A-8C5B5300D186.jpeg

I saw a line of milk bottles that colour on a window-ledge of a certain bedroom in a flat once; it didn't come out of the tap according to the flatties ; )

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11 minutes ago, jamesc said:

Oh ..... eldest boy went to visit your company the year before last and came home with a goody bag of packed product ..... clover honey  and   flax oil cpasules to name a few.

I said our own honey brand as opposed to other peoples brands. I also said that as soon as legislation provided a base line we were the first to voluntarily exceed it for both local and international markets. 

 

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44 minutes ago, jamesc said:

Yep ... we're all out to make a dollar or two ..... and if there is no dollar in it 'aint worth doing. The catch is for the packing people to realise that they need us peasant people  to make  the product, just as we need packers to market it for us. It's a symbiotic relationship and we need to find a common ground where we can all survive, because at the moment  at  the coal face  it's all about survival.

Never happen there will always be friction unless the supply chain is owned by one party.  Beekeepers were winning the game now they are losing the game. On balance who has the upper hand over time....according to Warren Buffett the owners of the brands. Which is why he only invests in brands like Coca-Cola and not in a sugar farm..and why he is the 3rd richest person on the planet.   

 

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@Adam Boot I only have to go to your brands Facebook page and website as well as this forum to see that part of your marketing strategy is to diss other Manuka honeys.

 

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38 minutes ago, yesbut said:

What do you do with the other 800 acres ?

 

More deer netting of course .....

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2 hours ago, frazzledfozzle said:

 

They may not have had their own label but they were blending and selling both offshore and in NZ.

Of course there has to be a standard for a base line and I’m sure all other packers are now adhering to that standard but to say that your company wasn’t blending prior to that standard the same as everyone else is a bit hard to believe . 

I never said that either. If you want to keep making things up then fine, carry on. 

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40 minutes ago, Adam Boot said:

I said our own honey brand as opposed to other peoples brands. I also said that as soon as legislation provided a base line we were the first to voluntarily exceed it for both local and international markets. 

 

 

How do you know you were the first ?

how do you know what others are doing both internationally and domestically?

 

 

Edited by frazzledfozzle

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@jamesc what do you mean? You have seen the light and now a proud brand owner. Honey Hunters is an awesome name now you just need a clever marketing campaign to create an emotional connection (i would suggest funny) and you will have a brand. 

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3 hours ago, frazzledfozzle said:

 

They may not have had their own label but they were blending and selling both offshore and in NZ.

Of course there has to be a standard for a base line and I’m sure all other packers are now adhering to that standard but to say that your company wasn’t blending prior to that standard the same as everyone else is a bit hard to believe . 

As you know there is one standard for export that does not apply to NZ how many voluntarily produce all their product to the higher export standard regardless of destination? Some yes but not all and you don't know which does or does not. We atleast put it on the label and it is all to a level that supersedes the required export standard. 

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