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Can't get blood from a stone, in some cases even what has been promised simply won't happen.   Only a couple of days ago I was at a site with almost no manuka. I had always given the owner a

Aaah ... the seventies .... I vaguely remember the seventies ...... had to walk six miles barefoot to catch the school bus ..... and you think that was tough ?

Oh, for anyone curious, here is a video of packages being made in Australia, the method is virtually identical to how it was done here back when I was doing it. The bit not shown is how they get the b

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11 minutes ago, Kiwi Bee said:

 

Crystallization happens because of the yeast in the honey. Worm the honey to 80-58C for 10-15 min and you kill all the yeast. Job done.

nope not even close. yeast has absolutely nothing to do with it.

heating the honey up to that temp will stop it crystallizing (or at least slow the rate). its typically done in a flash heating process where its heated up very quickly and cooled back down very quickly. the cooling is important as heating the honey that hot for to long can damage it.

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Last time we went here I incurred the wrath of @Alistair ?

 

Honey is a super saturated solution. It crystallises as the soluble sugars separate from the the water which it does more readily at lower temperatures. You have no doubt observed the same with 2:1 sugar syrup which is also a super saturated solution, at lower temperatures large sugar crystals will form and eventually what you are left with is sugar crystals in more or less water.

 

The above is the only reason why solutions crystalise.

 

BUT, that process will be hastened when there are seed particles in a super saturated solution. These could be any very fine particle, such as pollen.  That is why you use an already creamed honey (very fine crystals) as a starter when you want to cream a whole bucket of it.

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2 hours ago, flash4cash said:

That is a long time.  Given the finincal incentive i would have thought they will crack it before then. 

 

I got in trouble last time i mention this area so i will not bring it up.  However i am collaborating with the cheese maker and a chef for a dessert goat cheese for the 2019 cheese awards.  We are infusing honey into the centre of the chève cheese.  Because i want to use different honeys for around nz and want it to say liquid i need to stop it from crystallizing. To do this we need to filter the honey to remove the pollen. 

 

Filteration of honey in nz is not a common practise.  If they thought about it abit more it will become alot more common. 

My honey is still liquid after a year .

There is so much rata in it I am surprised .

Do you use echium honey , apparently that does not crystalise .

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15 minutes ago, Alastair said:

The honey you sent me is still crystal clear Kaihoka! Just wish my own would last that long.

Some other source in there has power to override ratas ability to crystallize really quickly .

It must be the 16% unknown .

 There is brassica in there . Do you know if it crystallizes slowly .

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No I don't know anything about that. But what kind of brassica? Most of them high in pollen, or I thought they were. But reading that link by DeeGeeBee, maybe there's a shift in the sugar type balance, enough to prevent even a supersaturated solution crystallising.

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On 29/11/2018 at 11:54 AM, Philbee said:

He told me he thought it was going to Chinese who purchased it as a status symbol in front of their friends and associates.
If this is the case then the Manuka industry is about to collapse IMO.

Status symbols are always in vogue.  I would not be concerned with that.  Only if Manuka lost it status. Which i doubt as it has now become rarer. 

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20 minutes ago, john berry said:

There is enough work keeping bees without doing all the extras like package bees, pollination, propolis, queens, pollen and nukes. You can make extra income but you also incur extra costs and a great deal of extra time. I was going to make a point here when I suddenly realised that I now do the farmers market and comb honey both of which incur extra costs and time so I guess my point will have to be that if you enjoy something then do it.

Do you think creaming honey changes the flavour ,

The comb clover you sent me was much nicer than any clover honey I brought in a shop , which was always creamed .

Also is honey slower to crystallize when left in the comb .

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It might be in my imagination but I think that the same honey taste different depending on a lot of factors including temperature and granulation. Clover to me is best in the comb and my second favourite would be hard granulated and cold but then I prefer my chocolate frozen so there's no accounting for taste. Granulation in comb honey is one of the biggest problems and it's really hard to know how any particular honey will react. Clover is generally a pretty slow granulating honey. With cut comb granulation normally occurs first in the honey that has dribbled from the cut. There is nothing wrong with granulated comb honey as far as eating goes but it is not as nice.

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8 hours ago, Philbee said:

What if rich Chinese become rarer also

The top 10% have 90% of the discretionary income spend.  If the economy tanks it is the bottom 90% that feel it first and the hardest. 

 

The 10% at the top will want to make a point that is it not affecting them so will keep buying to save face. 

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9 hours ago, Philbee said:

What if rich Chinese become rarer also

To further the point lets look at the infant formula game. DGC which we supply sell the worlds most expensive infant formula. The Chinese are big buyers.  We have companies in NZ that see what we do and want a piece of the action. So they go to the market and undercut us on price.  They consumers do not buy it and they go broke why?...

 

Because people want the best and the 'best' cost the most. No one want to think they are 2nd rate so they pay up. Research shows that the more people spend on something the better they think it is/taste.  The mind plays tricks.  It has a higher feel good factor. 

 

In our case who wants to think their one and only newborn child will start life 2nd..? No way their child is a winner, Number 1, and only the best for their baby..the more we charge the more they buy it. 

 

As a side note out biggest market is Russia.  Their economy tanks it all the time including their currency , it does not affect sales one bit.  The rich just keep trucking. 

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17 minutes ago, flash4cash said:

To further the point lets look at the infant formula game. DGC which we supply sell the worlds most expensive infant formula. The Chinese are big buyers.  We have companies in NZ that see what we do and want a piece of the action. So they go to the market and undercut us on price.  They consumers do not buy it and they go broke why?...

 

Because people want the best and the 'best' cost the most. No one want to think they are 2nd rate so they pay up. Research shows that the more people spend on something the better they think it is/taste.  The mind plays tricks.  It has a higher feel good factor. 

 

In our case who wants to think their one and only newborn child will start life 2nd..? No way their child is a winner, Number 1, and only the best for their baby..the more we charge the more they buy it. 

 

As a side note out biggest market is Russia.  Their economy tanks it all the time including their currency , it does not affect sales one bit.  The rich just keep trucking. 

Some good points

However Russia is established and has learned to exist in a world of sanctions therefore they have stability.

The old cold war is long gone. (maybe a new one starting)

China is made up of very new Rich and they are about to feel the full power of the US in ways the world has never seen
Seriously anyone who plans for business as usual is in for one heck of a shock.
North Korea has done Trump the good service of demonstrating that these types are not good for their word so when trump meets Xi at the G20 it will be a much different deal making model than what we have seen to date.
We are looking at serious outcomes here and America is focused soley on its own interests first, which in the longer term are aimed at retaining some sort of Global balance but in the short term, man o man it could get really tough here. 

 
 

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8 minutes ago, Philbee said:

North Korea has done Trump the good service of demonstrating that these types are not good for their word so when trump meets Xi at the G20 it will be a much different deal making model than what we have seen to date.

I think trump will hold the line on north korea.  He has already claimed victory so backtrack will be embarrassing. It is one of his key foreign policy wins.  As long as there is no new nuke and ICBM testing he will be happy with that. 

 

Trump is USA first, however most large US companies draw over half their earning abroad so it is a balancing act. 

 

There will no doubt be turbance in the future however predicting when and what is difficult.  On balance growth is a more likey outcome than contraction so optimisms is a better mindset than negativity/or delayed while trying to acheive perfect timing. 

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It's a bit early in the day for lateral thinking. But .....

 

I see in the farming paper that the Gvt has given Westland milk a very generous sum to fund research and development for value added milk products.

How long before the honey industry gets cohesive and lobby's Gvt for some R&D funds.    Maybe to discover how to make honey into a planet friendly shopping container.Or  maybe edible packaging that is coated in antibacterial compound ( honey) ....... and tastes yummy ..... just throw the packaging in the crock pot, stir , and reduce the need for sugar .....

 

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40 minutes ago, jamesc said:

It's a bit early in the day for lateral thinking. But .....

 

I see in the farming paper that the Gvt has given Westland milk a very generous sum to fund research and development for value added milk products.

How long before the honey industry gets cohesive and lobby's Gvt for some R&D funds.    Maybe to discover how to make honey into a planet friendly shopping container.Or  maybe edible packaging that is coated in antibacterial compound ( honey) ....... and tastes yummy ..... just throw the packaging in the crock pot, stir , and reduce the need for sugar .....

 

I wouldnt want to take on the sugar industry. 

Remember how they pressured the fats and oils industry to take all the blame for human health issues.

God knows what toxic dangerous effects they will find in honey .

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1 hour ago, kaihoka said:

I wouldnt want to take on the sugar industry. 

Remember how they pressured the fats and oils industry to take all the blame for human health issues.

God knows what toxic dangerous effects they will find in honey .

tutin ..... glyphosate ..... perimiphos .....tordon ...... and last but not least ..... cow poo  ?

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