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Diane

AFB checks

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I was doing an AFB check on a hive for someone today, big hive, had obviously swarmed recently as from a hive with 2 full depth boxes of bees there was only 1 frame with 1/4 of sealed brood, the rest was young larve and lots of eggs, so thinking new queen. The owner gave me a history of being away and on return the 2 boxes were over full. My question is, on doing a disease check, only a couple of frames of brood to check due to lack of brood, I was concerned the hive smelt bad but looked fine, the few capped cells there were and open larvee looked healthy, just the fishy smell. So I signed forms as AFB free but added in the actions section that I would check the hive in 2 months. I would have a good amount of brood to check by then. Do others think this is a good plan or other ideas? 

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yes good idea, but more importantly it should be checked every time they take honey off.

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4 minutes ago, tristan said:

yes good idea, but more importantly it should be checked every time they take honey off

6 minutes ago, tristan said:

yes good idea, but more importantly it should be checked every time they take honey off.

I did some teaching on dieaese symptoms

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I’d be inclined to check it again much sooner than two months since you have doubts. I’d time it for three weeks time when you have plenty of emerging brood and hopefully plenty more capped 

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15 hours ago, tristan said:

yes good idea, but more importantly it should be checked every time they take honey off

15 hours ago, tristan said:

yes good idea, but more importantly it should be checked every time they take honey off.

I did some teaching on dieaese symptoms

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I agree with Matt, as better safe than sorry. However, I would also assume that if all cells had hatched that it is very unlikely to have AFB or you would see unhatched, old capped cells that you could test. Or, dead and drying dark pupae, again that you can test, particularly looking for the pupal tongue. 

 

But definitely go back once there is more capped brood

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OK Guys .... Dog Update.

 

It generally pays not to skite as more often than not  one has to eat humble pie further down the track . I think I mentioned a few weeks ago that our operation is in remission from AFB.

I lied.

Yestreday we were boxing up  hives that had come out of the Dew to the flatland clover on a survival mission.  One very strong hive has been under  surveillance since May. Last week we shook all the bees down into the bottom box, disease checked  and confined the queen there. 

When throwing honey supers on I get curious in some hives and check to see what's going on.  I checked the strong hive that still had brood in the top box above the queen excluder ...... and found one cell of AFB.

 The gut reaction is to mutter a curse ..... but on the other hand it's to rejoice that the 'Silly Dog' told me so over  eight months ago , and why was I so dumb not to burn it there and then ?

Which just goes to show how tricky an enemy AFB is.  There is no room for  complacency in the control and eradication.  Remission is remeission ..... not erdication.

Edited by jamesc
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37 minutes ago, jamesc said:

Remission is remeission ..... not erdication.

I find this very hard to beleeve

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12 hours ago, yesbut said:

I find this very hard to beleeve

Meaning .....?

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12 minutes ago, jamesc said:

Meaning .....?

Yes

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We need more dogs, and the faith in them to burn a hive 

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On ‎17‎/‎11‎/‎2018 at 5:04 PM, Diane said:

 I was concerned the hive smelt bad but looked fine, the few capped cells there were and open larvee looked healthy, just the fishy smell. 

 

My own take on this is that some hives just smell bad sometimes. If you take the mat off a hive and immediately get that icky smell it's a heart stopping moment. But it takes a lot of AFB before it is up to a level a human can smell it. If you check the brood and find no symptomatic AFB, then what you are smelling is something else.

 

Dogs, well that's different, but far as human olifactory senses go, my own belief is that a hive with no symptomatic AFB cannot generate enough smell via AFB, for a human to detect it.

 

But what I do, any hive I have doubts about for some reason, I write A? and the date on the lid. This hive will then get a good look at every time I work it, and not have brood or whatever taken to be put in another hive, after 2 years I cross out the A? date.

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2 hours ago, Josh said:

We need more dogs, and the faith in them to burn a hive 

As as the cost of Varroa control  falls so will the value of Hives.

If in doubt, burn it.

If a site is suspect, Burn the lot.


 

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28 minutes ago, Philbee said:

If a site is suspect, Burn the lot.

 

You might change your tune on that if you actually got the disease in a 50 hive apiary Phil. Competent monitoring can achieve the same effect. Trick is to monitor any site where AFB has been, quarantine, and ensure infected hives do not get down to a level where they could be robbed.

 

Just a few days ago I worked alongside an Austrian beekeeper, he told me AFB hardly exists in their country they have a much tougher regime than us. There are government funded AFB inspectors, every hive is inspected annually. Hives cannot be moved unless first checked by the government inspector. They do a visual inspection, and then a sample is taken from each hive and lab tested. Once the all clear is given the hives can be moved.

Once a year beekeepers themselves take a sample from each hive which is sent away to be lab tested. If AFB is discovered the infected hives are burned, but every hive in the apiary has to be shook swarmed. The bees are put in temporary packages. All frames in the apiary are burned, but boxes can be saved if they are scorched. New frames are put in, then the bees can be put back in the hives once the first few bees have died of starvation.

 

Does it all work? A few things about it seem odd to me, ie, the work involved of burning all frames, yet scorch old boxes and keep the bees seems counterproductive. 

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Given that a number of hives with AFB detected in them, will never develop clinical signs . . . what might be the tolerance level for burn or not? We can detect AFB DNA in bees from a clinical hive and we’re starting to understand what that level (of a likely clinical hive) is. 

 

Yet we can detect spores/cells at a level thousands of fold lower. Clinical? No. Will it develop into clinical? The research is ongoing. 

But would people in these current times, burn a hive based on detection of very low level bacteria?

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23 minutes ago, JohnF said:

But would people in these current times, burn a hive based on detection of very low level bacteria?

John in my view the heat has gone out of the Hive Market
When I look at a hive nowadays I dont see 500+ dollars, I just see a hive.

On this basis I would have no qualms about burning a low count suspect Hive and as time goes on possibly this view may spread

Edited by Philbee

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John is saying the science may tell you that this hive will never get AFB.

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2 minutes ago, Alastair said:

John is saying the science may tell you that this hive will never get AFB.

Oh, I read the last paragraph differently than that

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19 hours ago, yesbut said:

Yes

I'm still lost ?

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On 21/12/2018 at 7:26 AM, jamesc said:

Remission is remeission ..... not erdication.

 

5 minutes ago, jamesc said:

I'm still lost ?

Well put your glasses on forget about what you think you wrote and read the above aloud.....

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OH ..... I have one of those smart computers that seems to alter spelling to suit itself. Or it's about to die.

Edited by jamesc

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1 hour ago, jamesc said:

OH ..... I have one of those smart computers that seems to alter spelling to suit itself. Or it's about to die.

 

Hmm I’m not entirely sure it’s the computers fault...computer says nooo

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4 hours ago, Alastair said:

John is saying the science may tell you that this hive will never get AFB.

 

4 hours ago, Philbee said:

Oh, I read the last paragraph differently than that

 

I could have phrased it better - as in, what is AFB ? ? which is a bit flippant but - I s it the detection of Paenibacillus larvae bacteria? Or is it the detection of something ropy in a brood frame?

 

as we get better methods to detect the bacteria (dogs, DNA methods, electronic sensors (?)) then we may need to review our current criteria. 

Mjust interested in people’s thoughts on it

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I should have phrased it better too, should have said the science may tell you that this hive may never get AFB.

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