Jump to content
Bee Good

Laying Worker

Recommended Posts

I dare you  to stop fiddling with them .

  • Haha 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
32 minutes ago, yesbut said:

I dare you  to stop fiddling with them .

It will be a challange.

  • Haha 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Do you move often move the queen cells before they are capped?

I’ve only moved them once they are capped, hadn’t occurred to me to do it earlier. 

Edited by cBank

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, cBank said:

Do you move oItmove the queen cells bef o re they are capped?

I’ve only moved them once they are capped, hadn’t occurred to me to do it earlier. 

No , not normally .

They were swarm cells i Would  have squashed.

I just thought i Would put them in my LW nuc.

I expected them to be ripped down , not capped .

It shouldnt have worked .

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hi Alastair,

Thanks, You just did exactly what you explained  a page back to my hives on the garden bank at Castor Bay on Friday (merged a LW hive to my good hive) during the AFB check.

I notice lots of bees hanging around the entrance (several hundred 'bearding') - even at night time in the rain!  They were soaked and wouldn't go into the hives. 

 

Qu:  Just out of interest; Would these be the laying workers from the upper hives that were out wandering when the hives were merged and have since returned home but are not being allowed inside the hive due to guard bees from the 'good' hive?

 

Cheers,

Andrew

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Oh Hi Homer, good to put a face to the name!

 

The bees will be "bearding" because both hives were well stocked with bees and it's going to be crowded in there, if things get just too warm which especially happens when it's humid, some of them just have to vacate and go outside. 

 

For your hive, it's going to be a bit messy for the 3 week period until you can remove the excluder and re organise the hive, but, it takes time for the bees in the LW hive to get used to the other bees and accept the queen, the process cannot safely be rushed. If some of those bees have to hange outside meantime that's just how it will have to be.

 

Please update in due course I'll be interested to see how this works out, and of course everybody here can offer advice and talk you through the process once it is time to re-split the bees back into 2 hives.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hi Alastair, (and others on this forum),

Thanks for that.  So it has now been 3 weeks since we united my hives and am ready for an inspection I guess.

 

Just to summarize for others on this forum:

I had two hives:

Hive#1 made up of two brood boxes and one honey super.  This was Queenless and had laying workers.

Hive#2 also 2 x broods and 1 x honey super and was fine with a laying Queen. 

We united the hives with hive#2 on the bottom (2xbroods), newspaper + QE and the 2 x broods of LW (hive#1) then another QE with 2 x honey supers on top.  6 boxes high!  (see image below)

 

So it's now been 3 weeks.  I'd like to try a split but haven't looked at buying a new Queen yet.  I remember last year I found it nearly impossible to buy two for re-queening!

In my notes after we did the unite 3 weeks ago I "think" you said that to do the split, I should move the boxes of hive#2 (with the good Queen) to a different location and leave the LW brood boxes where they are.  Is this correct?

 

I'm asking for advice from Alastair and others on some simple steps on how to do this split and initial inspection assuming the following:

- that 2 hives were united due to laying workers 3 weeks ago,

- Can I do this without buying a new queen?   I don't have a new queen or queen cell for the soon-to-be split, (are these difficult to get mid Jan?)

- I want the split about a meter from the original hive as per 3 weeks ago,

- I'm fairly new to BK but keen to try out a split,

- I have the 'Practical BK Book' and watched loads of BK vids on Youtube on doing splits etc. 

 

Thanks in advance for any good advice I get ?

Andrew

 

 

Split.jpg

Edited by HomerJS

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Have you looked through it yet? 

If not, that might be a good idea. Hopefully all the brood has hatched in the middle boxes. Also, is there an escape route for the drones that will have been hatching in the middle boxes? The excluder can get pretty clogged if there are a lot of drones above it.

Edited by cBank

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hi Homer, you can do a split without buying a queen and let the bees in the queenless section make themselves one. But realise that when young queens take their mating flights, accidents can happen. In your area, if you let the bees raise their own queen you have around an 80% chance you will end up with a mated laying queen, the other 20%, something goes wrong during the mating flight. 

 

However if you are willing to take the risk, an easy way to do it would be as follows - take all the top boxes off the hive, then move the 2 very bottom brood boxes and the bottom board to where you want the new hive to go. This will contain the queen. Then put the other bottom board and the other 2 brood boxes where you just moved the hive from. This hive is queenless and you want them to raise a new queen. So you will need to give them some eggs they can use to make the queen, so take 2 or 3 combs of brood from the hive that has the queen, just check that these combs have at least some eggs. Not larvae, actual eggs. These combs can be swapped with three combs in the queenless hive, the best place to put them would be middle of the second brood box. And, the bees should be shaken off them into the hive they came from to ensure you do not accidentally transfer the queen.

 

Both hives should have a queen excluder put on and then apportion the honey supers as you see fit.

 

The queenless hive will use the eggs you gave them to raise a new queen, and she should be mated and laying in around 5 weeks, 6 maximum, from when you made the split.

 

Should add, there are many ways to skin a cat and many ways to make a split. Other people may have other suggestions which may be just as good.

Edited by Alastair
  • Like 1
  • Thanks 1
  • Good Info 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Thanks for the replies.  I've just done the split.  Not that many eggs in the good hive (mainly honey and some pollen) but transferred two frames with some eggs across to the LW hive and put this LW hive in the new location.

 

It was all pretty chaotic with bees everywhere.  I covered the hive with a towell when tending to the other one.  I got three stings through my suit all in same spot!  I guess that's normal with the released alarm pheromones?

 

Time shall tell I guess.  Happy to update all on progress.

Thanks for the advice.

Cheers,

Andrew

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

My LW hive has resisted all atempts at rehabilitation .

The cells I put in were capped but never hatched .

I saw the ends looked like they had been opened and then closed .

I opened one and the queen was dead .

I waited a week and checked the other cell , that queen was pretty mature but dead too.

I put another frame of brood in , about the 6th . I took out any newly laid eggs and drone brood and put in a nearby nuc.

A week later they have not made any Q cells  except from newly laid drone eggs.

The original laying workers must be dead by now .

But the hive is determined to go its own way .

  • Good Info 1
  • Sad 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

@cBank it was all an experiment .

I shall ignore it the hive for a bit now .

 my current experiment with making queens  using HD nucs 

 

 

I did wonder if their queen excluder slot was big enough for queen smell to drift through and it really wasnt , as they had made cells .

I trashed those cells and added a frame of just eggs.

If i get a laying queen i shall swop places with the LW nuc and suck up those bees .

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
8 hours ago, kaihoka said:

@cBank it was all an experiment .

I shall ignore it the hive for a bit now .

 my current experiment with making queens  using HD nucs 

 

 

I did wonder if their queen excluder slot was big enough for queen smell to drift through and it really wasnt , as they had made cells .

I trashed those cells and added a frame of just eggs.

If i get a laying queen i shall swop places with the LW nuc and suck up those bees .

Why not dump the laying worker hive on the ground and let them beg their way back into a Queen right hive, then split it off again in a couple of weeks. If the brood is mostly drone then it’s not much good to a Queen right hive anyway. Freeze those frames and use in new split. 

  • Agree 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, nikki watts said:

Why not dhave mp the laying worker hive on th e ground and let them beg their way back into a Queen right hive, then split it off again in a couple of weeks. If the brood is mostly drone then it’s not much good to a Queen right hive anyway. Freeze those frames and use in new split. 

I had thought of that .

Wont the bees fly back to their original spot .

I will let all the worker brood frames i Have put in there hatch first .

I will freeze The frames 

Edited by kaihoka

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, kaihoka said:

I had thought of that .

Wont the bees fly back to their original spot .

I will let all the worker brood frames i Have put in there hatch first .

I will freeze The frames 

Yes, they will fly back.  Leave nothing at the old site.  Then they have to go to another hive.  Dump the last of the brood or freeze it as you have already sacrificed it from a hive, or put the worker frame back into the donor hive (provided it has no eggs in it)

 

  • Thanks 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now

×