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Markypoo

NZBF Honey bound hive

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A bit of a long winded introduction to set the scene.

One of the carnie hives at school was way slower than the other. Noticeably less bees and less brood. I guess the bees lost patience with her as I found a couple of supercedure cells in the middle of some brood frames in the top box.

I had a look through the bottom box and found a little virgin queen running around. I split the hive leaving the virgin in one and the cells in another.

The cells have hatched and I saw a little black virgin bee running around today but she hasn't started laying. She hatched last monday or tuesday at the latest as I would not have missed seeing them on my weekly inspection.

 

The virgin already there  is now laying and vastly bigger. However she is in the single FD box that stayed on the original site and kept all the workers. 

The frames are packed with nectar and pollen. There are also 3 solid frames of honey. I removed one and delivered it to the catering suite to the delight of the students there, Most who have never seen comb honey. I put an undrawn wooden frame in the middle of the box. There is not a lot of room for laying.

 

My plan was to take a queen  to replace the nasty queen at home, then merge the 2 FD boxes back together using the newspaper method. But since the other one isnt laying yet I don't want to take the laying queen and risk the virgin not coming back or something.

Should I put a honey super on to give them somewhere to store the nectar for the time being? Or any other recommendations.

 

I am pretty chuffed that none of my hives have swarmed (home or school) and I have even managed to capture a large one of italians belonging to someone else.

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i would put a super on and pull some of the honey frames up into it.

don't get too smug about not having lost any swarms.

theres still time  ?

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14 minutes ago, kaihoka said:

i would put a super on and pull some of the honey frames up into it.

don't get too smug about not having lost any swarms.

theres still time  ?

I think it is potentially swarm season unti the longest day 

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You can’t muck around with new queens until their new eggs are capped 

Well you can , I wouldn’t ?

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The virgin already there  is now laying and vastly bigger.

 

I didn't think virgins laid?

 

Even at 72 it seems I have much to learn about the birds and bees

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27 minutes ago, DuncanCook said:

The virgin already there  is now laying and vastly bigger.

 

I didn't think virgins laid?

 

Even at 72 it seems I have much to learn about the birds and bees

It was a test for new beeks to see who would spot the comment first?

well done @DuncanCook

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1 hour ago, M4tt said:

You can’t muck around with new queens until their new eggs are capped 

Well you can , I wouldn’t ?

yeah well i thought that and i have had all these swarms.

i think you have to be pretty sure there is only one queen in the box.

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Do what @kaihoka said but use a QE so it is only a honey box. Shift those two frames up and give her space to lay. But maybe wait a few more days... as @M4tt says. 

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1 hour ago, CHCHPaul said:

Do what @kaihoka said but use a QE so it is only a honey box. Shift those two frames up and give her space to lay. But maybe wait a few more days... as @M4tt says. 

I’ve been told that they can fight through an excluder - maybe use 2? This might not be a thing that others here think happens.

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3 hours ago, DuncanCook said:

The virgin already there  is now laying and vastly bigger.

 

I didn't think virgins laid?

 

Even at 72 it seems I have much to learn about the birds and bees

Yes well spotted. I think the key part of the statement is the virgin is now laying. Therefore she is not a virgin anymore. But I identified her as such to ensure it was clear it was the same bee.

Luckily I am not an English teacher.

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After writing the initial post, as I was sitting supervising an exam, I decided to go out and put a 3/4 box of frames above it. No excluder. I don't care if they lay in it. If it gets moved up, any empty brood cells will eventually be filled with honey. Pretty sure only one queen. I think she is all good. She was busy laying when I found her, and didn;t let my interruptions stop her.

We have a pretty serious flow on at the moment. My 2FD strong carni hive has almost 2/3 drawn out their honey super and it is full of nectar. I have a question about that but since this is the beginners section I will make another topic.

 

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8 minutes ago, Markypoo said:

Yes well spotted. I think the key part of the statement is the virgin is now laying. Therefore she is not a virgin anymore. But I identified her as such to ensure it was clear it was the same bee.

Luckily I am not an English teacher.

But I am a pedant, my apologies @Markypoo I just couldn't resist!

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19 hours ago, Markypoo said:

virgin is now laying.

 

Immaculate conception?

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19 hours ago, Markypoo said:

Pretty sure only one queen.

 

19 hours ago, cBank said:

can fight through an excluder

 

This isn’t why I suggested a QE. If you don’t use one you will end up with a huge stack of brood boxes when you merge this hive back with the parent hive for the honey flow...

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If I find a hive that is superseding I just leave them to it. The only thing I might do if I could be bothered would be to remove all but one cell. The hive is already under stress from having a failing Queen so why would you want to split it. Also if you keep interfering with new Queen's before they have time to have sealed brood you will eventually find out why it is not recommended.

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34 minutes ago, john berry said:

If I find a hive that is superseding I just leave them to it. The only thing I might do if I could be bothered would be to remove all but one cell. The hive is already under stress from having a failing Queen so why would you want to split it. Also if you keep interfering with new Queen's before they have time to have sealed brood you will eventually find out why it is not recommended.

I didn't realise it was superceding until too late. I thought they were swarm cells, as I had seen the old queen running around laying a week ago. I assumed she was just a bit later getting going than the other carnie queen. She was still miles ahead of my italians.

Because I only had 2 hives, I thought I may as well split to increase hive numbers if I wanted, and at very least, make me a queen. I split the boxes and then hunted for the old queen. Didn't find the old one, but found a new (ish) virgin instead. 

 

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Just now, Beefriendly said:

@Markypoo didn’t you order some virgin queens? 

Yeah. In nucs. They are at home. Should be mated and laying soon. My plans changed after an AFB alert. I am keeping home apiary and school apiary isolated from each other as I have a commercial near me who has had a few hiccups with AFB. Didn't get any alerts from apiweb, only saw it when I logged in. The when walking the dogs found one of their sites completely empty.

 

If I can keep the two apiaries physically isolated, with no movement of bees, hiveware or tools between the two I should minimise risks.

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26 minutes ago, Markypoo said:

Should be mated and laying soon

 

On 13/10 I found capped queen cells. I made a few splits. I had peep today and there are eggs in 2 of the 3 splits. The third split i didn’t go into as the weather was changing. Things happening fast at this time of year.

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6 minutes ago, cBank said:

Things happening fast at this time of year.

Sure do, hence the recommendation to check weekly...

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On 24/10/2018 at 7:22 PM, cBank said:

I’ve been told that they can fight through an excluder - maybe use 2? This might not be a thing that others here think happens.

I've trialled double queen hives as FD QE FD QE then supers. They don't appear to fight through a single excluder. 

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I'm glad that I have a long hive.

I had this happen last year. Instead of adding more frames, I moved the honey frames further apart on the understanding that it is easier for them to build out comb rather than make new comb. The result was, lot of double thickness comb that made great Xmas presents.

I did add some more comb in the brood nest, but they took longer to start on these which resulted in some seriously big worker bees.

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11 hours ago, mischief said:

I did add some more comb in the brood nest, but they took longer to start on these which resulted in some seriously big worker bees.

 

When I’ve put comb with big cells into a brood box I’ve just had big slabs of drones. Which result is more common?

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1 hour ago, cBank said:

 

When I’ve put comb with big cells into a brood box I’ve just had big slabs of drones. Which result is more common?

 

Same, I have never seen “seriously big worker bees “ :) 

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What can I say, I have lying eyes.

Bees that fly in the rain, bees that fly early in the morning when its only 7.5 degrees C, bees that fly out at night at 9.30pm with no full moon, a Queen that lays workers in honey frames making workers that look the size of drones....oh, I forgot to tell you about the seriously little ones she produced too. They were from SC frames that hadnt been built out properly before she laid in the cells. they were about the size of a large fly.

Oh.. and paper wasps that head butt bees off flowers rather than eat them, or whatever they are supposed to do.

 

I have no problem telling you what I see, if you cant accept it, I dont have a problem with that either.

I find life fascinating and do know that most people are too busy to just sit down and watch.

 

 

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