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Ignorant People selling Garbage Bees


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So my strategy is;

 

I have search running on TradeMe for my rego number (I don't want identity fraud to get me)

I search the beekeeping listings for adds with no registration number, and I report it. This is often not successful. But if they are a shifty add trying to list as a single, but sell multiples you can report them for trying avoid fees... that certainly gets noticed.

 

Its a little thing, but makes it harder for them.

 

I do think that we are soft on AFB. When you think of other of life's big issues...

  1. Selling a few illegally caught fish, up to $250000 + up to 5years  https://www.govt.nz/browse/recreation-and-the-environment/hunting-and-fishing/fishing/
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Just had an experience that i think calls for a law change.   Out working bees today and got a call from someone cos the hive he recently bought has died. Close to where I was so went and to

I have a few other snippets of information that I believe will be enough for the ministry to find her, hopefully she will be dealt with in the next few days.   But the purpose of this thread

We get to pick up the pieces often from people getting ripped off not just AFB infected nucs but half arsed nucs walk,away nucs hives sold that would not even be classed as a nuc unfortunately the lis

47 minutes ago, Josh said:

What about this solution? I'm sure someone must have thought of this earlier.

 

While looking through MPI's website for sassy quotes above, I stumbled into this with respect to didimo. Surely this applies to AFB too.

 

"Biosecurity Act 1993. It is an offence under this Act to spread an unwanted organism, with penalties of up to 5 years imprisonment and/or a fine of up to $100,000"

 

Can this not be applied to AFB?

 

It might just be me who thinks this way, but why aren’t bodies that represent beekeepers talking this way and taking a lead? Yes, it costs money to prosecute, but I’d be happy to contribute, some for the carrot and some for the stick.

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2 hours ago, mischief said:

When the seller learnt that I was a never been, he said he would come up from Taupo to install it for me.

I understood from the way he said it that if I was found wanting, I would not get my hive.

and if that were the moral code bee providers followed, some of the problems could be resolved-  There could be resistance initially, but if it became clear that the success of a hive was linked in some way to the seller (ie disease free at sale, adequate bees, after sales support) and the newbee had to jump some hoops and prove their intent, it would increase the standards considerably.

 

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On 22/10/2018 at 1:30 AM, Alastair said:

Just had an experience that i think calls for a law change.

 

 

 In regards to AFB, a laboratory results, valid for 30 days, from a sample of few hives in the apiary, does good job.

 

BUT the results can say the hive is healthy and it still may die and be contagious. We simply don't know everything.

 

There is no solution. People are ignorant, oblivious, denial and always looking for the cause(excuse) outside of themselves. "They did not died from a disease. Some of my hives were foraging in pesticide sprayed areas, bringing the poisonous nectar in the hive. They died of pesticide poisoning. I know what a disease is!!!"

 

All business areas with expected high profit margins, attract the greedy part in every human. True, nobody owes you anything. The majority, though, don't realize that by hurting others, they hurt themselves (but who cares as long as still generates profit).

 

I would say - stop thinking how others should behave. Nobody is gonna do it for ya. It is something we have limited control. BUT we have full control over ourselves. There is no short cut. Become better than everybody else. 

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Can failure to declare AFB infections as required by AFB PMP and not declaring (or under reporting) hives and apiary sites for MAF and AFB PMP Levy purposes be regarded as 'crimes involving deceit'?

 

Crimes Amendment Act 2003  http://www.legislation.govt.nz/act/public/2003/0039/latest/DLM200200.html

Crimes involving deceit

240Obtaining by deception or causing loss by deception
  • (1)Every one is guilty of obtaining by deception or causing loss by deception who, by any deception and without claim of right,—

    • (a)obtains ownership or possession of, or control over, any property, or any privilege, service, pecuniary advantage, benefit, or valuable consideration, directly or indirectly; or

    • (b)in incurring any debt or liability, obtains credit; or

    • (c)induces or causes any other person to deliver over, execute, make, accept, endorse, destroy, or alter any document or thing capable of being used to derive a pecuniary advantage; or

    • (d)causes loss to any other person.

    (2)In this section, deception means—

    • (a)a false representation, whether oral, documentary, or by conduct, where the person making the representation intends to deceive any other person and—

      • (i)knows that it is false in a material particular; or

      • (ii)is reckless as to whether it is false in a material particular; or

    • (b)an omission to disclose a material particular, with intent to deceive any person, in circumstances where there is a duty to disclose it; or

    • (c)a fraudulent device, trick, or stratagem used with intent to deceive any person.

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4 minutes ago, Borage said:

Can failure to declare AFB infections as required by AFB PMP and not declaring (or under reporting) hives and apiary sites for MAF and AFB PMP Levy purposes be regarded as 'crimes involving deceit'?

Yes, but the problem would be proving it. Linking the loss directly to the offender. 

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On 30/10/2018 at 6:31 PM, Borage said:

Can failure to declare AFB infections as required by AFB PMP and not declaring (or under reporting) hives and apiary sites for MAF and AFB PMP Levy purposes be regarded as 'crimes involving deceit'?

 

Crimes Amendment Act 2003  http://www.legislation.govt.nz/act/public/2003/0039/latest/DLM200200.html

Crimes involving deceit

240Obtaining by deception or causing loss by deception
  • (1)Every one is guilty of obtaining by deception or causing loss by deception who, by any deception and without claim of right,—

    • (a)obtains ownership or possession of, or control over, any property, or any privilege, service, pecuniary advantage, benefit, or valuable consideration, directly or indirectly; or

    • (b)in incurring any debt or liability, obtains credit; or

    • (c)induces or causes any other person to deliver over, execute, make, accept, endorse, destroy, or alter any document or thing capable of being used to derive a pecuniary advantage; or

    • (d)causes loss to any other person.

    (2)In this section, deception means—

    • (a)a false representation, whether oral, documentary, or by conduct, where the person making the representation intends to deceive any other person and—

      • (i)knows that it is false in a material particular; or

      • (ii)is reckless as to whether it is false in a material particular; or

    • (b)an omission to disclose a material particular, with intent to deceive any person, in circumstances where there is a duty to disclose it; or

    • (c)a fraudulent device, trick, or stratagem used with intent to deceive any person.

    •  
    •  

Trouble is....the police dont always see bees as an asset, just a bunch of insects.

And unforutnately, they do not have unlimited resources to investigate dodgy bee sellers, so, we are on our own on this one.

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