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ApiNZ Levy Proposal

ApiNZ's Amended 2018 Commodity Levy Proposal

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Ok @Dennis Crowley I seem to have pushed your button! I think you have chosen to take my post in a way it has not been intended.

If you read my post again it says "APINZ and it's cohorts personally benefitting".

I don't think there is any doubt that APINZ as an organisation will benefit from the levy vote being passed. It will be like mana from heaven!

As to the 'cohorts' ? Perhaps you could read existing large hive holding entities in APINZ and those who will benefit directly from the expenditure of the millions of dollars entailed. By that I do not mean the ordinary smaller bee keepers of NZ.

The only conspiracy Dennis is the thinly veiled one being foisted on the beekeepers of NZ by APINZ. Many it seems, and perhaps that includes even yourself, cannot see the wood for the trees in this issue. The enjoyment and freedom you mention was not a result of compulsion by the likes of APINZ (which we may soon face) and is certainly in danger of being lost forever.

I have never questioned your personal values or your personal ethics @Dennis Crowley, only that of the organisation APINZ.

I do begin to feel that the more I express my opinion regarding what I see as the iniquity of the APINZ proposal the more a few people begin to post in a fashion that is deriding and perhaps attempting to belittle myself, or present me in a bad light. So be it. That will not change what is happening currently. It would be far better if APINZ and or it's supporters, CEO and all were to be more upfront in answering the questions and responding to the issues raised rather than personalising things.

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@Dennis Crowley @ApiNZ Levy Proposal

The extractor provides information to APINZ regarding quantity of honey processed by each beekeeper.  Didn't see anything about how the system is validated. 

APINZ then invoices each beekeeper 

How does APINZ know if the figures are correct? 

Beekeepers have to be correct to pass MPI audits- does APINZ have access to these records? 

I have posted similar questions twice before, no one seems to know as no one responded.

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@Ali I completely 100% support your view.

You say it far better than I can .

keep posting there’s alot of ostriches out there.

i voted for the levy at the conference I think it was the Christchurch one but that was before Apinz and before the corporates got so involved in our industry.

im completely against the way it’s to be levied, collected and structured now 

 

Edited by frazzledfozzle
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55 minutes ago, Gino de Graaf said:

@Dennis Crowley @ApiNZ Levy Proposal

The extractor provides information to APINZ regarding quantity of honey processed by each beekeeper.  Didn't see anything about how the system is validated. 

APINZ then invoices each beekeeper 

How does APINZ know if the figures are correct? 

Beekeepers have to be correct to pass MPI audits- does APINZ have access to these records? 

I have posted similar questions twice before, no one seems to know as no one responded.

So if you were a corporate looking for the next business to pick off and buy cheap, the place to be would be very close to APINZ as the number of hives and yield would be very valuable information. 

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1 hour ago, Sailabee said:

as the number of hives and yield would be very valuable information. 

 

Now that is something I hadn’t thought about !

theres got to be something illegal about anyone other than the owner of the honey having that info surely .

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@Ali every time someone takes offence at your words, you seem to get offended that they took offence ! !

If you read your words again, do you think it reasonable that a board member of ApiNZ might feel they came under the term 'cohort' you used, as personally profitting?

 

I do not know how the levy spending vote works but I do seem to recall that the ApiNZ board is based on 1 member/1 vote? So what would the ideal board (makeup, numbers etc) look like? Which members of the forum should be on any new board proposed? Damn, should have saved it for 'Question of the day'! Will have to come up with something else

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There is still some un answered queries that should be answered/clarified by @ApiNZ themselves.

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9 hours ago, Bee Good said:

There is still some un answered queries that should be answered/clarified by @ApiNZ themselves.

There surely are! I wonder if they are in damage limitation mode now? It does seem that where the facts may reinforce a justified negative view of their proposal that there is reticence to answer to the issues.

The question on quite a few minds now is whether if the levy vote is passed there will be a legal challenge?

Edited by Ali
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10 hours ago, Bee Good said:

There is still some un answered queries that should be answered/clarified by @ApiNZ themselves.

apinz still and their board members still refusing to post here about how the vote will be split for determining levy spend, i.e. are the votes of all levy payers weighted evenly, or are the votes weighted by levy paid.

 

pretty good chance that legal advice is being sought as to whether the mis-representation of this issue by apinz could result in the vote being void and the levy being a no-go.

 void due to lies from the levy beneficiary is the view of this layperson, not a specialist lawyer though...

 

unsurprisingly apinz are being silent on this issue, @Dennis Crowley too, although vocal and sounding legit on other fronts. Gagged on this one perhaps?

Edited by tommy dave
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23 hours ago, Sailabee said:

So if you were a corporate looking for the next business to pick off and buy cheap, the place to be would be very close to APINZ as the number of hives and yield would be very valuable information. 

 

Not even looking to pick off just come in over the top or approach the landowner with an open cheque book !

and with all the big boys being involved with Apinz it’s pretty certain they will have easy access to that info.

in my mind that others having access to this kind of info is worse than having corporates decide where our hard earned levy money is spent.

the whole thing smells like an old bait bag 

Edited by frazzledfozzle
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On 7/10/2018 at 7:50 PM, frazzledfozzle said:

 

We missed ours too for exactly the same reason 

I voted against, like we need another tax! Site rego went up after the last mpi servey then the BK number tax came in now a third tax what a load of crap

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@ApiNZ Levy Proposal

i have a question please. 

My business has 4 directors, I am the only Beek the hives are registered to. 

If we registered hives to each director would we all get a levy vote ?

Or, if the hives are registered to the business would all directors get a vote. 

Same question for voting on the levy spend. 

 

Thanks. 

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25 minutes ago, nikki watts said:

My business has 4 directors, I am the only Beek the hives are registered to. 

Surely your business is a company which owns and registers the hives/apiaries and you are the company contact person ?

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36 minutes ago, nikki watts said:

@ApiNZ Levy Proposal

i have a question please. 

My business has 4 directors, I am the only Beek the hives are registered to. 

If we registered hives to each director would we all get a levy vote ?

Or, if the hives are registered to the business would all directors get a vote. 

Same question for voting on the levy spend. 

 

Thanks. 

Exactly! You can see how a company with a large staff could load up the voting by registering hives in a wide range of names - even the company cat with the right name would be in with a grin. FF BIG already have the advantage on the executive by having put up someone to stand for the hobbyist seat from Whangarei which was always aligned to FF BIG and not the NBA, so I would expect that everyone in the area voted accordingly, hobbyist or not and the hobbyists have got jack-zip, and I doubt he will come up in rotation retirement and voting anytime soon. The real NBA beekeepers on the executive are on a hiding to nothing.

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22 minutes ago, yesbut said:

Surely your business is a company which owns and registers the hives/apiaries and you are the company contact person ?

The hives are registered to me. I am a director of the company. I would like to vote by my opinion and which is not necessarily  the same as the other directors 

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24 minutes ago, nikki watts said:

The hives are registered to me. I am a director of the company. I would like to vote by my opinion and which is not necessarily  the same as the other directors 

26 hives or more registered at 31st December 2018 seems to be their rule. Those in the know would have had time to make arrangements I suppose but it would seem to be too late to make registration changes now.

It is not my place to post in answer to what are properly APINZ's responsibility but as they seemingly won't give sufficient responses I will post my opinion re the levy voting.

I believe by way of the mixed information received that the levy spend vote is certainly a weighted vote in favour of those with large hive numbers. That is, the more levy you pay (by way of more hives/honey production) the more weight your vote has as to who/where our money goes.

Is that right @ApiNZ Levy Proposal?

In the event of the levy raising vote going through there will be some very happy would be recipients waiting in the wings. 

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1 minute ago, Ali said:

26 hives or more registered at 31st December 2018 seems to be their rule. Those in the know would have had time to make arrangements I suppose but it would seem to be too late to make registration changes now.

It is not my place to post in answer to what are properly APINZ's responsibility but as they seemingly won't give sufficient responses I will post my opinion re the levy voting.

I believe by way of the mixed information received that the levy spend vote is certainly a weighted vote in favour of those with large hive numbers. That is, the more levy you pay (by way of more hives/honey production) the more weight your vote has as to who/where our money goes.

Is that right @ApiNZ Levy Proposal?

In the event of the levy raising vote going through there will be some very happy would be recipients waiting in the wings. 

What’s wrong with the people who pay the most having the most say in how it’s spent ??

if we had to pay 10k into the fund  I’d like

more say than someone who paid $100. 

 

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4 minutes ago, Ali said:

26 hives or more registered at 31st December 2018 seems to be their rule. Those in the know would have had time to make arrangements I suppose but it would seem to be too late to make registration changes now

Yes, clearly I should have thought of this before now. 

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4 minutes ago, nikki watts said:

What’s wrong with the people who pay the most having the most say in how it’s spent ??

if we had to pay 10k into the fund  I’d like

more say than someone who paid $100. 

 

It is a very big debate! My concern centres about the fact we have a small group of large operators who will pretty much have complete control of the levy spend. The vast majority of levy payers in terms of numbers of people will end up with very little (none) say in the matter.

We have the entity that is APINZ ( attempting to achieve a very strong financial and political position) and a group of large operators (with vested interest) attempting to achieve a position of control over the majority of other people who have hives.

The potential for it all going wrong for the smaller operators is huge and I think probable.

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Under the old NBA system there was definitely a weighted vote. I can understand the justification for those who pay more having more say but I also like the idea of one person one vote.

Under the NBA system a few people went to extraordinary lengths to make sure they had the maximum number of votes, on the other hand every member had the opportunity to participate in open debate on any subject.That wasn't a straight, the more hives you have the more votes you get . Beyond a certain number of hives you didn't get any more votes.

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44 minutes ago, Ali said:

It is a very big debate! My concern centres about the fact we have a small group of large operators who will pretty much have complete control of the levy spend. The vast majority of levy payers in terms of numbers of people will end up with very little (none) say in the matter.

We have the entity that is APINZ ( attempting to achieve a very strong financial and political position) and a group of large operators (with vested interest) attempting to achieve a position of control over the majority of other people who have hives.

The potential for it all going wrong for the smaller operators is huge and I think probable.

I agree 100% with you. This is why I Havent made my mind up yet.

To many if’s and but’s.

i always come back to what’s the alternative???

we (mostly) all agree we need a change to help fund research and to be a unified industry but us smaller operators are petrified the big corporate will have all the say. 

I would imagine big corporations have most of the say in the other primary industries ?? 

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19 minutes ago, john berry said:

Beyond a certain number of hives you didn't get any more votes.

I like that idea. 

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I have unfortunately not received any voting information by mail  but I have received an email version which will enable me to vote.

I have just read and reread the section that refers to how decisions on spending the money will be made and I cannot decipher the meaning. I apologise for not putting up a link to information but that is beyond my current computer abilities.

I would really appreciate it if somebody from Apinz could both put the information up on this website and explain how the system will work in a lot more detail. 

In one sentence they talk about commercial directors making the decision and in another they talk about everyone having their say at the AGM and there is also mention of voting based on the amount of levy paid.

Unfortunately I cannot unravel the different statements and would also like a clear indication of how votes will be weighted and how and when those weighted votes will be able to be used and whether the board or the majority vote will have the final say on spending options.

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@john berry did the old NBA operate any trading/commercial activity ?

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2 hours ago, Ali said:

26 hives or more registered at 31st December 2018 seems to be their rule. Those in the know would have had time to make arrangements I suppose but it would seem to be too late to make registration changes now.

It is not my place to post in answer to what are properly APINZ's responsibility but as they seemingly won't give sufficient responses I will post my opinion re the levy voting.

I believe by way of the mixed information received that the levy spend vote is certainly a weighted vote in favour of those with large hive numbers. That is, the more levy you pay (by way of more hives/honey production) the more weight your vote has as to who/where our money goes.

Is that right @ApiNZ Levy Proposal?

In the event of the levy raising vote going through there will be some very happy would be recipients waiting in the wings. 

So .... I got a heap of honey and a heap of hives, and no one from APINZ has approached me for my point of view ..... obviously not enough collateral .

Edited by jamesc

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