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ApiNZ Levy Proposal

ApiNZ's Amended 2018 Commodity Levy Proposal

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Who is going to step in and help the likely causalities of an imminent slowdown?

When there is a drought in the farming sector assistance is provided through a number of channels?

What Id like to see is a levy funded treatment fund available for those in dire need and we would  need someone to administer this sort of program

If this sounds far fetched is definitely is not.

Gone are the days where a Hive's intrinsic value is justification for spending whatever is necessary to protect it from Varroa

We are now in a situation where there just isnt the cash flow available to buy treatments.

If we dont have some sort of governing body and if we dont treat our Hives over the next few years we are history.
With regard treatments the Staple is ideal in times like this because the receiving Beekeeper is able to input their labor to the product.
Staples can be provided for less than 50 cents and in some cases as little as 30 cents.
The OA/ GL is available for about 10 cents per Staple and the Cookers are not expensive and able to be group shared.

 

Disclosure 

I produce Paper Tape Staples.

 

 

 

 

 

 

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32 minutes ago, Philbee said:

the Cookers are not expensive

Wait a minute, we now have "cookers" ?

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4 hours ago, frazzledfozzle said:

So, defeating the Apiculture NZ proposal is just the start. NZ Beekeeping would work across the industry to really identify problems and genuinely agree on:
a) the issues facing the industry
b) the priority of these issues (what’s most important and urgent), and
c) the best way to really tackle the priority problems to benefit all beekeepers.
Whatever we do needs to have beekeepers and good beekeeping at its heart.
 Get involved – Vote! And join an organisation, and say what you think
 Vote NO to the Apiculture NZ Commodity Levy idea
 Help beekeeper - led organisations like NZ Beekeeping work out how to
really tackle the problems facing us, our bees and our businesses.
JANE LORIMER President
 NEW ZEALAND BEEKEEPING INCORPORATED | Email info@nzbeekeeping.co.nz | January 2019

I just hope all the family operators get out and have their say. The death knell of the smaller businesses is clearly written with the interests of the large operators being held to the fore through APINZ

Don't let what happened to the NZ fishing industry happen to ours!

The only immediate benefit I can foresee for the first 2-3 years is APINZ and it's cohorts personally benefiting from our very hard earned money.

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Some of us don't want to get steamrolled by Beekeeping Inc.  Some people have got v short memories.  The Canty branch of the NBA transferred over to Beekeeping Inc.  In the end the Canty NBA was run by a bunch of narrow minded autocrats, holding a lot of money accumulated by beekeeper members and this should have been used for industry good & continuing education in Canterbury & Westland.  God help you if you didn't agree with the Canty NBA.  They ran the NBA to the ground.  In Canterbury & Westland, NBA members had absolutely no say in how the branch was run.  It was oppressive, like a communist regime, and heaven help you if you had a different point of view.  It was typical to only get 24 hours notice for a minuted meeting, and the same applied to AGM notices.  Hence, because they only ever got a quorum to AGMs, they were able to keep it at a v small controlling tight knit group.  There was absolutely no respect for how other people thought.  Hence the split at the time into BIG; prior to ApiNZ.  In Canterbury we now have a Beekeeping Inc group (previously the Canty NBA branch), with main players who are well funded (from previous Canty NBA money), full time, professional protestors.  No matter what happens in life, or whether or not the Levy goes through, these people will never be happy, that is nature. 

 

I agree, that everyone who is entitled to vote, should do so 

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On 24/01/2019 at 7:24 AM, Margaret Anne said:

Some of us don't want to get steamrolled by Beekeeping Inc.  Some people have got v short memories.  The Canty branch of the NBA transferred over to Beekeeping Inc.  In the end the Canty NBA was run by a bunch of narrow minded autocrats, holding a lot of money accumulated by beekeeper members and this should have been used for industry good & continuing education in Canterbury & Westland.  God help you if you didn't agree with the Canty NBA.  They ran the NBA to the ground.  In Canterbury & Westland, NBA members had absolutely no say in how the branch was run.  It was oppressive, like a communist regime, and heaven help you if you had a different point of view.  It was typical to only get 24 hours notice for a minuted meeting, and the same applied to AGM notices.  Hence, because they only ever got a quorum to AGMs, they were able to keep it at a v small controlling tight knit group.  There was absolutely no respect for how other people thought.  Hence the split at the time into BIG; prior to ApiNZ.  In Canterbury we now have a Beekeeping Inc group (previously the Canty NBA branch), with main players who are well funded (from previous Canty NBA money), full time, professional protestors.  No matter what happens in life, or whether or not the Levy goes through, these people will never be happy, that is nature. 

 

I agree, that everyone who is entitled to vote, should do so 

I received the email below from a member of the old CHCH NBA today, It appears that you don't realise that NZ Beekeeping in CHCH are the residual of those who stayed true to the NBA, not the absconders!

 

 

Seems the writer needed a longer memory than they actually were able to write about.

The Canty NBA was deserted by those that were opposed to the last NBA commodity levy, they left under the banner of Federated Farmers, in 2002.  That in itself is interesting, to align with an organisation that have earned a reputation of professional protestors- now FF are on a backpedal on environmental degradation including the removal of important bee feed (weeds that farmers imported, used and spread---gorse). They too are the users of the stuff toxic to bees and sometimes cause bee deaths through carelessness. Now the farmers lobby is well  established in ApiNZ to promote farmers clip the ticket for beekeeper land access!

Back in 2002 onwards the Canty NBA picked itself up and did industry stuff, like what Apinz crow about now – engaging with ERMA, the predecessor of EPA, regarding chemical issues and bee safety. In fact their action was a forerunner and formed the NBA Committee, later to be called the Apinz Science and Focus Group but under NBA it did not have the vested interest people becoming involved to manipulate the cash cow it could become if a commodity levy is established.

Yes a small Canty NBA group did stuff for beekeepers, provided field days and raised money to continue their work. They were pretty disappointed when the group that continued doing little under the BIG came back and manipulated a ‘take over’ of the NBA. Naturally the small group that worked hard and had research underway sought to protect what they had worked for and were trying to achieve by vesting their energy and resources into an organisation that would respect their intentions. A bit like the little red hen wanted to share the bread she made with those that helped her make the bread. 

The old NBA Canty Branch worked with others, in particular the Waikato Branch, to fight against imported honey. Prior to the NBA/BIG split the NBA was led by a president and some executive members that were sympathetic to the Federated Farmers ethos. Government wanted to provide for imported honey to be allowed into NZ. It was happening, the former NBA  president and his mates said, beekeepers better just accept it is impossible to stop the govt. With the split, NBA continued the opposition to imported honey, including court action against the Government. Meanwhile the Feds group, BIG, did little to prevent imported honey and did not seem to want to protect their members when it comes to biosecurity and the world trading environment. Nor it seems do FF and ApiNZ now support NZ primary producers by supporting Country of Origin labelling for food items. Under a commodity levy will ApiNZ fight so strong against future imports of honey? ApiNZ and the people running it have no history in this area so far, and their corporate mates are possibly the ones that would want to trade in imported honey.

Pity Margret Anne does not have a better grasp of the history she quotes and it appears she has a Canterbury eye patch –one would think hers is actually a blindfold. We would suggest when the blindfold is removed there is a mirror handy and she can reflect that maybe the group  she is supporting also have some issues with ethics she accuses others of.  History does have a pattern of repeating and the wheel is oft being reinvented, no different with the proposals we consider today.

Some that were round and paid when the NBA had its last commodity  levy will remember the ‘industry good’ that formed the promotion for the levy at the time being terminated because the administration had an insatiable financial demand and there was not enough money left for marketing or the AFB PMS. Incidentally Federated Farmers provided administration services to NBA, funded through the commodity levy at the time.

All of want some Father Christmas for the industry that will promote our individual views and provide what we want but the reality is with the fragmentation of the industry that started when a group of beekeepers in Canterbury broke from the NBA and formed a separate organisation (BIG) we have lost the ability for those that are ‘industry minded’ to meet in a forum of open discussion and outcomes for mutual benefit.

It alarms some if the commodity levy succeeds then ApiNZ will ‘advocate’ for all yet we have seen no opportunity nor a structure in ApiNZ that offers a forum where policy and industry views are established by the members – the beekeepers. The structure of ApiNZ is such that influence is by  the groups that have sufficient resources to maintain a seat on the board. If a levy is established then beekeepers expect the organisation to be totally funded and run with levy payers only. Warts and all the old constitution and rules of the NBA would need to be resurrected in order that the beneficiaries, the levy payers, have an organisation that truly represents them.

The proposal is simply a tax on those that produce honey and those taxes will support little more than a bunch of bureaucrats in Apinz, promoting feel good stuff beekeepers have little need or support for.

 

 

Personally, I found this history interesting because it seems to indicate that the very people who absconded from the  NBA to avoid a levy, now they have places at the executive table have changed religions - although not in a way that would have the jar fillers and gear sellers paying the levy.

 

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Hello Sailabee

There is nothing wrong with my memory and I am proud to be a Cantabarian, and previously was happy to pay a levy.

 

I have never head of the ChCh NBA and was unaware that Beekeeping Inc now have a branch in ChCh.  I don't ever recall honey being imported into NZ because of Federated Farmers. 

If the "small Canterbury NBA group" were so wonderful, why were they always "small"?

 

What I find bizarre is that members of Beekeeping Inc don't have the guts to make forum posts themselves, and either have to do so via a forum member or under an alias.  I am unsure from Frazzled Fozzle's post on 23/1/19 as to whether this is actually Jane Lorimer.

 

I hope that you and your Beekeeping Inc friends are not up to the wee hours tonight, drafting another diatribe epistle to answer this brief post.

 

I encourage everyone that is entitled to vote, to consider the facts, making their own decision.

 

 

 

 

 


 

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37 minutes ago, Margaret Anne said:

  I am unsure from Frazzled Fozzle's post on 23/1/19 as to whether this is actually Jane Lorimer.

I can assure you that they are not the same person ?

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53 minutes ago, M4tt said:

I can assure you that they are not the same person ?

Correct

 

I have mentioned it to senior Beekeepers Inc  (age and or responsibilities in the organisation) that their internet savvy is letting them down.

Even the recent email sent out signed as being written by Jane had me slightly bemused by its lack of screen appeal.

Small things but in order to be credible and garner more support they need to look the part.

Apinz on that point “look more credible”.

I know these posts are read by Beekeeping Inc members who don’t log in to the forum.

Of note too is Russel Berry saying there are too many beekeepers in NZ affecting their business profitability (quite likely true), yet they want beekeeper support???? You can’t bite the hand that feeds you.

At the moment I am undecided, there is too much BS being flung around at present and I haven’t developed my BS filter well enough to know who’s right and who’s taking the mick.

 

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44 minutes ago, dansar said:

Correct

 

I have mentioned it to senior Beekeepers Inc  (age and or responsibilities in the organisation) that their internet savvy is letting them down.

Even the recent email sent out signed as being written by Jane had me slightly bemused by its lack of screen appeal.

Small things but in order to be credible and garner more support they need to look the part.

Apinz on that point “look more credible”.

I know these posts are read by Beekeeping Inc members who don’t log in to the forum.

Of note too is Russel Berry saying there are too many beekeepers in NZ affecting their business profitability (quite likely true), yet they want beekeeper support???? You can’t bite the hand that feeds you.

At the moment I am undecided, there is too much BS being flung around at present and I haven’t developed my BS filter well enough to know who’s right and who’s taking the mick.

 

at the moment i'm really close to the hive threshold and well over the kilos extracted threshold, but haven't ever sold any honey. Debating contacting them about getting a vote. But then i'd have to decide how to vote, think i'll save myself the hassle.

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1 hour ago, dansar said:

Correct

 

I have mentioned it to senior Beekeepers Inc  (age and or responsibilities in the organisation) that their internet savvy is letting them down.

Even the recent email sent out signed as being written by Jane had me slightly bemused by its lack of screen appeal.

Small things but in order to be credible and garner more support they need to look the part.

Apinz on that point “look more credible”.

I know these posts are read by Beekeeping Inc members who don’t log in to the forum.

Of note too is Russel Berry saying there are too many beekeepers in NZ affecting their business profitability (quite likely true), yet they want beekeeper support???? You can’t bite the hand that feeds you.

At the moment I am undecided, there is too much BS being flung around at present and I haven’t developed my BS filter well enough to know who’s right and who’s taking the mick.

 

All the above re Beekeeping Inc is precisely why this insular and negative group is yesterday's management

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3 minutes ago, Margaret Anne said:

All the above re Beekeeping Inc is precisely why this insular and negative group is yesterday's management

There are a group of competent younger ones (less than 50yo?)in the team. The old guard needs to pass the torch on to them.

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Some of the old guard may not be too keen to pass on the torch but by far the biggest problem I have encountered in beekeeping politics is the younger ones not been interested in picking it up. I belong to and have friends in both organisations and I see encouraging signs that both are attempting to communicate more with their members. I'm not entirely in favour of the new levy proposal but I am also not entirely against it and have not yet decided how I will vote.

There is no doubt in my mind that we need some sort of research levy. Most of you would not believe just how often and how deeply some beekeepers put their hands into their own pockets every time there is a problem . That was not such a problem when we all respected each other and each other's hives but it gets tiring funding research for the benefit of all when some of those people just don't deserve it.

I may be wrong but I suspect a lot higher percentage of those with their hands in their own pockets belong to New Zealand beekeeping Inc and those that don't deserve it in apiculture New Zealand but of course there will be some of each in both and a lot more that belong to neither.

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Just seen a clip on ONE NEWS on beekeeping, mainly based around an introduction of a comodity levy from APINZ.

Karin Kos fronted to say that the levy would be benificial in recomending better beekeeping practices.

 

So what are better Beekeeping Practices and how would paying a levy help a commercial beeker with these practices

 

I already  get my best beekeeping practices from the knowledgable folk on this website. for free

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20 minutes ago, Bee Good said:

 

Just seen a clip on ONE NEWS on beekeeping, mainly based around an introduction of a comodity levy from APINZ.

Karin Kos fronted to say that the levy would be benificial in recomending better beekeeping practices.

 

So what are better Beekeeping Practices

 

I didn’t see the article but ‘best practice ‘ refers to insuring that things are being done properly and has the intended flow on effect of keeping markets open or consumers happy .

Best practice is a large umbrella encompassing animal welfare ,  also food safety and staff amongst other things I imagine .

Its possibly a feel good name for compliance . 

Then again, I may have misinterpreted 

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5 minutes ago, M4tt said:

I didn’t see the article but ‘best practice ‘ refers to insuring that things are being done properly and has the intended flow on effect of keeping markets open or consumers happy .

Best practice is a large umbrella encompassing animal welfare ,  also food safety and staff amongst other things I imagine .

Its possibly a feel good name for compliance . 

Then again, I may have misinterpreted 

I didn't see it either but the reference to better Beekeeping practices could  be about AFB

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4 minutes ago, M4tt said:

I didn’t see the article but ‘best practice ‘ refers to insuring that things are being done properly and has the intended flow on effect of keeping markets open or consumers happy .

Best practice is a large umbrella encompassing animal welfare ,  also food safety and staff amongst other things I imagine .

Its possibly a feel good name for compliance . 

Then again, I may have misinterpreted 

Yeh  it was kind of a loaded question anyway,

Best practice ,what all well meaning bekeepers are already doing, not sure i should have to pay someone to tell me how to do what im already doing.

 

I may have misinterpreted myself.

 

Good point about the compliance, did,nt think about that angle,  sort of things that come up in boardroom meetings when there throwing ideas around.

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On 27/01/2019 at 8:48 PM, john berry said:

those that don't deserve it in apiculture New Zealand

Well John thats a Gem

I can tell you that at least one person who has done as much for beekeeping as any person in this country will soon be a member of ApiNZ.

Whatsmore this person was Talking with another Beekeeper recently who told them that on approaching a senior BKNZ person and asking for guidance, was so aggressively dealt with that they had to raise their hands in defense of the forthcoming barrage.

 

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56 minutes ago, M4tt said:

I didn’t see the article but ‘best practice ‘ refers to insuring that things are being done properly and has the intended flow on effect of keeping markets open or consumers happy .

Best practice is a large umbrella encompassing animal welfare ,  also food safety and staff amongst other things I imagine .

Its possibly a feel good name for compliance . 

Then again, I may have misinterpreted 

Now I've seen it.

 

Given the article was based on overstocking and starving bees, you'd assume The 'best practice' being referred to would be lowering hive numbers and getting apiaries back to 3 km apart and beekeepers playing happy families, but because the rest of the article was about growing more manuka and making more manuka honey off waste land, I'm more inclined to believe that part of the levy fund is going to be spent on researching just how much more manuka can be grown to sustain and ever growing number of hives to harvest the manuka honey and how high a stocking rate can they go .

And the reason I believe it is the latter is because manuka is where the money is and that's where the research money will be spent.

 

Reading between the lines it has nothing to do with the small business family beekeeper producing low value honey and researching how to keep them in business 

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it's all been and is  a manuka issue.  Over crowding, boundary riders, theft, blending, adding DHA/MGO, hive health,  MPI standards, MPI audits, is directly related to the rise of manuka. 

 

'if' manuka never took off, I would still be looked at as the odd bloke in a martian suit driving a ute. 

 

So manuka dudes pay your fair dues- oh hang on it's too complicated....and lucky for them they pay a lot less proportionally compared to bottom feeders trying to sell a drum or two.   

Manuka makers have very little to be worried about at 10cents on $20 bucks (and the rest) 

 

I don't much like the board make up.  I like Dennis though, though he's also a manuka chaser. And a few others in APInz represent large manuka players.  They will influence to protect.

I can't really complain though,

I harvest a box of good old plain stuff-

an no one is chasing a levy for my pollination service... 

 

 

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I spoke to an interesting philanthropist a month back and  they were very concerned about mono culture Manuka plantations.

They were using the term "Mono culture" in the context of potential Manuka strain diversity or lack of 

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49 minutes ago, Philbee said:

Well John thats a Gem

I can tell you that at least one person who has done as much for beekeeping as any person in this country will soon be a member of ApiNZ.

Whatsmore this person was Talking with another Beekeeper recently who told them that on approaching a senior BKNZ person and asking for guidance, was so aggressively dealt with that they had to raise their hands in defense of the forthcoming barrage.

 

Slightly out of context but nevertheless that's the way I see it. As for BKNZ People being unapproachable, that's not what I've found but then I know most of them. Having helped several people in the past and then had them dump hives on top of me I'm not so free and easy with the information these days either.I still help a lot of beekeepers but I am a lot more selective because I have been hurt financially and had my trust in mankind severely strained. 

I'm now hearing a lot of newer beekeepers who in all honesty pushed pretty close to existing beekeepers complaining about new beekeepers doing exactly the same thing to them.

It would be a mistake to think that all beekeepers used to get on but in general there was a lot of idea sharing and cooperation and if somebody got sick or injured you just went and helped  with no thought of any remuneration.

If I went with modern ethics, every time someone rang me I would charge $200 an hour to tell them there was lots of room for tens of thousands more hives but I'm too old-fashioned for that and if they don't want to hear that there are already too many hives and nowhere to put new hives without hurting an existing beekeeper then they shouldn't of rung up looking for free but honest advice.

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36 minutes ago, john berry said:

Slightly out of context but nevertheless that's the way I see it. As for BKNZ People being unapproachable, that's not what I've found but then I know most of them. Having helped several people in the past and then had them dump hives on top of me I'm not so free and easy with the information these days either.I still help a lot of beekeepers but I am a lot more selective because I have been hurt financially and had my trust in mankind severely strained. 

I'm now hearing a lot of newer beekeepers who in all honesty pushed pretty close to existing beekeepers complaining about new beekeepers doing exactly the same thing to them.

It would be a mistake to think that all beekeepers used to get on but in general there was a lot of idea sharing and cooperation and if somebody got sick or injured you just went and helped  with no thought of any remuneration.

If I went with modern ethics, every time someone rang me I would charge $200 an hour to tell them there was lots of room for tens of thousands more hives but I'm too old-fashioned for that and if they don't want to hear that there are already too many hives and nowhere to put new hives without hurting an existing beekeeper then they shouldn't of rung up looking for free but honest advice.

Fair enough John

One point I will make with regard  Hive numbers, yes there are too many Hives, however a move to arbitrarily install a 3km rule without research that includes new Varroa control techniques would be a huge mistake in my opinion.
Research into the relationship between Varroa, Hive densities and Hive production are critical to any legislation  on Hive densities.
I hope this opinion finds its way to the relevant parties.

New Technology challenges existing beliefs 

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8 hours ago, Philbee said:

Fair enough John

One point I will make with regard  Hive numbers, yes there are too many Hives, however a move to arbitrarily install a 3km rule without research that includes new Varroa control techniques would be a huge mistake in my opinion.
Research into the relationship between Varroa, Hive densities and Hive production are critical to any legislation  on Hive densities.
I hope this opinion finds its way to the relevant parties.

New Technology challenges existing beliefs 

the 3km won't work.  Too many within that range now, and even before varroa areas had many sites within. 

Besides, the more beehives the more staples.. 

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1 hour ago, Gino de Graaf said:

the 3km won't work.  Too many within that range now, and even before varroa areas had many sites within. 

Besides, the more beehives the more staples.. 

Lol

More Staples less sleep

 

 

Edited by Philbee
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On 23 January 2019 at 12:05 PM, Ali said:

I just hope all the family operators get out and have their say. The death knell of the smaller businesses is clearly written with the interests of the large operators being held to the fore through APINZ

Don't let what happened to the NZ fishing industry happen to ours!

The only immediate benefit I can foresee for the first 2-3 years is APINZ and it's cohorts personally benefiting from our very hard earned money.

Ali get your head out of your ....are.... conspiracy playbook. I would contend that all those on the board of APINZ, and the NBA and NZBeekeeping have never personally benefitted from their work on any of those boards. In fact, most of them myself included it has cost us personally and financially and I would have a less stressful live if I went sailing instead of to all these meetings or having to pay others to do whats needed while I'm away. I do it because I love this industry and want others to have the enjoyment and freedom that i have had, but for you to even imply that we are personally benefiting well you can just go and take a flying leap.

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