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What does 'pure manuka' mean?

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1 hour ago, Gino de Graaf said:

Lindaloo- better half set the membership up for me,  not a user name I would have chosen....  

Changed it a few months ago. 

I liked her , she was another girl with good ideas.

But she wasn't a girl .

I feel cheated .?:6_smile:

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5 hours ago, Adam Boot said:

 I have answered every question or criticism.

i don't doubt that the honey you market meets and surpasses the MPI manuka honey standards.

I have no problem with using marketing methods to attract a premium price, that's the way the world works.

I would prefer if you didn't imply that other manuka honey of NZ origin that meets the same standards is in any way inferior, but i'm not even sure if you do imply that.

 

One question. Is the honey marketed under this label the blend of a number of batches, many of which wouldn't pass the MPI test in isolation?

genuinely curious, and agree that you can use manuka mono to label these blends given that is how the law around the labelling is written.

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13 minutes ago, tommy dave said:

i don't doubt that the honey you market meets and surpasses the MPI manuka honey standards.

I have no problem with using marketing methods to attract a premium price, that's the way the world works.

I would prefer if you didn't imply that other manuka honey of NZ origin that meets the same standards is in any way inferior, but i'm not even sure if you do imply that.

 

One question. Is the honey marketed under this label the blend of a number of batches, many of which wouldn't pass the MPI test in isolation?

genuinely curious, and agree that you can use manuka mono to label these blends given that is how the law around the labelling is written.

Hi Tommy. I have never implied that any brand meeting the same criteria is inferior. Just that the PURITI pass mark for the four chemical markers is set higher. Testing for Glyphosate is just a decision we made. Any brand could choose to do the same. The choice will always be with the consumer. The reason we put it all on the label including both UMF and MGO is just to provide the consumer all the information possible. 

It answer to your question. We certainly do not segregate each individual barrel and jar separately. We do however search for batches that pass our standard in their entirety. 5+ Mono is very difficult to achieve without and element of blending. There is no trickery everything is to the letter of the law. 

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3 minutes ago, Adam Boot said:

Hi Tommy. I have never implied that any brand meeting the same criteria is inferior. Just that the PURITI pass mark for the four chemical markers is set higher. Testing for Glyphosate is just a decision we made. Any brand could choose to do the same. The choice will always be with the consumer. The reason we put it all on the label including both UMF and MGO is just to provide the consumer all the information possible. 

It answer to your question. We certainly do not segregate each individual barrel and jar separately. We do however search for batches that pass our standard in their entirety. 5+ Mono is very difficult to achieve without and element of blending. There is no trickery everything is to the letter of the law. 

thanks for your post and its clarity. Pure is a dangerous term eh ;)

 

I think this whole thread is an interesting study in a couple of things.

1 - there is still discomfort with the MPI honey definition, and some don't like people taking it as what we have to work with and going from there

2 - marketing/brand definition/targeting consumerism/image/call it what you will is something that encounters a bunch of opposition or suspicion among some groups - and i suspect beekeepers in general are at the 'anti-flashy-marketing-spin' end of the spectrum. I doubt any object to being paid more at the drum level for honey produced though....

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40 minutes ago, tommy dave said:

thanks for your post and its clarity. Pure is a dangerous term eh ;)

 

I think this whole thread is an interesting study in a couple of things.

1 - there is still discomfort with the MPI honey definition, and some don't like people taking it as what we have to work with and going from there

2 - marketing/brand definition/targeting consumerism/image/call it what you will is something that encounters a bunch of opposition or suspicion among some groups - and i suspect beekeepers in general are at the 'anti-flashy-marketing-spin' end of the spectrum. I doubt any object to being paid more at the drum level for honey produced though....

Marketing is an awesome thing. Bad marketing however can be very damaging to a product or industry. 

Puriti's hyperbolic nonsense turns intelligent consumers off. 

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1 hour ago, CraBee said:

So given this whole thread is dedicated to Puriti's launch and free publicity, and there is no "Wanted" option on nzbees,  I am trying again.  I am looking for manuka honey - one tonne approx to 1.2 tonne, does not have to meet either the Monofloral or Multifloral standard, can have very very low activity but must pass the "Duck" test.  That is it must have the colour, smell and taste of manuka, not some bush blend.  Ready to buy now and pay you now so it can be packed to fulfil an order....PM me if interested.

 

We don't have that kind of standard for manuka anymore, it is now 4 chemical markers and the pollen dna test. Taste, smell, texture, colour etc is not important anymore. That used to be that way when Codex Alimentarius was the accepted standard.

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1 minute ago, Gerrit said:

 

We don't have that kind of standard for manuka anymore, it is now 4 chemical markers and the pollen dna test. Taste, smell, texture, colour etc is not important anymore. That used to be that way when Codex Alimentarius was the accepted standard.

 

It is important to me, particularly if I'm holding it out to my customer as being manuka.  The market is within NZ.

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2 hours ago, CraBee said:

So given this whole thread is dedicated to Puriti's launch and free publicity, and there is no "Wanted" option on nzbees,  I am trying again.  I am looking for manuka honey - one tonne approx to 1.2 tonne, does not have to meet either the Monofloral or Multifloral standard, can have very very low activity but must pass the "Duck" test.  That is it must have the colour, smell and taste of manuka, not some bush blend.  Ready to buy now and pay you now so it can be packed to fulfil an order....PM me if interested.

Mines been duck tested and more, 900kg,s available at mo, no idea how to pm.

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5 minutes ago, Bee Good said:

Mines been duck tested and more, 900kg,s available at mo, no idea how to pm

You can't pm without donating

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4 hours ago, Adam Boot said:

 Foreign media are making some pretty detrimental comments at the moment and they are being fuelled by some expensive high profile publicity and marketing campaigns aimed squarely at undermining our industry and advance quite spurious testing and grading. A greater awareness of international views, comments, queries, questions and concerns may well point us all in a unified direction. 

 

 Can you tell us more about this ?

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12 hours ago, yesbut said:

I must admit I've had wonderings in the past about the name and tone/content of postings, thinking Grant was going to have to put up a new gender option !!   For the record (again) I'm Tony Haddon 

Hi Tony,  you probably will need to go on the 'record' often as people tend to forget.. 

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11 hours ago, kaihoka said:

I liked her , she was another girl with good ideas.

But she wasn't a girl .

I feel cheated .?:6_smile:

glad to hear you liked the ideas. 

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8 hours ago, frazzledfozzle said:

 

 Can you tell us more about this ?

 

8 hours ago, frazzledfozzle said:

 

 Can you tell us more about this ?

I have an article, somewhere, from the Times of London dated early august. All shipments of Manuka Honey going onto the shelves of Holland &Barrett health food shops in the UK will be batch tested to ascertain that they are what the label says they are. 

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I'm going to weigh in on this truly unusual thread. In my opinion good on ya @adamboot you have created quite the stir on this forum. We all need marketers to on sell the amazing honey we mass produce, and putting our fantastic unadulterated, traceable and mega tested honey into fancy little jars that are true to label is just what's needed.

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36 minutes ago, Harlan Cox said:

I'm going to weigh in on this truly unusual thread. In my opinion good on ya @adamboot you have created quite the stir on this forum. We all need marketers to on sell the amazing honey we mass produce, and putting our fantastic unadulterated, traceable and mega tested honey into fancy little jars that are true to label is just what's needed.

Harlan. Thank you. Someone who gets the big picture. Finally!

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1 hour ago, jamesc said:

 

I have an article, somewhere, from the Times of London dated early august. All shipments of Manuka Honey going onto the shelves of Holland &Barrett health food shops in the UK will be batch tested to ascertain that they are what the label says they are. 

In the last month there have been articles in the London Times, The Telegraph, Hong Kong Post and articles from the USA all on the same subjects. This is a snap shot and there is more coming. It is every couple of weeks now. The subjects are testing, failure to meet label, confusion over standards etc The Holland & Barratt issue is now part of their new $2.5m marketing campaign. They have tried to take the high ground on testing as part of the marketing exercise. However you need to delve deeper. The exercise is designed to promote MGO only. They refer to applying the NZ standard but are infact not testing to the MPI Definition at all. They are just ensuring MGO levels. Additionally they own a number of the brands they sell so are infact testing themselves. Also these brands are not all packed in NZ so the Definition has not been applied. They are currently promoting 500g 70MGO for $105 nod buy one, second one for a penny. So $50 per jar for something that would not pass mono or 5+. 

This is what we are all up against. 

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13 hours ago, kaihoka said:

I liked her , she was another girl with good ideas.

But she wasn't a girl .

I feel cheated .?:6_smile:

I wondered where she had got to.I thought she had gone on holiday to Canada.

 

13 hours ago, kaihoka said:

I liked her , she was another girl with good ideas.

But she wasn't a girl .

I feel cheated .?:6_smile:

 

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49 minutes ago, Adam Boot said:

In the last month there have been articles in the London Times, The Telegraph, Hong Kong Post and articles from the USA all on the same subjects. This is a snap shot and there is more coming. It is every couple of weeks now. The subjects are testing, failure to meet label, confusion over standards etc The Holland & Barratt issue is now part of their new $2.5m marketing campaign. They have tried to take the high ground on testing as part of the marketing exercise. However you need to delve deeper. The exercise is designed to promote MGO only. They refer to applying the NZ standard but are infact not testing to the MPI Definition at all. They are just ensuring MGO levels. Additionally they own a number of the brands they sell so are infact testing themselves. Also these brands are not all packed in NZ so the Definition has not been applied. They are currently promoting 500g 70MGO for $105 nod buy one, second one for a penny. So $50 per jar for something that would not pass mono or 5+. 

This is what we are all up against. 

Adam,I admire all the work you are doing but I will ask you has your honey been tested for 1080 residues.This is part of our clean green image surely.Have you done pollen count on your honey or has this gone by the board now ? If so that means we do not belong to the codex allementariuos club.Am I right?

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1 minute ago, Bighands said:

Adam,I admire all the work you are doing but I will ask you has your honey been tested for 1080 residues.This is part of our clean green image surely.Have you done pollen count on your honey or has this gone by the board now ? If so that means we do not belong to the codex allementariuos club.Am I right?

Pollen is still critical. As for 1080. I have this under advice at the moment. We have initiated some work to determine requirement, feasibility and government position. We are also talking to international customers and distributors. I also need to confirm that 1080 is not checked already under another of our testing regimes? I appreciate that this is a subject close to the hearts a number of people in NZ. I can hand on heart though confidently say that in all the time that I have sold internationally, there has not been one single person ever raise the subject. I am regularly asked about Glyphosate but never 1080. Now I accept that is no indication of importance so I will investigate.

 

Adam

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1 hour ago, Adam Boot said:

In the last month there have been articles in the London Times, The Telegraph, Hong Kong Post and articles from the USA all on the same subjects. This is a snap shot and there is more coming. It is every couple of weeks now. The subjects are testing, failure to meet label, confusion over standards etc The Holland & Barratt issue is now part of their new $2.5m marketing campaign. They have tried to take the high ground on testing as part of the marketing exercise. However you need to delve deeper. The exercise is designed to promote MGO only. They refer to applying the NZ standard but are infact not testing to the MPI Definition at all. They are just ensuring MGO levels. Additionally they own a number of the brands they sell so are infact testing themselves. Also these brands are not all packed in NZ so the Definition has not been applied. They are currently promoting 500g 70MGO for $105 nod buy one, second one for a penny. So $50 per jar for something that would not pass mono or 5+. 

This is what we are all up against. 

 

The other thing to consider with Fera (who claim to have developed the testing methods but which were actually developed in NZ) testing MGO, DHA and even leptosperin . . .is that all the Australian 'manuka' honeys may sail through these criteria.

"But they don't have 'product of New Zealand' on them"

"Print those new labels"

"Fixed it"

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26 minutes ago, JohnF said:

 

The other thing to consider with Fera (who claim to have developed the testing methods but which were actually developed in NZ) testing MGO, DHA and even leptosperin . . .is that all the Australian 'manuka' honeys may sail through these criteria.

"But they don't have 'product of New Zealand' on them"

"Print those new labels"

"Fixed it"

Spot on. But even more important is. Harvested in NZ, Packed in NZ, tested in NZ certified in NZ. 

Unfortunately produced can be used on jars packed overseas if the bulk honey came from NZ

If we make enough noise Fera and others will look to the MPI Definition for guidance. 

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I have seen product of Great Britain printed on Manuka in hospitals.

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Puriti in Japanese means beautiful and since they seem to have a maorified name lets look at that Riti means to read while the word Puriti does not exist Pu has multiple meanings such as "to blow gently" "firearm" or "particle" so could mean "Having read the particles we will now gentle blow smoke up your..." or you could look up Puri and switch the Te/Ti to the front. 

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5 minutes ago, Daley said:

I have seen product of Great Britain printed on Manuka in hospitals.

That is a slightly different scenario if it was a wound dressing or ointment. The bulk Manuka may well have been shipped to the UK where the product production and irradiation took place. 

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Overseas beeks would naturally be pushing their local media to dis our manuka honey in an effort to preserve their own product in that market, and no amount of testing, bowing, scraping and grovelling will change that. 

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