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Are you a member of APINZ?

Are you a member of APINZ  

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  1. 1. Are you a member of APINZ



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12 hours ago, Ali said:

@frazzledfozzle, I just gotta love your attitude! We certainly need to fight back.

 

Then make sure you vote

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I certainly will be @Dennis Crowley. That is if APINZ bother themselves to send me the means to effect this.

So far the ineptitude demonstrated brings this into serious doubt. 

The boasting by APINZ on this site earlier that they control over 50% of the vote (by membership hive numbers) will be put to the test.

Hearts & minds have been lost forever over the issues and how APINZ has so badly managed this business. Even down to the wrong proposed voting dates published to add to the confusion. The ineptitude is the dominant feature next to what appears to be a hidden agenda.

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I won't be be voting. As a three hive hobbyist I have no interest whatever in the outcome.

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18 hours ago, Alastair said:

No cuz it's got a use by date doesn't it?

 

I still haven't figured how this use by date you supposed to put on jars is meant to be calculated.

Havent they found honey in the pyramids  that still edible .

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Use by 'the zombie apocalypse' should work then

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3 hours ago, yesbut said:

As a three hive hobbyist I have no interest whatever in the outcome.

and are ineligible to vote:

"There is no levy payable by any producer with an annual production of less than 750 kg per annum." and "You are eligible to vote if you have 26 hives or more (estimated to produce 750 kgs)" - from the levy proposal pages.

 

All the talk about not representing the majority of registered beekeepers is somewhat of a red herring due to how commodity levies work. Most registered beekeepers are hobbyists who:

a) won't be subject to the levy if it comes in; and

b) won't be eligible to vote.

 

whether or not i'm in favour of the levy does not affect how annoyed i get by misrepresentation of what it is all about. I think it is communicated and articulated well here: https://apinz.org.nz/wp-content/uploads/2018/10/0876_ApiNZ_Commodity_Levy_web.pdf

I recommend taking a look for all those who are interested in the levy topic but are yet to read this document.

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1 hour ago, kaihoka said:

Havent they found honey in the pyramids  that still edible .

 

But tell it to Jacinda. ?

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52 minutes ago, Alastair said:

 

But tell it to Jacinda. ?

A lot of that , use by date, is rubbish .

A big push by food sellers to get us to throw stuff out and buy more .

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22 hours ago, Ali said:

@frazzledfozzle, I just gotta love your attitude! We certainly need to fight back.

I think we need to be very careful about what we fight over here.
You are right about refusing to to pay a levy on a crop that by any measure is valued below reasonable costs.

To take money from a beek at $4.00 a kg amounts to theft and it would be foolish for ApiNZ to pursue that course

However IMO we need to separate out the two issues, one being the levy and the other being future management of the industry.

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7 hours ago, Ali said:

I certainly will be @Dennis Crowley. That is if APINZ bother themselves to send me the means to effect this.

So far the ineptitude demonstrated brings this into serious doubt. 

The boasting by APINZ on this site earlier that they control over 50% of the vote (by membership hive numbers) will be put to the test.

Hearts & minds have been lost forever over the issues and how APINZ has so badly managed this business. Even down to the wrong proposed voting dates published to add to the confusion. The ineptitude is the dominant feature next to what appears to be a hidden agenda.

What wrong dates Ali, and voting papers out next week

Edited by Dennis Crowley
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3 hours ago, tommy dave said:

and are ineligible to vote:

"There is no levy payable by any producer with an annual production of less than 750 kg per annum." and "You are eligible to vote if you have 26 hives or more (estimated to produce 750 kgs)" - from the levy proposal pages.

 

All the talk about not representing the majority of registered beekeepers is somewhat of a red herring due to how commodity levies work. Most registered beekeepers are hobbyists who:

a) won't be subject to the levy if it comes in; and

b) won't be eligible to vote.

 

whether or not i'm in favour of the levy does not affect how annoyed i get by misrepresentation of what it is all about. I think it is communicated and articulated well here: https://apinz.org.nz/wp-content/uploads/2018/10/0876_ApiNZ_Commodity_Levy_web.pdf

I recommend taking a look for all those who are interested in the levy topic but are yet to read this document.

 

Quote

Science & research: 40%

Biosecurity: 20%
Advocacy: 10%
Leveraging 3rd party funding: 5%

Education & skills: 3%
Identifying NZ bee product benefits: 3%

Market access: 3%
Reserves: 6%
Administration: 10%

 

So looking at it you have Administration taking 10% of all levies while the closest things I can see that might be to do with developing markets for non Manuka honey is the market access 3% and Identifying NZ bee products benefits 3%.

Advocacy whatever that is is getting a big 10% 

Education and skills 3% what’s with that ? Who are you educating and what skills are you teaching ? I thought if you were commercial you had the skills and the know how ? 

No idea what leveraging 3rd party funding is but it must be more important that marketing 

To top if off you have Biosecurity and science taking a massive 60%!

 

well that’s going to go a long way to keeping non Manuka honey businesses afloat isn’t it .

give it two years and the levy will have to go up because of all the beekeepers gone bust.

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1 hour ago, frazzledfozzle said:

So looking at it you have Administration taking 10% of all levies while the closest things I can see that might be to do with developing markets for non Manuka honey is the market access 3% and Identifying NZ bee products benefits 3%.

Advocacy whatever that is is getting a big 10% 

Education and skills 3% what’s with that ? Who are you educating and what skills are you teaching ? I thought if you were commercial you had the skills and the know how ? 

No idea what leveraging 3rd party funding is but it must be more important that marketing 

To top if off you have Biosecurity and science taking a massive 60%!

 

well that’s going to go a long way to keeping non Manuka honey businesses afloat isn’t it .

give it two years and the levy will have to go up because of all the beekeepers gone bust.

See I’m with you @frazzledfozzle, incredibly sceptical.

 

I say no.

 

10% administration costs is one of the biggest yarns I’ve heard to date.

I would bet that there is an additional admin cost hiding in all the rest of those other pieces of pie too.

Because these pen pushing corporate types can’t do anything:

1) on the cheap

and

2) without having to write a report about it to justify their existence.

 

On 21/01/2019 at 8:00 PM, frazzledfozzle said:

it seems they are more interested in spending my hard earned money on things that in the past beekeepers already knew or did as part of their journey in beekeeping

 This is the biggest piece of the pie; 40% here.

Science and Research!

Probably mostly things that the BEEKEEPERS among us already know, basic common sense stuff ?‍♀️

Let’s throw a big chunk of other peoples money at this because it will look like we’re doing what the people want, and they’re more likely to say yes if we dress it up nice

 

Trying to make a puha look like a flower methinks.

 

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I  think their timing is really off.

 3 years ago when bee keeping was a booming  beeks may have supported the the proposed levies.

Now they are  just creating unnecessary infrastructure and beauracry for a shrinking industry .

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This levy should only be on manuka honey.  They were the major benefactors in the last round so the should pay the good will back and fund research into other honeys. 

 

All the money raised should go on market development.  We do not need to learn how to produce honey we need to learn how to sell it. 

 

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I think the old NBA would have had more chance of getting beeks to agree to pay a levy, APINZ has a very distinctly corporate look to it and the bulk of the small to medium commercials are already reeling from the boundary stacking, over-stocking and generally boardroom led developments of the corporate sector out in the apiaries and even the hobby beeks in many areas are hit by dump sites, this is not a sane way to encourage an industry to go. 

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well i haven't said much on here for a while, but love reading whats going on,

I'am with jamesec on alot of what he say's and i think the only way for alot of us smaller honey collectors to survive is to sell our own, market, package and to further process our honey.

we are are putting up a little honey shack in the back yard and will be selling honey six different sorts, hand creams etc, soaps, honey powder, tablets,

Also we currently sell at three different markets as well as online sales and return buyers,

i for one know how i will be voting after spending all my spare time and then some on all things bee related, spending endless hours in the stinking hot sun stuck in a bee suit with salty sweet running into my eyes,

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Sounds good Kevin, maybe that niche type stuff with a loyal customer base will work!

 

I was going to jar up my honey this season and start a brand, then I realised everyone else is doing the same thing, it's going to be competitive out there, so I'm selling mine in bulk to a buyer that is acting in good conscience.

 

However i still think that small niche market beekeepers adding soaps, face creams, and what not, to their product range, may do OK.

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1 hour ago, Alastair said:

Sounds good Kevin, maybe that niche type stuff with a loyal customer base will work!

 

I was going to jar up my honey this season and start a brand, then I realised everyone else is doing the same thing, it's going to be competitive out there, so I'm selling mine in bulk to a buyer that is acting in good conscience.

 

However i still think that small niche market beekeepers adding soaps, face creams, and what not, to their product range, may do OK.

Do you think if manuka had never happened  and things were now like they were 10yrs ago , with varroa ,  beeks could make a decent living  in the current modern world .

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Right now we are in a glut situation, the bust after the boom. So the price of nucs and hives is rapidly heading down towards the cost of making them, and some honey is being sold for below cost. This would probably not be happening if we were not coming off a boom.

 

But pre manuka, there was no golden age. Beekeeping was a hard way to earn a living. Likely outcome next few years it will return to that although now people realise what can be accomplished by clever marketing, once the shake out is over, even non manuka producers may be do a little better than before the manuka boom.

Edited by Alastair
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We seem to be faced with same old pattern of business as has happened with other boom & bust enterprises. Deer, Kiwi Fruit, Goats etc, etc. Us Kiwis have made a fine habit of it really and it was predictable but vastly complicated by the Manuka side. 

There are quite a few different forces at play, buyers/packers working to a new model which will ensure their profit take, the big players essentially rooting out smaller players or attempting too, the greedy and the dumb not helping, a political and financial background game by APINZ to take power & money without an honest upfront business proposal being presented to the ones who may be made to contribute to them.

APINZ will be in a position to hand out very large amounts of our money to their preferred 'researchers'. 

It is too obviously a case of them having "a plan" but not stating it publicly where the monies will go if they have their way other than vagaries. There will be some happy beneficiaries of our money waiting quietly with open hands.

It is the way of NZ business that most decisions are discussed outside of the 'office' or boardroom and taken there only for ratification and appearances sake. 

The levy proposal as presented is simply a sham in regard a detailed business plan for the "investors" and as such is despicable. It is simply "we will take your money but give no contractual guarantee of any return or even to whom we will give it".

On top of that it gives APINZ the power to ruin the family business beekeeper by way of quota (for hives) or other forms of restriction/control with a likeness to the fishing industry. 

Beware folks.

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Edited by yesbut

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5 hours ago, Alastair said:

So the price of nucs and hives is rapidly heading down towards the cost of making them, and some honey is being sold for below cost.

What i find interesting is the price of mated queeens and queen cells has stayed the same or gone up.  So I guess that is one of the best places to make money now. 

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A large supplier here has dropped prices of cells and of queens. However hives & nucs have been purchased mostly for making increase, whereas queens are driven by people wanting to apply good management to their hives, so slightly different price drivers. Obviously buying new hives will grind to a halt, before properly maintaining already existing hives does. All the same, as most beekeepers have less money to spend, supply and demand will apply to the price of queens also.

 

Prior to the manuka boom it was often said a queen was worth 10 lb's of honey, and it did tend to sit around that level.

Edited by Alastair
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1 minute ago, Alastair said:

 queens are driven by people wanting to apply good management to their hives, 

 

 

This is true in some cases however we sell thousands of queens all around the country for use making splits, pretty tight schedule as the splits are often made in advance of the courier delivery, if they are short on numbers (poor caging weather) or late can cause issues. 

Hiveware prices should also start to drop back I’d say now that things have cooled off. 

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21 minutes ago, Stoney said:

Hiveware prices should also start to drop back I’d say now that things have cooled off.

I do not think so i would alleged that there is price fixing going on by the 3 main supply companies.  If the commerce commission investigated I say there would be some hefty fines given out. 

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