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Are you a member of APINZ?

Are you a member of APINZ  

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  1. 1. Are you a member of APINZ



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10 minutes ago, Dennis Crowley said:

 

Yes under the commodity levy act, voting on the spend of levy funds is weighted, deciding on where to spend those funds is based on everyone having a vote at AGM or other form of communication ,and the board is then charged to see that the process happens within the timelines/financial value etc.

shame it wasn't stated clearly in the documents:

"hey, if you're not one of the big four or five players in the industry then you'll effectively zero say in how the levy is spent as those decisions are made on weighted voting dependent on how much honey you produce"

 

it that's the case there would, technically, be nothing stopping the levy being used to lobby for nobody being able to sell honey unless they controlled over 10,000 hives.

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The thing is ..... I just got an email from NZ Beekeepers inc imploring me to vote NO , and stating  that the whole process is very undemocratic to have one autocratic body ruling us. But hang on, role back the clock twenty years and we had the NBA ruling us .... with branch meetings , certainly in Canterbury, being a slanging match between two or three family bee   empires arguing the rules to suit their agenda's.

 

 

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46 minutes ago, jamesc said:

The thing is ..... I just got an email from NZ Beekeepers inc imploring me to vote NO , and stating  that the whole process is very undemocratic to have one autocratic body ruling us. But hang on, role back the clock twenty years and we had the NBA ruling us .... with branch meetings , certainly in Canterbury, being a slanging match between two or three family bee   empires arguing the rules to suit their agenda's.

 

 

 

The NBA may have been the only organisation back then, but they had zero control or influence over what you did with your honey. You had the freedom to ship anywhere in the world and there was only about two pieces of paper to fill in.

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8 hours ago, Bushy said:

 

The NBA may have been the only organisation back then, but they had zero control or influence over what you did with your honey. You had the freedom to ship anywhere in the world and there was only about two pieces of paper to fill in.

Not a lots changed then ..?

Edited by jamesc

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8 minutes ago, jamesc said:

Not a lots changed then ..?

Until you vote yes for the latest APINZ levy proposal and the power, money and control is handed to the few largest honey producers ( who are also packers/marketers mostly).

Eyes open everyone.

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I really don’t see the issue here with peoples distrust of the big boys. Just remember that when the smelly stuff hits the fan and you need to sell hives... it will only be the big boys who have the money to come to your rescue.

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13 minutes ago, jamesc said:

I really don’t see the issue here with peoples distrust of the big boys. Just remember that when the smelly stuff hits the fan and you need to sell hives... it will only be the big boys who have the money to come to your rescue.

So you believe the 'big boys' would rescue the smaller boys/girls??? 

Only if it gave them real advantage otherwise that belongs firmly in some other fantasy world I reckon.

Current rescue type operations include massive over stocking (in some areas) and dump sites robbing local resources.

No thanks mate you can keep the 'rescue' bit.

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7 hours ago, jamesc said:

I really don’t see the issue here with peoples distrust of the big boys. Just remember that when the smelly stuff hits the fan and you need to sell hives... it will only be the big boys who have the money to come to your rescue.

 

LOL, didn't you romp up north and join hands with the big boys?  Not too many were happy with your decision. 

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Uh .... they boight us out!

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you had a rotten time with them and local beeks.  And you still see nothing wrong.  Would you do it all again?  

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37 minutes ago, Gino de Graaf said:

you had a rotten time with them and local beeks.  And you still see nothing wrong.  Would you do it all again?  

For sure.... but I’d have my lawyer riding shotgun

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8 hours ago, jamesc said:

I really don’t see the issue here with peoples distrust of the big boys. Just remember that when the smelly stuff hits the fan and you need to sell hives... it will only be the big boys who have the money to come to your rescue.

 

When the day of reackoning comes and you have something the big guys want, then yes you will do all right, otherwise they will let you fall over and pick up cheap assets after the event.

 

Now that's normal business reality with or without corporate involvement. The major wine companies up until 10 years ago got most of the grapes from private small growers. They then got sick of paying market rates for grapes so started buying little guys out, not at top dollar, but during the 2008-2010 wine glut (which was of their own making) when financial stress forced sales.

 

Almost all Marlborough grapes are now foreign owned, through large multinational corporates, and we import foreign labour to do the work because wages and conditions too rubbish for kiwis.

 

I don't know if this will happen in NZ beekeeping or not, but I do know there is a much greater chance of it happening under a ApiNZ controlling position.

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19 hours ago, Dennis Crowley said:

 

Yes under the commodity levy act, voting on the spend of levy funds is weighted, deciding on where to spend those funds is based on everyone having a vote at AGM or other form of communication ,and the board is then charged to see that the process happens within the timelines/financial value etc.

 

I got sick of the cricket last night so decided to down load the commodity levy legislation to read in an attempt to make all this discussion better and find a positive way forward, but instead I am now really confused and need clarification.

 

The legislation I was reading was revised in 2016 so there is a chance of a latter amendment.

 

There is no mention of voting on how levy money is spent (weighted or otherwise) in the commodity levy act.

 

Section six is the area where levy money is written and states an  organisations levy proposal must contain:

i) how organisation is to spend the levy.

ii) a means by which the organisation is to consult the persons primarily responsible for paying it, as to how the organisation is to spend it.

 

The Act leaves it up to the organisation to decide how levy payers will be involved in financial decisions, and in the ApiNZ rules attached to our voting papers, all we get to do is "DISCUSS" spending at a AGM or special meeting, not vote.

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3 minutes ago, Bushy said:

 

I got sick of the cricket last night so decided to down load the commodity levy legislation to read in an attempt to make all this discussion better and find a positive way forward, but instead I am now really confused and need clarification.

 

The legislation I was reading was revised in 2016 so there is a chance of a latter amendment.

 

There is no mention of voting on how levy money is spent (weighted or otherwise) in the commodity levy act.

 

Section six is the area where levy money is written and states an  organisations levy proposal must contain:

i) how organisation is to spend the levy.

ii) a means by which the organisation is to consult the persons primarily responsible for paying it, as to how the organisation is to spend it.

 

The Act leaves it up to the organisation to decide how levy payers will be involved in financial decisions, and in the ApiNZ rules attached to our voting papers, all we get to do is "DISCUSS" spending at a AGM or special meeting, not vote.

If the few  companies with the most hives have decided how they want the money spent (and I believe this will usually be done before the ‘discussion meeting’ ) no amount of voting by the smaller players with change anything.

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Sheez ..... wot hapened in the cricket?

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5 minutes ago, jamesc said:

Sheez ..... wot hapened in the cricket?

 

Between the cricket and watching Breakers loose basketball in overtime, commodity levy reading was almost fun.

Geeze I need to get out more

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1 hour ago, Bushy said:

Now that's normal business reality with or without corporate involvement. The major wine companies up until 10 years ago got most of the grapes from private small growers. They then got sick of paying market rates for grapes so started buying little guys out, not at top dollar, but during the 2008-2010 wine glut (which was of their own making) when financial stress forced sales.

 

Almost all Marlborough grapes are now foreign owned, through large multinational corporates, and we import foreign labour to do the work because wages and conditions too rubbish for kiwis.

 

I don't know if this will happen in NZ beekeeping or not, but I do know there is a much greater chance of it happening under a ApiNZ controlling position.

Now let me think a moment..........why does this appear to have similarity with the current honey/beekeeping business in NZ?

Just in the early stages perhaps? 

Oh, @ApiNZ Levy Proposal , looking forward to your response regarding levy payers voting on the use of levy money.................? Beginning to feel quite mislead here............

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The silence from those who know is deafening.................................

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sO JC in relation to the lawyer post is that how you beekeep.

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7 hours ago, nikki watts said:

If the few  companies with the most hives have decided how they want the money spent (and I believe this will usually be done before the ‘discussion meeting’ ) no amount of voting by the smaller players with change anything.

what i still do not get , if the only money in honey is in manuka and recently the crops have not been great, what long term interest would corporates have in bee keeping.

they are hardly going to stay involved because they love job.

so if they drive all the small operations out and then get bored and move on , what shape will the industry be in then.

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1 hour ago, Bighands said:

sO JC in relation to the lawyer post is that how you beekeep.

You'd be a fool not to have a tame lawyer when entering into a business agreement worth several million dollars that has the potential  to set you up for a life of leisure.?

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Despite my previous stirring I'm still open minded about this....even though the levy is being struck on a flawed basis (multi/manuka being the same).......BUT

 

Why do we have a situation where your vote count equates to the number of hives you have?  How did that decision get arrived at?  And why is it that that works to the advantage of the big few?

 

Our most important form of voting in NZ would have to be for Parliament, and that is one person one vote.  If you've got an IQ 50 points higher than mine (quite likely I'd venture to say), or $10m in the bank, none of that matters, one person, one vote.  

 

Under this approach the larger operators take control.  Why is it that one large operator with say 10,000 hives is as important or has the same say as ten operator's with 1,000 hives each?

That's actually not right.....IMO.

 

 

 

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Or me if I decide to run with 27 hives ! ?

25 minutes ago, CraBee said:

Under this approach the larger operators take control.  Why is it that one large operator with say 10,000 hives is as important or has the same say as ten operator's with 1,000 hives each?

That's actually not right.....IMO.

 

 

Edited by yesbut

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8 hours ago, Bushy said:

 

I got sick of the cricket last night so decided to down load the commodity levy legislation to read in an attempt to make all this discussion better and find a positive way forward, but instead I am now really confused and need clarification.

 

The legislation I was reading was revised in 2016 so there is a chance of a latter amendment.

 

There is no mention of voting on how levy money is spent (weighted or otherwise) in the commodity levy act.

 

Section six is the area where levy money is written and states an  organisations levy proposal must contain:

i) how organisation is to spend the levy.

ii) a means by which the organisation is to consult the persons primarily responsible for paying it, as to how the organisation is to spend it.

 

The Act leaves it up to the organisation to decide how levy payers will be involved in financial decisions, and in the ApiNZ rules attached to our voting papers, all we get to do is "DISCUSS" spending at a AGM or special meeting, not vote.

Something you may not have considered Bushy,

This website is very powerful and Im in a position to know just how powerful it is.
It is probably more powerful than ApiNZ .
If things dont go well and people start getting unjustifiably screwed then I pity the culprits.

This site will form part of the balance of power

 

Edited by Philbee
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1 hour ago, Philbee said:

Something you may not have considered Bushy,

This website is very powerful and Im in a position to know just how powerful it is.
It is probably more powerful than ApiNZ .
If things dont go well and people start getting unjustifiably screwed then I pity the culprits.

This site will form part of the balance of power

 

What on earth?? Talk about cloaks and daggers... 

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