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Daley

Are you a member of APINZ?

Are you a member of APINZ  

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  1. 1. Are you a member of APINZ



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4 hours ago, Ali said:

Oops double post now with the edit but perhaps it is worth saying twice.

Yeah-nah, lacking some accuracy in the first post which the second one still missed.

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On 30/01/2019 at 10:08 AM, frazzledfozzle said:

The labs wouldn’t do it unless they were making a good profit.

 

I see parallels with ‘some real-estate corflute folded with some wood frames and bees in a box - and you want $400 for that? ‘ ?

 

and no, we’re not doing the export honey testing work on million dollar kit

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If we have a yes vote a lot of people including me are going to want a lot more debate on issues.How is this going to happen under Apinz's current structure?

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8 minutes ago, john berry said:

If we have a yes vote a lot of people including me are going to want a lot more debate

The mind boggles. 

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1 hour ago, Bees said:

So really what options are there - vote yes for levy. Or vote no.       Is there any other option?     Not voting is not an option.     

If one voted NO to ApiNZ - then what happens - ApiNZ still will be in control and we workers are going nowhere.?     - I am a small fry in the commercial world and I personally lean towards NZ Beekeepers Inc. but what would they be able to do differently regarding  Research?        

If there ain’t no money in the pot then no one can do anything  - I do understand that.      

 

And I can absolutely see the need to get our act together and get our own research.   It’s hard to know who to trust because everyone seems to have their own agenda. 

 

This is an email I received from New Zealand Beekeeping Inc.

 

I thought it was spot on, and I would encourage people to join the organisation which best represents them and their interests, because we need to stand up and be counted or we are going to be steam rolled by corporates.

 

The email (which is hopefully ok for me to share ?‍♀️) ?
 
NZ Beekeeping President wrote earlier in the week-  
Information in the attached link is copied below which Members received earlier. 

Why you should vote AGAINST the Apiculture NZ Levy proposal
 
Apiculture NZ is holding a postal referendum in February on a proposal for a compulsory Commodity Levy on Honey.  The Levy would be a tax paid on honey production, with the funds going to Apiculture NZ. The referendum is required by law if a levy is to be imposed.  Over half the prospective levy payers who vote need to vote ‘yes’ for the proposal to succeed (and the “YES” votes represent more than half of the total registered beehives of those who voted).

NZ Beekeeping Inc represents mainly small and mid-size, usually family beekeeping businesses. 

We will be voting NO on the proposal, and we urge you to do the same.

The proposed Levy would hurt struggling beekeepers financially, and yet not be used effectively to solve the industry’s growing problems – like falling prices, biosecurity risks (especially American Foulbrood and Small Hive Beetle), and over stocking, for example.

Apiculture NZ is the wrong organisation to manage industry funds – it lacks beekeeper focus, is a poor communicator on beekeeping matters, is too dominated by larger corporate players, too focused on manuka honey, and has shown itself unwilling to really confront MPI’s poor record as a regulator.  Management of the AFB programme – using levy funds - has been poor – and acknowledged as such, and yet the ‘solution’ was to try to reward poor performance with more money.  We see no signs that these weaknesses are being tackled.  Supporting the Commodity levy proposal would send good money after bad.

But, whatever you think, it’s important to VOTE: a levy would be with us for many years – and not voting weakens the collective voice of ordinary, hardworking beekeepers.  We all deserve to be heard, and so we need to make sure we all vote.
The industry’s problems are real.  Prices are falling, AFB is rising, there are other biosecurity risks facing us all, MPI seems hopelessly adrift.  There are other issues too.  We do need shared solutions.

So, defeating the Apiculture NZ proposal is just the start.  NZ Beekeeping would work across the industry to really identify problems and genuinely agree on:

        a)  the issues facing the industry
        b) the priority of these issues (what’s most important and urgent), and
        c) the best way to really tackle the priority problems to benefit all beekeepers.

Whatever we do needs to have beekeepers and good beekeeping at its heart.
  • Get involved – Vote!  And join an organisation, and say what you think
  • Vote NO to the Apiculture NZ Commodity Levy idea
  • Help beekeeper - led organisations like NZ Beekeeping work out how to really tackle the problems facing us, our bees and our businesses.  
JANE LORIMER
PRESIDENT


NEW ZEALAND BEEKEEPING INC |Einfo@nzbeekeeping.co.nz I January 2019
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Thanks yes I got that @Daley  .    But how can NZ Beekeeping Inc  takeover from ApiNZ.   How would that work?   What are the logistics?  Does voting No  to the levy remove ApiNZ?   I figure not - so if the NO vote was successful - how does the Industry  move on?

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9 minutes ago, Bees said:

Thanks yes I got that @Daley  .    But how can NZ Beekeeping Inc  takeover from ApiNZ.   How would that work?   What are the logistics?  Does voting No  to the levy remove ApiNZ?   I figure not - so if the NO vote was successful - how does the Industry  move on?

Supposedly the one with the most members will end up with a decent voice, I think people are ready for change, obviously it’s not going to be unanimous but I certainly don’t want the corporates taking charge of the industry so I’m willing to get behind the opposition.

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56 minutes ago, Dennis Crowley said:

Bees you are right a non vote is not an option,

If the vote is no- things stay as they are with a dwindling effect, die hards will still belong to whatever group they want and as the older and been in the game longer ones slowly move on the lack of new and young beeks that have an interest in running an organization fades as well. 

Vote yes we capture all those that want to freeride and then encourage people who you want to run the organization who have the interest in sitting in places around the table to stand for election and then ride their arse hard to perform, and be an active participant in ideas/help/suggestions etc or something like that.

Dennis I admire the fact you are willing to stand up and voice your/ApiNZ opinion, but this comment clearly highlights you regard all other bee groups as obsolete and that your group (ApiNZ ) is the only way forward. Clearly in this comment the funding is way way more than just research; it is all about ApiNZ ONLY.

 

So do not belittle @Ali when her comments express her concern about vote is way more than a research vote.

 

My solution is here:

Compolsory research levy of 5cents kg (4cent research/1cent for admin) paid into independant trust that is contestible by any organisation for NZ bee/honey research. This will capture anybody who has little interest in industry happenings or politics.

 

The remaining 5cents can be paid towards any organisation (NZ Beekeepeing, ApiNZ etc) at the complete discretion of each individual. Each group will have common targets of interest, and each group will have specialist interests, but every beekeeper will have their choice.

Apinz had their chance for total unity 3 years ago and dropped the ball. This is now a unifying type option that would get a research levy up and running but not having ApiNZ dictating to me how I will exist, or at worst paying my new competitors how to operate against me.

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Good question Bees.

Api NZ is the lead negotiator wth MPI for the proposed Biosecurity GIA for the Bee Industry. 

A % of the levy is also earmarked for managing Biosecurity - "Taking more control in how we manage and control biosecurity threats and incursions."

Biosecurity incursions are recognised as the largest threat to our industry.

Note this is not an Biosecurity GIA levy which would be levied against all beekeepers to pay the industry share of the fight against a major biosecurity incursion.

 

You must remember it was the Minister for Primary Industries who asked the NBA and BIG - the two bodies representing the industry to sort out their differences

and get together if they were to partcipate in a Biosecurity GIA - Wanganui Conference. That is how we got Apiculture NZ with majority support of the beekeepers who voted.

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1 hour ago, JohnF said:

 

I see parallels with ‘some real-estate corflute folded with some wood frames and bees in a box - and you want $400 for that? ‘ ?

 

and no, we’re not doing the export honey testing work on million dollar kit

 

I don’t see any parallels

$400 for a Nuc ... not a price I ever achieved .

that $400 Nuc can bring in a 20kg crop of Manuka honey within 6 months then the beekeeper can split it and now has money in the bank and 2 hives not one.

 

it doesn’t matter to me how much the lab equipment cost. If the labs weren’t making a good profit on the avalanche of testing beekeepers are now required to do they wouldn’t do it end of story. 

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1 hour ago, Don Mac said:

Good question Bees.

Api NZ is the lead negotiator wth MPI for the proposed Biosecurity GIA for the Bee Industry. 

A % of the levy is also earmarked for managing Biosecurity - "Taking more control in how we manage and control biosecurity threats and incursions."

Biosecurity incursions are recognised as the largest threat to our industry.

Note this is not an Biosecurity GIA levy which would be levied against all beekeepers to pay the industry share of the fight against a major biosecurity incursion.

 

You must remember it was the Minister for Primary Industries who asked the NBA and BIG - the two bodies representing the industry to sort out their differences

and get together if they were to partcipate in a Biosecurity GIA - Wanganui Conference. That is how we got Apiculture NZ with majority support of the beekeepers who voted.

 

Ahhh and just when that had dropped from the radar.

The GIA another levy will be paid by the beekeeper to the office Wally’s to do the job they are already funded to do just more cream for them to lick off the top.

After seeing first hand the Mickey Mouse operation that was in charge of the varroa incursion in the top of the South I can only laugh at the thought of any GIA being of any benefit to any of us.

levy for this levy for that test for this test for that, tax here tax there , bloody hell it must be great to just poke your hand into someone’s pocket and take what you like. 

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1 hour ago, Don Mac said:

A % of the levy is also earmarked for managing Biosecurity - "Taking more control in how we manage and control biosecurity threats and incursions."

Biosecurity incursions are recognised as the largest threat to our industry.

Note this is not an Biosecurity GIA levy which would be levied against all beekeepers to pay the industry share of the fight against a major biosecurity incursion.

 

So in effect we are paying twice

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Apinz seems to fully endorse the GIA and does not encourage dissension on this matter. I am absolutely opposed to GIA and regard it as government-sponsored blackmail.

We absolutely need to work with the government but we don't need to be blackmailed into doing it. If anybody should pay for bio security incursions it should be those that create the risk not those that suffer from them.

If we get a levy I will pay it but if we get GIA I will never pay a cent.

Apinz support of GIA is probably the straw that will cause me to vote no. I have discussed my opposition privately with several Apinz board members and we have had good debate but they just don't seem to be willing to allow opposing voices to be voiced  in open forum (i.e. at conference).

 

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9 hours ago, john berry said:

Apinz seems to fully endorse the GIA and does not encourage dissension on this matter. I am absolutely opposed to GIA and regard it as government-sponsored blackmail.

We absolutely need to work with the government but we don't need to be blackmailed into doing it. If anybody should pay for bio security incursions it should be those that create the risk not those that suffer from them.

If we get a levy I will pay it but if we get GIA I will never pay a cent.

Apinz support of GIA is probably the straw that will cause me to vote no. I have discussed my opposition privately with several Apinz board members and we have had good debate but they just don't seem to be willing to allow opposing voices to be voiced  in open forum (i.e. at conference).

 

John

I did not say that Api NZ supports the GIA.

I said "Api NZ is the lead negotiator wth MPI for the proposed Biosecurity GIA for the Bee Industry."

I am not aware of what the GIA will look like or what it states.

Beekeepers can only watch this space at present.

 

 

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On 30/01/2019 at 4:20 PM, Bees said:

with all this expensive research equipment out there - and the work Peter Molan etc have done on Manuka -  does this  mean that researching other honeys will be faster/easier to do?  Because of the experience already built up and newer technology out there?

 

I am curious to know how long it would take to research one type of honey - say  for example Honey Dew.    Would it take a year or longer for researchers to tell us what’s  so special about it?     And is there anyway a cost could be applied to the research?      

 

What you're suggesting is totally within the realms of possibility, and exactly the sort of research that could be funded by a commodity levy. We've gained a lot of experience from the UMFHA and MPI science programs, and this experience can definitely be leveraged in research on other floral types. It would still be in the order of years to bring some robust science to the table though, because you have to consider interseasonal variation and such.

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12 hours ago, frazzledfozzle said:

 

I don’t see any parallels

$400 for a Nuc ... not a price I ever achieved .

that $400 Nuc can bring in a 20kg crop of Manuka honey within 6 months then the beekeeper can split it and now has money in the bank and 2 hives not one.

 

it doesn’t matter to me how much the lab equipment cost. If the labs weren’t making a good profit on the avalanche of testing beekeepers are now required to do they wouldn’t do it end of story. 

 

Stop it - you're just teasing me for parallels frazz

That $180 test on a drum is the difference between say $4,500 for  multi-floral and twice that for mono-floral?

I don't know how much a 3-in-1 test or 4-in-1 test is but let's say $80 . . .which might mean another $3000 per drum if a UMF 10 over a UMF 5 ?

(working on a beekeeper's figures - individual prices may vary. Author is not responsible for any prices not realised as a result of any testing)

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12 hours ago, frazzledfozzle said:

levy for this levy for that test for this test for that, tax here tax there , bloody hell it must be great to just poke your hand into someone’s pocket and take what you like. 

 

Just for you frazz - check out this guy. He is still performing magic and apparently is the world's oldest professional magician at about 98 yrs

 

 

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Impressive !

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1 hour ago, JohnF said:

 

Just for you frazz - check out this guy. He is still performing magic and apparently is the world's oldest professional magician at about 98 yrs

 

 

They might use him as a levy collector

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Well I'm over the back and forth. It's a yes vote from me ..... along the lines of when I don't really know what's gonna happen , whether the truck will make it through the bog hole, or the home made brass sleeve in the extractor will last the season because I can't afford to buy one of Mr Bouteljie's fancy machines, much as I would like to, my line of thought is usually ...... Let's give it a go and see what happens. Generally things work out and if it all ends in a pool of crud  ..... we'll try a different tack

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4 hours ago, JohnF said:

 

Stop it - you're just teasing me for parallels frazz

That $180 test on a drum is the difference between say $4,500 for  multi-floral and twice that for mono-floral?

I don't know how much a 3-in-1 test or 4-in-1 test is but let's say $80 . . .which might mean another $3000 per drum if a UMF 10 over a UMF 5 ?

(working on a beekeeper's figures - individual prices may vary. Author is not responsible for any prices not realised as a result of any testing)

 

Difference is Manuka testing is smoke and mirrors .

its a test we never used to have to do and it’s a test that will change I’m sure .

What Manuka is today may not be what Manuka is tomorrow.

Its a test to go along with all the other tests, levies, fees and taxes 

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34 minutes ago, frazzledfozzle said:

Its a test to go along with all the other tests, levies, fees and taxes 

What ! You don't pay rates ?

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44 minutes ago, frazzledfozzle said:

 

Difference is Manuka testing is smoke and mirrors .

 

 

Not too dissimilar to Manuka *honey* then, unfortunately - at least until recently with a standard to work to

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If the vote is a no (which I doubt at this time), given the hive numbers of the lead players already allied to APINZ, then it would be the clearest message possible to APINZ to up there game, communication, style, purpose and to relate in a better way to the grass roots beeks.

It's a case of APINZ not being able so far to raise their membership in beek numbers and electing to take the desparate (and I think coercive) path of seeking compulsion of nearly all.

It's a poor way to manage the situation in my opinion and the almost total obscuring of the matter behind the 'research' ploy is sad to say the least and says little positive for the people of APINZ

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7 hours ago, Ali said:

It's a poor way to manage the situation in my opinion and the almost total obscuring of the matter behind the 'research' ploy is sad to say the least and says little positive for the people of APINZ

 

By 'people of ApiNZ' do you mean the paid employees? The board members like @Dennis Crowley ? Volunteer group members on the @ApiNZ Science & Research group like myself?

Or all of the above? In which case, should I be offended? Hmm . . .
 

I'm not sure what you mean by 'research ploy'. The levy proposal has stated from the outset a suggested spend of 40% of levy funds on R&D. Do you feel this is a ploy since a number of people are now supporting the concept of research?

@Ali if you knew the work and research funds begging by people like Barry Foster (who I can promise has been doing this a lot longer than most) for a few thousand dollars - on a 300 millions dollar industry - then perhaps you'd choose your words more carefully than 'ploy'

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