Jump to content
ApiNZ Levy Proposal

ApiNZ Commodity Levy Proposal

Recommended Posts

Looks like we may have to join together to get lawyers involved to fight against this at court if not listened to. I wouldn’t mind contributing to that if needed. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The best way to show your discontent with this levy proposal is to swamp the Honorable Damien OÇonnor's office with emails opposing the levy in its current form .

 

Maybe even suggesting that any beekeeper levy should be managed independently of Apinz

 

Whoever it is that manages any future beekeeper/ honey  levy should be elected by all those who would have to pay the levy,  ONE ENTITY---- ONE VOTE.

 

 

  • Agree 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
20 minutes ago, olbe said:

The best way to show your discontent with this levy proposal is to swamp the Honorable Damien OÇonnor's office with emails opposing the levy in its current form .

 

Maybe even suggesting that any beekeeper levy should be managed independently of Apinz

 

Whoever it is that manages any future beekeeper/ honey  levy should be elected by all those who would have to pay the levy,  ONE ENTITY---- ONE VOTE.

 

 

Thing is, what would this proposed independent entity do with the levy?
How much would the levy be?

Who has the infrastructure in place to manage these proposed funds?

Who has the infrastructure in place to utilize these proposed funds

Who has the people?

Who has the experience and track record?
 

Edited by Philbee
  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

How much actual money are all these levys going to bring in to the organisation that collects them .

A rough total .

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 hours ago, frazzledfozzle said:

I’m actually very angry that 60% of our levy will go into running an organisation I don’t want to join. 

How is that even legal to take a commodity levy and use 60% of it to finance an organisation that has , in the past, been financed by subscriptions. 

 

The commodity levy has been sold to us as a levy that will go towards research marketing etc not to prop up an organisation that has hardly any members. 

 

They will I’ll become the industry voice by default not by any kind of democratic process. 

And to say that if we don’t want to be members we won’t have a say on how the levy we have to pay is spent can’t be right surely?

 

so what of those beekeepers that don’t have to pay a levy but are members of ApiNZ do they get a say ?

or those that dint  have to pay a levy and want to join ApiNZ do they pay a membership ?

 

Im pretty peed off I gotta say.

Frazz 60% is not going to fund the admin, 10% is the amount, please read the details on the website.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

@Dennis Crowley would you be as good as to answer the questions of APINZ registered beekeepers numbers and also whether APINZ counts club membership as 1 member or counts the individual members as belonging?

There is a lot at stake here as you well know.

If you are unable to answer these questions would you please offer an explanation as to why this is?

Are you and others effectively muzzled by APINZ or is it your personal choice?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
46 minutes ago, Ali said:

@Dennis Crowley would you be as good as to answer the questions of APINZ registered beekeepers numbers and also whether APINZ counts club membership as 1 member or counts the individual members as belonging?

There is a lot at stake here as you well know.

If you are unable to answer these questions would you please offer an explanation as to why this is?

Are you and others effectively muzzled by APINZ or is it your personal choice?

No one is muzzled, the latest numbers are close to 900 members and rising, clubs are classed as 1 member, individuals in clubs not counted unless they have their own membership. Nothing underhanded going on here.

Edited by Dennis Crowley
  • Like 1
  • Thanks 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, olbe said:

The best way to show your discontent with this levy proposal is to swamp the Honorable Damien OÇonnor's office with emails opposing the levy in its current form .

 

Maybe even suggesting that any beekeeper levy should be managed independently of Apinz

 

Whoever it is that manages any future beekeeper/ honey  levy should be elected by all those who would have to pay the levy,  ONE ENTITY---- ONE VOTE.

 

 

Thats exactly what APINZ has done. Beekeepers got elected and they are on the board,and they will have the say about where the levy will be spent as is expected under the legislation. In fact the intention is to add 1 more beekeeper and deduct 1 packer board member so the commercial beekeepers have majority seats along with 1 hobbyist board member. 

glad to see you agree with us, see you at the meetings. One entity-one vote APINZ. With the levy being in place most beekeepers will take more of an interest in the industry and then we can get good mix of young and experienced people wanting to be on the board and take the industry further.

Edited by Dennis Crowley
  • Thanks 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 hours ago, Dennis Crowley said:

No one is muzzled, the latest numbers are close to 900 members and rising, clubs are classed as 1 member, individuals in clubs not counted unless they have their own membership. Nothing underhanded going on here.

@Dennis Crowley, many thanks for your reply. It is easy to see why you have the respect of so many.

  • Agree 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
9 hours ago, Dennis Crowley said:

Frazz 60% is not going to fund the admin, 10% is the amount, please read the details on the website.

These numbers dont mean a lot unless they are accompanied by a definition of terms

Admin could mean just the running of an office

  • Agree 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
8 hours ago, Dennis Crowley said:

No one is muzzled, the latest numbers are close to 900 members and rising, clubs are classed as 1 member, individuals in clubs not counted unless they have their own membership. Nothing underhanded going on here.

 

@Dennis Crowley  Thanks for that.  Finally someone has answered the question.

Now, one more question please.  How many hives do those 900 members represent.

 

2 hours ago, Ali said:

@Dennis Crowley, many thanks for your reply. It is easy to see why you have the respect of so many.

 

I also endorse @Ali. This simple answer has given you enormous credibility and trust.  Thanks

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Does 900 represent the total membership - including the hangers on also, or is 900 purely the beekeeper membership please @Dennis Crowley?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
8 hours ago, Dennis Crowley said:

No one is muzzled, the latest numbers are close to 900 members and rising, clubs are classed as 1 member, individuals in clubs not counted unless they have their own membership. Nothing underhanded going on here.

Thanks Dennis, pretty much as expected.  So roughly 10 -12% of registered beekeepers??   It’s a pity the answer didn’t come much earlier and prevent all the ill feeling, accusations and speculation.  

  • Agree 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
8 hours ago, Dennis Crowley said:

Thats exactly what APINZ has done. Beekeepers got elected and they are on the board,and they will have the say about where the levy will be spent as is expected under the legislation. In fact the intention is to add 1 more beekeeper and deduct 1 packer board member so the commercial beekeepers have majority seats along with 1 hobbyist board member. 

glad to see you agree with us, see you at the meetings. One entity-one vote APINZ. With the levy being in place most beekeepers will take more of an interest in the industry and then we can get good mix of young and experienced people wanting to be on the board and take the industry further.

 

Thanks for putting some of the miscommunication to rights Dennis.

 

While not wanting to belittle any of the hard working people in APINZ who have had the decency to put their heads up above the parapet for what they consider is for the good of the industry I make the following points / queries for your comment:

 

  1. Have APINZ misread things?
  2. Have they pursued their aspirations for the Industry to early in the piece in that they've missed the boat in engaging the grass roots commercial sector in their vision prior to setting out on the Levy journey
  3. Would it not be better to actively engage with the commercial sector (on a one on one basis if need be) to sell them the APINZ vision as well as assimilating the engaged individuals ideas and concerns into the overall picture where appropriate.
  4. APINZ are the stand out organisation in the Industry but have failed miserably in winning the hearts and minds of the commercial sector.
  5. I note their will be more Commercial board representation should the levy idea run at some time in the future and while seeing the rational here wonder at the current Commercial representation which gives a obviously talented person such as Kate Kimber a seat as a Commercial representative with little or no beekeeping experience (either in the field or the industry): I see no problem with her being on the board of any Industry good entity, however I suggest on a Marketing seat not as a Commercial Beekeeping representative
  6. The vast majority of the commercial sector are watching these proceedings with angst! There's never going to be 100% agreement in the Industry any more than there is in Damien O'Conner's field of politics and the Ministers references to the Industry of late show his advisors and confidants have less than a little knowledge of beekeepers, beekeeping in general and the Industry as a whole!
  7. With the excruciating and public mess this is turning into may I suggest:
    1. APINZ pull the Levy application, AFB application and GIA application until further notice
    2. Engage effectively with the commercial sector (one on one, small groups and road shows) and win their hearts and minds: You're never going to win everyone over but if you're on the right track I'll be on your side!
  8. And if this all doesn't work: well maybe there's an alternative idea/organisation that needs looking at: That after all is democracy - Where as the current manic, rushed Minister / APINZ driven side show isn't!

 

  • Like 1
  • Agree 8

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

@Frederick that is a very good post and mirrors my thoughts exactly.

 

I really think commercial beekeepers have been pretty much put on the sidelines in favour of corporates and packers and others not directly involved in actual beekeeping.

whether this is a fact or just an impression doesn’t really matter because it’s how it is perceived. 

  • Like 1
  • Agree 5

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 hours ago, frazzledfozzle said:

@Frederick that is a very good post and mirrors my thoughts exactly.

 

I really think commercial beekeepers have been pretty much put on the sidelines in favour of corporates and packers and others not directly involved in actual beekeeping.

whether this is a fact or just an impression doesn’t really matter because it’s how it is perceived. 

Totally agree

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
13 hours ago, Frederick said:

 

Thanks for putting some of the miscommunication to rights Dennis.

 

While not wanting to belittle any of the hard working people in APINZ who have had the decency to put their heads up above the parapet for what they consider is for the good of the industry I make the following points / queries for your comment:

  1. Have APINZ misread things? Can you please expand this question. 
  2. Have they pursued their aspirations for the Industry to early in the piece in that they've missed the boat in engaging the grass roots commercial sector in their vision prior to setting out on the Levy journey. No even before APINZ was formed the CLA was always on the cards, we were waiting to get the two beekeeping organisations to come together first. APINZ and a lot of beekeepers have always been upfront about wanting a CLA. I myself have spoken several times about it at conferenceses along with others.
  3. Would it not be better to actively engage with the commercial sector (on a one on one basis if need be) to sell them the APINZ vision as well as assimilating the engaged individuals ideas and concerns into the overall picture where appropriate. That is what we are doing, go to the roadshows and read the material put out send in your questions.
  4. APINZ are the stand out organisation in the Industry but have failed miserably in winning the hearts and minds of the commercial sector. We have to disagree with that statement, the communication we are getting has been very positive from the commercial sector who are a big part of our membership, but we can always do better.     
  5. I note their will be more Commercial board representation should the levy idea run at some time in the future and while seeing the rational here wonder at the current Commercial representation which gives a obviously talented person such as Kate Kimber a seat as a Commercial representative with little or no beekeeping experience (either in the field or the industry): I see no problem with her being on the board of any Industry good entity, however I suggest on a Marketing seat not as a Commercial Beekeeping representative. Not getting into personality politics but the company she represents has both a beekeeping arm and a packing arm both pay membership according to each arm. She has all the right to be there representing the beekeeping side as you do. Now anyone can put their name forward to be a board rep and the members vote on it. The problem comes when you have not many people wanting to get involved in the politics side of the industry, has been the same problem for all the years I've been involved. But I can see your question mark, but the answer is put more people up for standing.
  6. The vast majority of the commercial sector are watching these proceedings with angst! There's never going to be 100% agreement in the Industry any more than there is in Damien O'Conner's field of politics and the Ministers references to the Industry of late show his advisors and confidants have less than a little knowledge of beekeepers, beekeeping in general and the Industry as a whole!. Yet when I started we had a commodity levy we had lots of discussion and beeks attending meetings or taking notice and having a say because they had their own levy money tied up in the industry so they wanted to keep an eye on what happened with it, and so we all should, and out of that came all the manuka info and we have the industry that we have from there, right or wrong. I think right but we have a few problems that need sorting, we wont get 100% agreement as you are right we will never get that, we need the majority agreement as long as the 100% can see the long term benefit for their industry, just like in any other sphere of industry. There are always people that will never be happy but we cant let them dictate where the industry goes as it will go nowhere.
  7. With the excruciating and public mess this is turning into may I suggest:
    1. APINZ pull the Levy application, AFB application and GIA application until further notice. The AFB is up to the AFB management board hope you had your say by way of submissions. The GLA is happening to industries wether we like it or not, govt has put that into the bio-security act its happening, we have to decide what level we want to be involved in it because even if we opt out, other industries have the ability to send us a bill if get a benefit to them paying for an incursion that effects them, crazy but true thats why we need to be thinking about that one, its not about just bee disease/viruses/bugs but how we interact with other industries as well, and beekeeping is spread far and wide on other peoples land. The CLA is already started and there will always be people who say not yet just wait., certainly people that don't want to contribute anything, or in the past those that think that because they are bigger should only have to pay perhaps 0.30/hive while the little guys have to pay $1.00/hive and the bigger guys get waited voting rights as well, those types will never want to pay the same as anyone else. At least with this levy everyone pays the same.
    2. Engage effectively with the commercial sector (one on one, small groups and road shows) and win their hearts and minds: You're never going to win everyone over but if you're on the right track I'll be on your side! Thats what is happening hope to see you at one of them
  8. And if this all doesn't work: well maybe there's an alternative idea/organisation that needs looking at: That after all is democracy - Where as the current manic, rushed Minister / APINZ driven side show isn't!. We don't need anymore organisations as we are to small an industry and then nothing gets done and we all argue over the same stuff and then people make rash decisions to try and get 1 up manship that dosen't change anything and makes trying to deal with an issue even harder, and having a vote for the levy is democracy as you say, come along listen and learn then make up your own mind and vote.

 

 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
13 hours ago, frazzledfozzle said:

@Frederick that is a very good post and mirrors my thoughts exactly.

 

I really think commercial beekeepers have been pretty much put on the sidelines in favour of corporates and packers and others not directly involved in actual beekeeping.

whether this is a fact or just an impression doesn’t really matter because it’s how it is perceived. 

APINZ represents the industry, not just the beekeeping side but also the packing side as without the other there is no industry.

(For the sake of this post when I mention beekeeper I am meaning a beekeeper who makes their living off the bees the same as when I mention packer/marketer, also when I mention packer I mean the person we sell our honey to and they then on sell to either a retailer or another packer)

There is next to none commercial beekeeper in NZ that runs there outfit and does not sell any of the produce from their hives and just stores it in their shed. There is also no honey packer that has a company that does not sell honey. With out the exchange/sale of goods from the beekeepers to the packer in return for cash there is no industry. The exchange of goods is what creates the industry, we linked together by a drum of honey each having a hand on it so to speak. 

Now there are things that effect beekeeping that will have an impact on the packer and there are things that affect the packer that will have an impact on the beekeeper.

Yes there are now some companies that do both beekeeping and packing, but the same rules apply, there is an exchange from the beekeeping side of things to the packing side of things.

All the bee health issues are of concern to packers as this may affect the crop, and market access issues are a concern to beekeepers as that may affect our income, we are not separate from one another. Then there are govt decisions that affect both sides of the drum. Another new issue we have now is the rise of expectation from landowners where we all have hives placed on their land.Beekeeping has been called landless farming because we use other peoples land to carry our stock, just another issue that affects the whole industry not just one sector. 

I was beekeeping when we didn't have these issues, we still had others, and we could do what we wanted, but that is not the case now and we have to learn the new way of doing things, which is harder for the older guard as people don't like change.But change has and still is happening and we all need to be on top of it if we want to stay doing what we like doing.

Govt will always expect more from us, so will markets and bee health will always be an issue. We need to be working together to get the best out of our industry.

Now beekeepers can say all they want that nope we need just a beekeeping organisation, but then you still have to go talk to a packer to find out what is needed to sell them your crop, they still need to find out how much crop and what condition you have for their inventory and we both have to be up to play on all the regulatory requirements as well. 

That is what APINZ is about, the whole industry not just one part, and we have more power being in one organisation than several.

APINZ is only just started and we haven't got all the kinks out and is not one persons pet project, it is a starting point that can and will be changed and refined with people with different ideas and skills because it is about the whole industry. We are a food producing industry that uses bees to produce that food and we need to be the best we can be to keep getting the high price we have been, but we need to be all in and in charge of where we go.

This post has been more about the commercial side of things but there is a good place for the hobbyist side of beekeeping as well, and with all the work research and suchlike that comes out of the commercial side of things you benefit from as well, and we can benefit from hobbyists passion and trying of new things and perhaps foot soldiers if we need them etc.

Thats why I believe a CLA is needed, we can do so much for this industry together.

  • Like 5

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
7 hours ago, Dennis Crowley said:

APINZ represents the industry, not just the beekeeping side but also the packing side as without the other there is no industry.

(For the sake of this post when I mention beekeeper I am meaning a beekeeper who makes their living off the bees the same as when I mention packer/marketer, also when I mention packer I mean the person we sell our honey to and they then on sell to either a retailer or another packer)

There is next to none commercial beekeeper in NZ that runs there outfit and does not sell any of the produce from their hives and just stores it in their shed. There is also no honey packer that has a company that does not sell honey. With out the exchange/sale of goods from the beekeepers to the packer in return for cash there is no industry. The exchange of goods is what creates the industry, we linked together by a drum of honey each having a hand on it so to speak. 

Now there are things that effect beekeeping that will have an impact on the packer and there are things that affect the packer that will have an impact on the beekeeper.

Yes there are now some companies that do both beekeeping and packing, but the same rules apply, there is an exchange from the beekeeping side of things to the packing side of things.

All the bee health issues are of concern to packers as this may affect the crop, and market access issues are a concern to beekeepers as that may affect our income, we are not separate from one another. Then there are govt decisions that affect both sides of the drum. Another new issue we have now is the rise of expectation from landowners where we all have hives placed on their land.Beekeeping has been called landless farming because we use other peoples land to carry our stock, just another issue that affects the whole industry not just one sector. 

I was beekeeping when we didn't have these issues, we still had others, and we could do what we wanted, but that is not the case now and we have to learn the new way of doing things, which is harder for the older guard as people don't like change.But change has and still is happening and we all need to be on top of it if we want to stay doing what we like doing.

Govt will always expect more from us, so will markets and bee health will always be an issue. We need to be working together to get the best out of our industry.

Now beekeepers can say all they want that nope we need just a beekeeping organisation, but then you still have to go talk to a packer to find out what is needed to sell them your crop, they still need to find out how much crop and what condition you have for their inventory and we both have to be up to play on all the regulatory requirements as well. 

That is what APINZ is about, the whole industry not just one part, and we have more power being in one organisation than several.

APINZ is only just started and we haven't got all the kinks out and is not one persons pet project, it is a starting point that can and will be changed and refined with people with different ideas and skills because it is about the whole industry. We are a food producing industry that uses bees to produce that food and we need to be the best we can be to keep getting the high price we have been, but we need to be all in and in charge of where we go.

This post has been more about the commercial side of things but there is a good place for the hobbyist side of beekeeping as well, and with all the work research and suchlike that comes out of the commercial side of things you benefit from as well, and we can benefit from hobbyists passion and trying of new things and perhaps foot soldiers if we need them etc.

Thats why I believe a CLA is needed, we can do so much for this industry together.

I think just about all commercial beeks realise there needs to be unity and a levy of some sort  is inevitable. However, it still feels like we are being forced into paying and other industry sectors have a choice and are contributing much less.

Your response talks a lot about how we’re all in this together and we all win or lose togeather. 

I would still like an answer as to how Apinz plan to get other sectors contributing a fairer amount. 

  • Like 1
  • Agree 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 10/08/2018 at 12:08 AM, Dennis Crowley said:

No one is muzzled, the latest numbers are close to 900 members and rising, clubs are classed as 1 member, individuals in clubs not counted unless they have their own membership. Nothing underhanded going on here.

how many of the 900 are registered beekeepers?

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Do we really need increased levies?

 

Is there much wrong with status quo?

 

’Industry Good’ is one of those warm fuzzy phrases that comes with no guarantee of delivery.

 

Hitting producers in the pocket coinciding with declining returns and other increased costs isn’t ever going to go down well.

 

Producers get rewarded at the end of their efforts for a job well done or otherwise , yet the industries that expect us to support them want money up front , mostly for fairy tales .

 

Copying other industry models for funding is not at all the best way forward in my view .

 

Does anyone have any better ideas ? 

 

 

  • Like 1
  • Agree 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
11 minutes ago, M4tt said:

Does anyone have any better ideas ? 

Maybe ApiNZ could choose just one area of research/development/project, cost it out, develop a budget, and put out a specific one off VOLUNTARY levy. Ie replace the wishy washy  semantics with something hard & fast...no-one likes being dictated too, but a "look what we've got going here if we had $XX ??? "

Edited by yesbut
  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

  There'll always be coat tailers and scoads, but if beeks have a chance to consider a specific proposal on it's merits, and hand over affordable $$ they are comfortable with.......That way there's the common good AND independence...and some funding....a step at a time....you never know,

a voluntary net might even attract hobbyist funds.

Edited by yesbut
  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 hours ago, yesbut said:

Maybe ApiNZ could choose just one area of research/development/project, cost it out, develop a budget, and put out a specific one off VOLUNTARY levy. Ie replace the wishy washy  semantics with something hard & fast...no-one likes being dictated too, but a "look what we've got going here if we had $XX ??? "

Been there done that and haven't even got a t-shirt, that has been done, and is how it works now, guess what happens, a very few put their hand in their pocket for the benefit of everyone, it does not work.

  • Agree 1
  • Sad 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 hours ago, yesbut said:

Maybe ApiNZ could choose just one area of research/development/project, cost it out, develop a budget, and put out a specific one off VOLUNTARY levy. Ie replace the wishy washy  semantics with something hard & fast...no-one likes being dictated too, but a "look what we've got going here if we had $XX ??? "

 

2 minutes ago, Dennis Crowley said:

Been there done that and haven't even got a t-shirt, that has been done, and is how it works now, guess what happens, a very few put their hand in their pocket for the benefit of everyone, it does not work.

 

Sadly, Dennis is correct. And that refers to an earlier post I made where BF (Barry Foster) was going around various commercial groups trying to raise money for various projects. Barry was successful in raising some funds but not to the extent where co-funding could kick in and make the project happen. One exception is the Giant Willow Aphid project where a phenomenal amount of work went into raising funds to get this work done under SFF. This has allowed the importation of a parasitoid wasp that may help control this pest.

 

So as a non-binding (?) poll, who would kick in X amount for Y aspect of research ?  [JM]

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now

×
×
  • Create New...