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ApiNZ Levy Proposal

ApiNZ Commodity Levy Proposal

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As  non levy payer outsider I have to say this whole business is as amusing as the Ngapuhi settlement negotiations, and  likely to be settled in the same time frame !

Edited by yesbut

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25 minutes ago, yesbut said:

As  non levy payer outsider I have to say this whole business is as amusing as the Ngapuhi settlement negotiations, and  likely to be settled in the same time frame !

 

I am glad we can provide you with a smile during this exercise. The commercial sector has provided huge amounts of money and voluntary labour over many years, into AFB management and research, and varroa management and research, so you can enjoy the magnificent hobby of keeping bees.

Sorry, but without our input, your bees would not exist, which is why every hobby beekeeper in NZ, IS part of this discussion.

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24 minutes ago, Bushy said:

Sorry, but without our input, your bees would not exist, which is why every hobby beekeeper in NZ, IS part of this discussion

Ok then. If all beeks big and small don't swallow their pride and let ApiNZ get on with it with their 1.2 mill budget as above then nothing will eventuate for a very long time.

Edited by yesbut

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26 minutes ago, yesbut said:

Ok then. If all beeks big and small don't swallow their pride and let ApiNZ get on with it with their 1.2 mill budget as above then nothing will eventuate for a very long time.

 

You are right, but the debate at the moment is just to ensure two things.

1) The greater industry wants/can afford to spend 1.2million outside any research budget.

2) Is ApiNZ the best vehicle to be given this extra 1.2million. For this amount of money, there are likely to be any number of acceptable options if we are just given time to digest everything and plan properly, looking to take the best of all industry groups.

 

While this has been on ApiNZ's agenda for 2+ years, for many non Apinz members this was brand new news only 8 weeks ago.

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1 hour ago, Bushy said:

 

Lets make this $1.2 truly contestible to any administration group and then we will see true industry good committements.

 

 

As I said at the Gisborne meeting, I am not for or against the levy. That would be unfair since, as a hobbiest, I wouldn't be paying a honey levy.

What I *am* for is research.

I can understand the 'independence' of any funds raised but I believe that it is all bound by the Commodity Levies Act, as to how the funds can be used and administered

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It’s quite easy to disguise how funds are truly being spent with broad titles on a pie chart.

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1 hour ago, Daley said:

It’s quite easy to disguise how funds are truly being spent with broad titles on a pie chart.

 

In a general sense, yes . . .but as I understand it with a commodity levy . .  no, not according to the Commodity Levies Act, its not. As Dennis has said previously, he (and the board) would be seriously in the deep stuff.

If one was to get overly cynical, how does a beekeeper know their extraction plant really is extracting 60kg of manuka from the 4 boxes on reach of your hives? (!).

And not actually 65kg and storing the extra 5kg in their own drum?

 

(And yes, I know you extract your own @Daley  :1_grinning: )

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I think yours is a good summation @Bushy, currently the sell the levy spin is almost totally hanging on a fairly emotive 'research' tag yet the vast bulk of the levy monies are frankly tagged for diversion to someone else's agenda.

In my opinion there is enormous vested interest and (thus I feel conflict of interest) from some of the levy supporters/promoters.

The total amount of the levy funds needs to be placed in the hands of an independent body. With proper management the funds could easily create a very large fund for the future without the best part of it chewed up by ApiNZ's agenda.

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8 hours ago, Bushy said:

For this amount of money, there are likely to be any number of acceptable options if we are just given time to digest everything and plan properly, looking to take the best of all industry groups.

Bushy you come across as a very astute Man, or Woman whichever the case may be.
As such, surely you realize the enormity of the Quoted Paragraph.
How and where for example, as the initiator of a search for "any number of acceptable solutions" and "taking the best of all industry groups" would you start and how long would it take.
Would such an endeavor be like "herding Cats" 

 

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A prime example of why I don't think anything will happen unless there's a big change of beeks mindset

Edited by yesbut

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I think an acceptable solution would be that ApiNZ owns it's failure to attract the majority of the beekeeping register and sets forth to achieve that before proceeding any further down the levy pathway.

Horse before the cart.

There are a number of reasons they have failed so far and a determined effort at firstly fair representation of beekeepers (at all levels, large, small & smaller) on the Board.

I think this would have to involve representation on the Board of most other beekeeper organisations or we will continue to have a fractured industry.

Capture by compulsion/stealth/ clever goal post positions etc is doomed to failure probably sooner than later.

 

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7 minutes ago, Ali said:

I think an acceptable solution would be that ApiNZ owns it's failure to attract the majority of the beekeeping register and sets forth to achieve that before proceeding any further down the levy pathway.

Not possible. Kiwis are not "club" people. It would have to be compulsory.

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23 minutes ago, yesbut said:

big change of beeks mindset

What sort of change?

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2 minutes ago, Philbee said:

What sort of change?

Drop the pride, drop the suspicion, drop the conspiracy theory, let ApiNZ get on with it.

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Just now, yesbut said:

Drop the pride, drop the suspicion, drop the conspiracy theory, let ApiNZ get on with it.

I tend to agree Pink Cat
Bushy's interpretation was rather frightening and possibly accurate but Dollar  numbers can always be adjusted because they are only numbers
Whats required is a framework to start with.

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7 minutes ago, Philbee said:

Bushy you come across as a very astute Man, or Woman whichever the case may be.
As such, surely you realize the enormity of the Quoted Paragraph.
How and where for example, as the initiator of a search for "any number of acceptable solutions" and "taking the best of all industry groups" would you start and how long would it take.
Would such an endeavor be like "herding Cats" 

 

Thanks for the compliment. I'm male and my moniker is my name. Why hide if you believe in what you say.

Ill skip the previous 100 years that formulated a lot of my views, but three years ago we had industry unification in the palm of our hands. I was a supporter, but Unfortunately a small group of individuals pushed through a hasty agenda that was arrogant and completely disregarded  a precious and hard fought history. We requested an extra year to work through all the issues and build the best from NBA history, with a modern future. 

The actual became smaller family run business were dumped on, branch social networks disbanded, NBA history was ignored, and we were told ApiNZ was the only group like it or lump it.

 

Instead of getting an 80% to 90% vote in support of change, ApiNZ had already created enough disconnect to scrap through just over 50%. Personally this was a sad day as an opportunity was lost.

 

Now this same group is asking for $2 million dollars for activities that have not been discussed enough to truly make a decision of this magnitude. 

Personally if all this was put on the back burner for 12 months to set up structures that took the best from the NBA, family business interests, and yes, larger operators we would have a different situation. Use transparent and truly contestible trusts to hold research money, and put "industry good/administration" money in a trust contestible but all industry groups. 

 

So many people have requested ApiNZ to connect to grass roots beekeeping. How long would it take. Probably not long. 

 

 

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I don't think there is much interest in the current make up the ApiNZ board to connect with the majority of the beekeepers register.

They seemingly claim to have the big operators on board and of course the packers etc well represented but not by far the bulk of the people who make up the nations beekeepers.

The only attempt I have seen to connect is recent when they have a grand scheme to take as much control and money as they can. It has certainly been cleverly structured as to who will have any vote in the matter.

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45 minutes ago, Ali said:

I don't think there is much interest in the current make up the ApiNZ board to connect with the majority of the beekeepers register.

They seemingly claim to have the big operators on board and of course the packers etc well represented but not by far the bulk of the people who make up the nations beekeepers.

The only attempt I have seen to connect is recent when they have a grand scheme to take as much control and money as they can. It has certainly been cleverly structured as to who will have any vote in the matter.

 

I am not sure I can agree with you Ali.

In 2014 in Wanganui the Minister for MPI Nathan Guy called for the NBA and BIG to bury the hatchet and get together as MPI would only deal with one organisation with respect to Biosecurity. As a result we have had the formation of Api NZ with majority beekeeper support.

Since then we have seen Beekeeping NZ Inc. form under the support of Russell Berry, who told everyone at the Levy meeting in Hamilton that 'Arataki is the largest honey packer in NZ and the largest honey supplier to the domestic market'. Russell is smart, he is also a life member of Api NZ plus he has his hands on Beekeeping NZ Inc.

Beekeeping NZ Inc also has some big beekeeping enterprises supporting them, so your statement that they are all in Api NZ is not necessarily correct. 

 

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They may indeed be the largest supplier to the domestic market @Don Mac

I haven't claimed "all" the bigger operators but to claim 50% of hives is to clearly indicate that with ApiNZ's membership numbers they are in fact the larger hive holders.

A lot has happened since 2014! However I too support a one entity but am completely unhappy about how ApiNZ has conducted itself (or not conducted itself). The levy proposal is premature to say the least. 

There seems to be an arrogant assumption that if the can compel the majority of people who have hives to fund them that it will end well. It needs to be remembered that hive numbers do not represent people numbers in the same proportion. It is not only an industry they are messing with it. It is people, their families, their well being.

The current behaviours of ApiNZ are to my mind high handed and exceedingly poorly managed to the degree that some will conclude that it is not ineptitude but design.

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14 hours ago, Don Mac said:

 

I am not sure I can agree with you Ali.

In 2014 in Wanganui the Minister for MPI Nathan Guy called for the NBA and BIG to bury the hatchet and get together as MPI would only deal with one organisation with respect to Biosecurity. As a result we have had the formation of Api NZ with majority beekeeper support.

Since then we have seen Beekeeping NZ Inc. form under the support of Russell Berry, who told everyone at the Levy meeting in Hamilton that 'Arataki is the largest honey packer in NZ and the largest honey supplier to the domestic market'. Russell is smart, he is also a life member of Api NZ plus he has his hands on Beekeeping NZ Inc.

Beekeeping NZ Inc also has some big beekeeping enterprises supporting them, so your statement that they are all in Api NZ is not necessarily correct. 

 

No government minister has the right to decide how many groups he will liaise with, that is not how democracy works, and especially an industry that has had very little financial input or even competent MPI staffing from the said ministers government. 

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1 hour ago, Sailabee said:

No government minister has the right to decide how many groups he will liaise with, that is not how democracy works, and especially an industry that has had very little financial input or even competent MPI staffing from the said ministers government. 

If you put the shoe on the other foot for a minute and pretend to be someone from government looking at the bee industry, would you honestly think it an industry worth financial input and competent staffing?

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25 minutes ago, Otto said:

If you put the shoe on the other foot for a minute and pretend to be someone from government looking at the bee industry, would you honestly think it an industry worth financial input and competent staffing?

I think it should be because they’re getting plenty of money out of it.

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1 hour ago, Otto said:

If you put the shoe on the other foot for a minute and pretend to be someone from government looking at the bee industry, would you honestly think it an industry worth financial input and competent staffing?

How many new jobs has the industry provided and the last five years? How much GST and tax? What is it's full potential that research and investment could uncover? 

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3 hours ago, Sailabee said:

What is it's full potential that research and investment could uncover? 

That's going to take years if ever to find out if this thread is anything to go by

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3 hours ago, Sailabee said:

How many new jobs has the industry provided and the last five years? How much GST and tax? 

 

Not to mention the money DOC is making from site fees and then there’s  all the Manuka being planted to help with carbon credits.

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