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Which way do I vote on the honey levy ?


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44 minutes ago, frazzledfozzle said:

 

Yes this is the question I want answered!

its all very well to say members of ApiNZ make up 51% of the registered beehives in NZ but we all know most of those beehives are owned by corporates a lot of them with offshore owners who wouldn’t know a beehive from a hot cross bun. 

And most of them producing and selling their own product for a whole lot more than $4.50 a kg !

I never new that there was overseas ownership of NZ bee hives .

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Given ApiNZ do not represent the majority of bee keeping enterprises the above is no surprise. @ApiNZ Science & Research perhaps you can offer some insight as to how it is ApiNZ feel so free

Thanks for the answer. in you initial post you said  “our key stakeholders have made it clear that they wish to see a more united and engaged industry” what I’m asking is who are these already

It has occurred to me , and correct me If I am wrong , that a lot of the issues with modern bee keeping are caused by over stocking . Caused by modern corporate bee keeping practices , who now wa

55 minutes ago, frazzledfozzle said:

 

Yes this is the question I want answered!

its all very well to say members of ApiNZ make up 51% of the registered beehives in NZ but we all know most of those beehives are owned by corporates a lot of them with offshore owners who wouldn’t know a beehive from a hot cross bun. 

And most of them producing and selling their own product for a whole lot more than $4.50 a kg !

It’s very clear they are taking a real politicians attitude to not answering this question.  The answer obviously doesn’t enhance their agenda.  So an organisation that supposedly supports/represents all beekeepers and wants our support to “distribute” our proposed levy funds is refusing to disclose its membership details.  How on earth can we support such an organisation.  Like lots of commercials I’m not totally against a levy - I am just very uncomfortable with this lot managing it - particularly in light of their continual refusal to answer a legitimate question.  What else aren’t/won’t they telling us.  Come on @Dennis Crowley or any other board members viewing this thread - do your job and answer the question.  How many of the total number of registered beekeepers in NZ are ApiNZ members??

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3 hours ago, ApiNZ Science & Research said:

ApiNZ represents more than 50% of beehives and honey production in NZ

Now we are getting there, nearer to the truth but not the whole truth is it @ApiNZ Levy Proposal & @ApiNZ Science & Research?

The public of NZ and the entirety of the beekeepers register has the need and indeed I believe the right to know what the number of registered beekeepers is that belongs to ApiNZ

You are now openly alluding to funding from the public purse as well as attempting to compel the whole of the beekeepers register (8000 odd members of the NZ public) to contribute to your organisation.

It is timely to come clean and stop this web of deceit.

You are currently exposing ApiNZ (and I believe the Hon. Minister) to irreparable reputational harm and thus the whole NZ beekeeping and honey industry.

Edited by Ali
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4 hours ago, ApiNZ Science & Research said:

To help answer this question


1. ApiNZ represents more than 50% of beehives and honey production in NZ
2. When we refer to stakeholders we don’t only mean ApiNZ members.  We work with a variety of stakeholders, including Government, Scientists and other industry bodies – they have all given us feedback that Apiculture would be better represented with one industry voice. I have heard this time & again when talking to scientists if only we had a levy much more could be done. What's more having levy funds available gives us greater chances of securing government contributions through programs such as the Sustainable Farming Fund. I have personally seen this with the example of the research into a bio-control for the giant willow aphid which I chair. It took three applications being turned down before the four application was successful. Having levy funds in place to co-fund with government money would have likely made it easier to get government funding at the first application rather than the forth.
3. In the event of a successful levy vote, all levy payers will become members, finally uniting industry under one umbrella. 
4. We don’t levy packers and marketers as we can’t!  The honey they purchase, however, has had a levy paid on it.
5. This is very similar to how other industry good commodity levy organisations work.  For example, HortNZ
6. 91% of our members are beekeepers currently.

BF
 

re your answer to question 1 - your evasiveness is disgusting. Aren't you ashamed at your inability to directly answer the question of how many registered beekeepers are members? if not, then wow, you should be. Maybe @Dennis Crowley can share this info

re your answer to question 2 - i am a beekeeper. by your definition that makes me a  stakeholder. I abhor your approach, so you're lying if you claim to represent all your stakeholders.

re your answer to question 3 - your umbrella is broken

re 4 - packers and marketers should then have zero board representation and zero votes unless you charge them a membership fee that matches any levy generated. You'd soon see where their support really lies.

Edited by tommy dave
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2 minutes ago, nikki watts said:

Most of the posts here are saying the same thing. I guess it’s up to all of us to make submissions, to the minister and Apinz and see if this really is a democratic system. Somehow I suspect not.  

Yes your right - these posts are the same.  Isn’t it beyond belief that they haven’t got the message that to have any semblance of credibility they need to answer our question!!

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20 hours ago, Ted said:

Thankyou Barry - one question still goes unanswered.  It’s a very simple question so please don’t let me down!!

Of all the registered Beekeepers in Nz how many are ApiNZ members??

I don't know the exact number of members of ApiNZ, sorry. However, there are two points to consider here. Firstly, the question of mandate that I gather is behind your question will at the end of the day be determined by the outcome of the vote on the levy and not before. The other really important point that is getting missed is that many of the challenges our industry faces in areas such as in bee health and biosecurity for example are universal challenges which are best tackled universally. That is the rational at the heart having a levy to meet them. Varroa plus viruses takes no prisoners no matter the numbers of hives you own so it makes sense to tackle these sorts of issues collectively. These challenges to our industry and hobbies are not decreasing but increasing and we cannot continue to think that contributions towards research by government plus voluntary con-funding from within our industry will fix them or even continue. BF

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27 minutes ago, ApiNZ Science & Research said:

I don't know the exact number of members of ApiNZ, sorry.

Thank you for at least acknowledging the question. It is a move forward even if it does not address the issue.

@ApiNZ Levy Proposal a further effort by the Board & CEO is called for in this question.

If a mandate (from the majority of beekeeping enterprises) is truly sought then this issue must be addressed prior to the levy proposal.

The industry is crying out for unity and to address burgeoning issues including bee health/research. I think this is acknowledged by all.

The current lack of transparency of ApiNZ is abhorrent and doing nothing (but spread distrust) for the unity of the industry. It is not an example of industry good and is simply creating further problems.

This is a direct challenge to the Board members & CEO of ApiNZ to step forward with integrity and address the matter of current ApiNZ membership numbers.

 

 

 

 

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Ali, I have to ask, I'm largely staying out of this because it doesn't affect me. As a "beginner beek" you seem to have built up a bit of a head of steam. Do you plan 

on going commercial looking ahead ?

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2 hours ago, ApiNZ Science & Research said:

I don't know the exact number of members of ApiNZ, sorry. However, there are two points to consider here. Firstly, the question of mandate that I gather is behind your question will at the end of the day be determined by the outcome of the vote on the levy and not before. The other really important point that is getting missed is that many of the challenges our industry faces in areas such as in bee health and biosecurity for example are universal challenges which are best tackled universally. That is the rational at the heart having a levy to meet them. Varroa plus viruses takes no prisoners no matter the numbers of hives you own so it makes sense to tackle these sorts of issues collectively. These challenges to our industry and hobbies are not decreasing but increasing and we cannot continue to think that contributions towards research by government plus voluntary con-funding from within our industry will fix them or even continue. BF

 

But this is the crux of the problem BF. If all the levy money was going into an independent trust, completely transparent, and contestable by all groups equally, we would not be having all this discussion.

Our problem is your so called "mandate" is for complete control of industry by Apinz if this levy goes ahead, and these two subjects should be completely separate.

 

We do not need APInz to be the managers of levy money collected, but sure as heck APInz needs the levy money to stay in existence.

 

You know discussions have been held at your board level to plan for only one industry body and that is to be APInz, so do not belittle people who have no desire for this to happen.

 

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@ApiNZ Science & Research why can the number of beekeepers not be found out you want the mandate to enforce a tax on people who you don't even know you have in your bee club ? 

Saying you will have the numbers after the vote is not a good answer how many days have you had to get a answer. 

How are we going to make a informed choice on the vote if you withhold very important information.

This will only affect beekeepers yet you can't say how many beekeepers you have?

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If we are to be forced into ApiNZ do we not have a right to know how much of the levy will be spent on ApiNZ and admin this should not be hidden in twisted words and half truths.

If we are paying to keep ApiNZ afloat why do we not have a majority vote.

And I'll repeat my unanswered questions if you as you say have sorry will look back but was it 92 percent beekeepers to other's why does the minority have control over the majority.

If you get a Yes vote this will only increase 

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3 hours ago, ApiNZ Science & Research said:

I don't know the exact number of members of ApiNZ, sorry. However, there are two points to consider here. Firstly, the question of mandate that I gather is behind your question will at the end of the day be determined by the outcome of the vote on the levy and not before. The other really important point that is getting missed is that many of the challenges our industry faces in areas such as in bee health and biosecurity for example are universal challenges which are best tackled universally. That is the rational at the heart having a levy to meet them. Varroa plus viruses takes no prisoners no matter the numbers of hives you own so it makes sense to tackle these sorts of issues collectively. These challenges to our industry and hobbies are not decreasing but increasing and we cannot continue to think that contributions towards research by government plus voluntary con-funding from within our industry will fix them or even continue. BF

I would be cautiously optimistic that the immediate threat from Varroa and the subsequent Viruses has largely been dealt with now.
If you had been with me yesterday as I drove around a hundred or more hives that have not ever seen a synthetic treatment then you would probably have come to the conclusion yourself that the wolf has been pushed back from the door.
Id say this cost me about 100k so far with probably a couple of Hundered K to go if need be
Its likely that the stakeholders will develop the AFB Dogto be very effective as well which will probably cost about 200k collectively.
This private sector work  might free up some industry funds for really important things like marketing.

Edited by Philbee
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7 hours ago, yesbut said:

Ali, I have to ask, I'm largely staying out of this because it doesn't affect me. As a "beginner beek" you seem to have built up a bit of a head of steam. Do you plan 

on going commercial looking ahead ?

Heya @yesbut, at 3 and a bit seasons in I am a rank beginner still. That said, I have developed a small commercial enterprise that despite all is growing.

My stance is one of abhorrence of what I see as the lack of integrity, transparency and honesty in an organisation like ApiNZ (or any other for that matter) that holds itself up, self appointed, as a lead industry body.

I refuse to be a part of the silent majority any more and hope that many more will rise up.

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Thought some might find this useful https://apinz.org.nz/levy/  think I had to pay an extra 10 cents as it would accept zero but since have only used a kilo of our honey in the last year seemed fair. Really enjoying the access to the magazine I got today but I have a screed of things to read unrelated to beekeeping directly will be into the nitty gritty of it later. Have til October so !yah! 

Think AP2 are bad try being a sentinel hive. Had them show up and rip off entrance reducer that was part of the hive base leaving it nails up (promise to return it once done not carried through on- despite there being rather swish screened bottom in place they had to use their own directly under the super with no screen), Part of the woodwork ripped off the front of the super (local milled and skilfully made) which is now rotting there so designated swarm trap (the plus side of commercials on the edge of town). The fun had only just begun when the miscreant nearly decapitated his work mate who was looking at the comings and goings at the entrance when the super slipped.

Keen as mustard queen breeder squeezed drones to try and show how there was a problem with drones (Leave my boys alone!) Said miscreant then jammed his razor sharp hive tool in the gate as he prepared to leave. Had tolerated all this to the bitter end and asked to be given copy of results especially of the bee samples they took but there was a “call that a hive tool, this is a hive tool” moment. However I realised something was up and then came the announcement about Lotmaria passim. But in the meantime I had an immediate 50% loss and that was my replacement queen as thought the other may not make it through… she didn’t. Never did get any type of results or feedback despite enquiries. So 100% loss of hives, three years work munted and no data...<sigh>

Then happy days May this year when the AP2 showed up. Don’t think he was expecting such an enthused welcome but I had discovered that bees had swarmed in and couldn’t chance an inspection with a dodgy back. It’s great when a tenant doesn’t spray interested ants to save the scout bees. Dad was delighted when I told him I’d finally made the naught girl list (DECA revoked cos can’t inspect a non existant hive) but had kept the number of hives as “1” just in case. Sneaky little….”just when you think you’re out they pull you back in”.

So after this little tale (because if you read you will find “sentinel hives” mentioned... before the endless round of questions, misquotes, misunderstanding and sabre rattling starts) I’m for the off,

Ciao for now…. The Scarlet Manuka

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9 hours ago, Ali said:

Heya @yesbut, at 3 and a bit seasons in I am a rank beginner still. That said, I have developed a small commercial enterprise that despite all is growing.

My stance is one of abhorrence of what I see as the lack of integrity, transparency and honesty in an organisation like ApiNZ (or any other for that matter) that holds itself up, self appointed, as a lead industry body.

I refuse to be a part of the silent majority any more and hope that many more will rise up.

Aeaah .... sharpen yer hive tools ..... and Glynn has a guillotine.

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1 hour ago, jamesc said:

Aeaah .... sharpen yer hive tools ..... and Glynn has a guillotine.

Viva La bee keeping Revolution you could make a village people's video I know someone in cowboy boots and hat.

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If my memory is right ,then Apinz say they will charge every levy payer $86 for the privilege of paying this levy, so, If only 5000 of the registerd beekeepers become levy payers Apinz will benefit to the tune of around $430,000 each year and the way it read to me was that we pay this $86 as well as the levy 

I could be wrong ,so please correct me if I am.

 

 

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