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Which way do I vote on the honey levy ?


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Just now, frazzledfozzle said:

It’s all pretty dodgy to me.

if industry is to vote on a levy but only a small percentage of beekeepers are notified  then that’s straight out dishonest. 

As usual it’s the producer that gets ripped off with having to pay this levy on top of all the other testing fees etc. 

And as usual the middleman who profits most from our hard work  pays nothing.

 

I can imagine there will be all sorts of people putting their hand out for so called “research” money,

Most importantly and above everything else is the fact that we still haven’t been notified is anyone else still waiting for notification?

what is ApiNzs game ?

i think it's the case that voting won't open on this until October? and that there is a plan to do a big write-up in the beekeeper magazine edition that all registered beekeepers should receive?

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Given ApiNZ do not represent the majority of bee keeping enterprises the above is no surprise. @ApiNZ Science & Research perhaps you can offer some insight as to how it is ApiNZ feel so free

Thanks for the answer. in you initial post you said  “our key stakeholders have made it clear that they wish to see a more united and engaged industry” what I’m asking is who are these already

It has occurred to me , and correct me If I am wrong , that a lot of the issues with modern bee keeping are caused by over stocking . Caused by modern corporate bee keeping practices , who now wa

8 minutes ago, tommy dave said:

i think it's the case that voting won't open on this until October? and that there is a plan to do a big write-up in the beekeeper magazine edition that all registered beekeepers should receive?

 

There should still be a notification of the “roadshow” otherwise what’s the point in having one ?

with something as big as this all beekeepers should have the opportunity to ask questions and receive answers not just a select few.

I would ask why have some received emails and other not ?

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I do think it's important to go to the meetings and try to get as many people along as possible so everyone knows exactly what's going on. My view is very self sented as we are small fry in a big pond I need to know where our hard earned dollars are going as there's not much to go round.

I'm not happy that I will be getting 5 bucks if I'm lucky a kg and paying the same per kg as someone that's getting a heck of a lot more.

There's been a metric truck load of cash spent on Manuka over the years some have reaped the rewards but there's so many people here that have not and have done the work themselves.

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2 hours ago, glynn said:

Just remember a non vote counts as a yes vote.

Seams like there not a lot of information that's forthcoming I miss heard the 1 percent @Dennis Crowley maybe you could answer some of the questions being asked rather than just replying to mine which is a mile wong. How much will go to pay office critters how much will go to real work in scientific research? Why do you believe ApiNZ should be responsible for the leveys when over half the board are not the people paying but have a stake in the industry. 

I'm asking as I have not received any information from the people trying to collect the leveys other than go to meetings but if I wasn't shown buy others when the meeting where on how would I know.

 

 

Administration is always going to cost.  That's just the way it is.  

Those 'non' beekeeper do have a stake in beekeeping- they want us to be successful and buy their stuff.  Without us buying they will hurt

There is information on the Apinz website and we are discussing things here also.  Though I agree,  we didn't all receive the email. 

 

I am undecided.  I never joined any organisation, except the now defunct KPA (Kiwifruit Pollination Association)   I do think a joint beekeeping group, a nice strong lobby group who get listened to is important moving ahead. 

My sticking point is the  10 cents per kg.  No matter of value of honey and if it's sold or not.  I can understand why this method was chosen but I don't like it one bit. 

And that a small group of beekeepers don't pay much at all as they are queen/cell/hive/nuc producers. 

No other potential options were given to vote on, so we only get to vote yes/no on this one option.  

 

I think, a % on sale is a fair enough method to collect a levy. Whether it's honey, queens, hives, cells, nucs.... 

Apinz will get more $ and more buy in from a broader range of beekeepers. 

 

Shame it wasn't an option to vote on

 

 

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15 minutes ago, M4tt said:

A non vote should never be a yes vote . That’s making assumptions that are clearly wrong .

 

Im not at all a fan of watching the Bee industry following the dairy industry as it’s obvious the ‘powers that be’, whoever they are , have been driving towards for some time . 

 

The dairy industry borders in being an epic failure with catastrophic debt levels to back that statement up . Not at all the mark of a vibrant industry . On top of that , the ‘single’ representative of either Fonterra, or DairyNZ plain just doesn’t work . There is mass disagreement prevalent as that’s human nature . 

One of the major things I find appealing about the beekeeping industry is it hasn’t yet forced everyone into the same box . 

 

A levy to some degree could be sensible for industry good activities , however a good chunk will end up as salaries while the producer/price takers sit at the bottom of the food chain and wonder where their levy is going , as most will realise no benefit whatsoever from it , and then compulsararily contribute more when biosecurity is breached , thanks to the GIA arrangement.

 

APINZ and indeed NZ Beekeeping Inc should probably  be seeking a government contribution . 

 

Once one or the other gets funding via a levy , they tend to become a money hungry machine that not necessarily represents the majority view 

Look at how much the top men at fonterra get the vote is going to be the same as the as the dairy vote I think  they have to follow a process to prove it's what the industry wants.

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I've only skimmed though this thread but:

-  Have not received any info from ApiNZ on this, despite significant tonneage (for me) going through an RMP extractor this past season.  How are they contacting people?  Just ApiNZ members - which I'm not?

-  Some theory I learnt a long time ago while a hungry student said any taxation system should be fair ie in this case involve not just honey producers, but others eg Queen producers,

-  And on fairness again - on the honey side, a $0.10 levy on multi-floral is a much bigger hit than the same levy on manuka.  Perhaps the levy on "manuka honey" needs to be higher eg $0.20?

-  Why is there no meeting in Auckland?  There are billions of hives here, and millions of people.  Going to Whanga's or Ham'town for the day as the season is hitting full swing has very little interest,

- And finally while ApiNZ and NZ Gov are pushing this through, who is representing the interests of us the industry?  I thought that was ApiNZ's job? But they are clearly conflicted,

- ALSO, why is there not a proper round of consultation, seems to me the meetings will just be lip service, and you then get to Say Yes or No.  

 

 

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18 hours ago, Ali said:

In essence ApiNZ does not have the support of the vast majority of beekeeping enterprises.

They have failed to attract this support for a lot of reasons.

Largely they have failed sadly in their bid.

So they now wish to assume control of the majority of the funding and force a very unwilling majority of beekeeping enterprises to bow to them.

Control by the gun at the head (old fashioned gunboat diplomacy?). 

Come to our meetings or we will just blow you out of the water.

I wonder if ApiNZ have any idea how much of a disservice they have done their future possible support from the majority of beekeepers!

 

Very well said thank you

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On 3/08/2018 at 11:24 PM, Dennis Crowley said:

Nothing is in stone yet, go to the meetings and listen and then have your say. The board has chosen honey sales, if the majority want a levy but a different amount per kg or a different option on what is levied then we have to listen. But first things first go to the meetings please. Don’t jump to conclusions, come and listen n then make up your mind which way to vote. Go read the levy act, only those paying the Levi get to vote on where/how it is spent, if a hobbyist sells a drum of honey he gets levied and the right to a say just as commercial. We all pay the same rate no matter how big or small our operations are if we sell honey. (Now I’ve used honey here because to illustrate, as I said if the majority want another option to levy then we would listen) If it is a no vote the status quo remains and we go on complaining about the freeloaders, lack of research, us n them etc etc. which would make this forum boring as we would have to accept that’s what we wanted and have nothing to complain about. Just to open and transparent, I have always said I want a levy and everyone no matter how big or small to pay the same price, as I believe that each persons business is just as important to them as the next persons no matter the size, and went on the board of both NBA and APINZ with that as my reason for standing.

Go to the meetings and have your say before making up your mind please.

Why not introduce your team Dennis
It appears to me that there are significant trust issues coming to the fore here?
I note that you are the only one photographed not wearing a suit?  

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been discussing this issue with my bro,

 

why not Levy on a registered apiary level? 

For instance, 

0-5 apiaries $X

5-20 apiaries $XX

20-40 apiaries $XXX 

And so on, 

 

This way, all beekeepers get a levied.  The Levy is according to your 'size'.  Manages to capture all beekeepers, whether honey producers or not. 

The bottom 0-5 can be levied at a lower rate to accommodate hobby/amateur beekeepers. 

We don't need to accurately disclose our apiary numbers- though it could be cross checked with the AFB register. 

It's simple.  

 

We wondered that the 10cents per kilo was some method to monitor/discover honey production.   

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53 minutes ago, Gino de Graaf said:

We wondered that the 10cents per kilo was some method to monitor/discover honey production.   

More likely a figure plucked out of the air to promote this very discussion !

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6 hours ago, Philbee said:

Why not introduce your team Dennis
It appears to me that there are significant trust issues coming to the fore here?
I note that you are the only one photographed not wearing a suit?  

I don’t own a suit. 

The boards details are on the website

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1 hour ago, frazzledfozzle said:

is it possible for someone who knows what they are doing to set up a poll to see how many beekeepers who have honey extracted in a facility have received emails it would also be good to know whether those that have received emails are ApiNZ members or not.

of course they're only e-mailing ApiNZ members, those are their supporters already and they're trying to backdoor an approach to be the body representing all beekeepers in NZ. 'a majority of votes', all commercial production not voted should be counted as votes against API-NZ and their proposed levy.

 

Smells like the actions of the type of organisation we'd be well rid of, and sure-as-hell don't want people with such a cynical and morally bankrupt approach to be anywhere near decision-making on behalf of all NZ beekeepers.

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hit submit too early, then couldn't edit:

of course they're only e-mailing ApiNZ members, those are their supporters already and they're trying to backdoor an approach to be the body representing all beekeepers in NZ. 'a majority of votes', all commercial production not voted should be counted as votes against API-NZ and their proposed levy.

 

Smells like the actions of the type of organisation we'd be well rid of, and sure-as-hell don't want people with such a cynical and morally bankrupt approach to be anywhere near decision-making on behalf of all NZ beekeepers.

 

API-NZ should be thought of as a club - that's what they are now, they should act on behalf of their members, but not seek to act beyond that. They have no mandate to represent nz beekeeping as a national body, and without that mandate they should pull their head in.

 

As for the levy, if it does come to pass that API-NZ end up controlling a levy paid for by honey producers, then there should be nobody on that board that isn't voted in by honey-levy payers, and no quota on board member backgrounds = only representatives of commercial honey producers = get rid of the others, or change the proposed levy structure so they pay a compulsory levy too.

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I am sure having only commercial beekeepers in charge won't be a good thing either.  Us beekeeper can be a stubborn bunch who have for years worked outside of any real structure. Very independent and intrinsically motivated individual game players who tend to piss on each other.  

Some of the 'non' beekeepers on the board need beekeeper success for their own success.  They also bring a great deal of experience, suit wearers or not. 

 

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1 hour ago, ApiNZ Science & Research said:

ApiNZ do not have the email addresses of all beekeepers . . .nor do they have access to the AFB register for use (privacy laws).

If you google 'ApiNZ' and 'levy' then you should find all the information you require - meeting dates, levy models and a case study f=of the Hort NZ levy.[JM]

I remember ApiNZ, via this site actively calling for beekeeper help in creating a data base of Oxalic Acid suppliers.
The same initiative could easily be used to gather contact details of Beekeepers so the lack of contact detail claims is a stretch IMO.
There was a gangster movie on TV  Saturday night which was really just a clone of the 1987 movie the Untouchables.
The general story line is that a group of Cops under the orders of the Bureau of Prohibition go after the bad guys (Al Capone)who were selling liquor during the Prohibition period in Chicago 1930

This group of Cops could do what ever it took to get the job done.
 
 

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