Which way do I vote on the honey levy ?

[Otto 780]

14 minutes ago, Gino de Graaf said:

The Apinz website has a case study.  Horticulture NZ levy.  

That Levy is 15 cents on every $100 of sales.  1.5%

Note, on Sales, not harvest. 

And a flat rate of 1.5% for every 100.  It's proportional.  

 

Your maths is slightly out - 15c out of $100 is 0.15%

[Otto 780]

I do however fully agree with the maths on a "simple" system of 10c per kg of honey produced. This will get a lots of beekeepers that produce lower value honey anti the proposed levy because they will very rightly feel they are paying more that their share. The levy needs to be a flat percentage on actual sales (as in Gino's example). Why come up with a proposal that is immediately going to cause a them versus us mentality to prevail? This is something the industry needs to be united on. 

 

Let me just add that I am in favour of a commodity levy for the beekeeping industry. I think we desperately need a pot of money that can be used for research, marketing etc. 

[Kiwi Bee 589]

@Dennis Crowleydid anybody came up at those meetings with the idea of having a levy on the price of the honey per kg?

 

i.e. - if the cheapest honey on the market has a price of $6/kg then use a levy of 5c/kg

      - if a different type of honey has the market price at $30/kg then use a levy of 25c/kg(five times bigger price per kg equals five times bigger levy/kg)

      - if a producer is a good business person too and sales his/her honey for $6.50/kg the levy will be 5.41c/kg. It will be calculated by starting from the cheapest price on the market in that year.

The more expensive honey is still the winner as it makes a better profit for the producer, however it sound more "equal" and fair to have a levy per price of a kg of the honey.

[Kiwi Bee 589]

I wrote before reading Gino's post.

Yes a levy per sale it will be the best.

And the levy can be added to the invoice just like the GST.

[jamesc 4,900]

9 hours ago, glynn said:

Also how much of the levy will go on shiny bums ie is it true that %3 is going to science but %2 of that 3 is going to someone's salary so only %1 of the levy will be on actual scientific research? 

I'm asking because so far I've been told that I'm a cowboy I need to pay more it's going to happen anyway so suck it up .

We went through this when apinz was formed we were told that we needed this it's for every beekeeper big or small so far not seen it sorry.

 

You is gonna need abigger hat to be a cowboy....

 

[Dennis Crowley 1,351]

10 hours ago, glynn said:

Also how much of the levy will go on shiny bums ie is it true that %3 is going to science but %2 of that 3 is going to someone's salary so only %1 of the levy will be on actual scientific research? 

I'm asking because so far I've been told that I'm a cowboy I need to pay more it's going to happen anyway so suck it up .

We went through this when apinz was formed we were told that we needed this it's for every beekeeper big or small so far not seen it sorry.

 

Totally wrong almost 40% if levy is earmarked for science and no salary mentioned. Don’t make stuff up, go to the meetings and get the facts

[tommy dave 1,184]

who can vote? Producers of honey that is extracted in New Zealand for commercial use to September 2018.

 

Might be time to go drop a frame of honey to a commercial beekeeper for them to use in some commercial manner => that would render me eligible to have a vote unless the wording used on the apinz website is poorly chosen.

[Harlan Cox 107]

I've yet to decide whether I'm for or against. As Dennis Cowley suggests I'll be going to meetings and doing more research before deciding which way to vote. A couple things jump to mind however.

1) we already pay plenty of levy in the way of tax to our government. I know the government has plenty of bills to pay, health care, social welfare, education etc etc which I really value. However isn't it also their job to use our tax dollars to support industry, R&D and the like to grow their tax base?

2) RMP operators proposed to be tax collectors. Will they be compensated for the extra time,  effort  and costs?

3)If I were to support a levy I think paying it when the honey is sold is fair. IMO taxing it during extraction, then leaving beekeepers to find a market for the lower value honey, honey dew and the like, is a bit rough.

 

Just a few thoughts, on the flip side our industry does need more funding for all sorts of R&D, market access and the like. I guess the question for me is should government fund that or industry. Will the levy be tax deductible?  so many questions.. Guess I'd better get researching and rsvp my local meeting..

[Bushy 264]

22 minutes ago, tommy dave said:

who can vote? Producers of honey that is extracted in New Zealand for commercial use to September 2018.

 

Might be time to go drop a frame of honey to a commercial beekeeper for them to use in some commercial manner => that would render me eligible to have a vote unless the wording used on the apinz website is poorly chosen.

 

No need to do that. All NZ registered Beekeepers must get voting papers (I believe they will be sent out in October beekeeper magazine). 

Attached to the voting papers will be a statutory declaration on how much honey you produced. Just state you extracted 5kg and you are an official voter.

 

I know the industry needs funding, but it also needs integrity. This levy could have some positive outcomes, but it is also a fight for industry control.

 

A stated goal under why ApiNZ needs this levy is " to secure and strengthen Apiculture New Zealand as the peak body for the apiculture industry".

 

NZ Beekeeping Inc is also providing a very valuable "industry good" service to their members.

 

 

[Gino de Graaf 1,030]

4 hours ago, Otto said:

Your maths is slightly out - 15c out of $100 is 0.15%

LOL, just a bit. 

[Ali 546]

2 hours ago, Bushy said:

A stated goal under why ApiNZ needs this levy is " to secure and strengthen Apiculture New Zealand as the peak body for the apiculture industry".

Then woe and betide the smaller operator! The mighty 37 (or so) will own the industry through Api NZ who can then decide it's course with pretty much impunity.

Do you really fancy tendering (bidding) for the hive rights in an area? Quota type structure looms!

They are arrogantly assuming a mandate which they do not have. 

Trying to impose compulsory fees/membership is the most despicable way to operate and a blatant attempt at assuming control whilst building an empire for the few.

[Gerrit 215]

2 hours ago, Bushy said:

 

No need to do that. All NZ registered Beekeepers must get voting papers (I believe they will be sent out in October beekeeper magazine). 

Attached to the voting papers will be a statutory declaration on how much honey you produced. Just state you extracted 5kg and you are an official voter.

 

I know the industry needs funding, but it also needs integrity. This levy could have some positive outcomes, but it is also a fight for industry control.

 

A stated goal under why ApiNZ needs this levy is " to secure and strengthen Apiculture New Zealand as the peak body for the apiculture industry".

 

NZ Beekeeping Inc is also providing a very valuable "industry good" service to their members.

 

 

 

I agree mostly with this, but also want to acknowledge that a levy paid for the industry good should preferably be collected by a true representative body of commercial beekeeping; a levy of 10 ct/kg of honey, as it is proposed, is a levy on commercial beekeepers only. With that in mind, I think Apinz is not the right vehicle at the moment. Only 4 out of 10 board members are true commercial beekeeper representatives. I am not saying that I am against a levy, but I am concerned of what is going to happen to it, as I am not sure the right people will look after it at Apinz and it will be utilised for the benefit of beekeeping only.

 

Also I will not agree with the proposed way of collecting the levy. I do contract extraction, but don't want to charge my clients this levy. The honey is not mine, so compliance to pay the levy should be with the owner of the honey and he should make the payment. I think it is unethical to put that pressure on me. The owner of the honey should declare the quantity of honey he has and not me.

[yesbut 6,230]

36 minutes ago, Gerrit said:

Also I will not agree with the proposed way of collecting the levy. I do contract extraction, but don't want to charge my clients this levy. The honey is not mine, so compliance to pay the levy should be with the owner of the honey and he should make the payment. I think it is unethical to put that pressure on me. The owner of the honey should declare the quantity of honey he has and not me.

Good luck with that argument.  We GST registered folk are already unpaid tax collectors. The precedent is there.

[Gerrit 215]

7 minutes ago, yesbut said:

Good luck with that argument.  We GST registered folk are already unpaid tax collectors. The precedent is there.

 

Don't quite agree with that. We declare with our GST return what we got in and went out re our business, not somebody else's.

[tom sayn 1,261]

the fairest way to finance would be over the landowner fees. obviously these are only paid where profit is made (at least over longer time frames).

 

to collect money of low value honey on top of all what's happening right now is like selling a passenger on the already sinking titanic a ticket (with "first class" extra fee.)

 

[Kiwi Bee 589]

@Gerritcan I ask how much the total cost for RMP in a year? Are there any factors that will make it more or less $$$(size of the building/room, quantity of processed/extracted honey)?

[Ali 546]

In essence ApiNZ does not have the support of the vast majority of beekeeping enterprises.

They have failed to attract this support for a lot of reasons.

Largely they have failed sadly in their bid.

So they now wish to assume control of the majority of the funding and force a very unwilling majority of beekeeping enterprises to bow to them.

Control by the gun at the head (old fashioned gunboat diplomacy?). 

Come to our meetings or we will just blow you out of the water.

I wonder if ApiNZ have any idea how much of a disservice they have done their future possible support from the majority of beekeepers!

[Gerrit 215]

7 minutes ago, Kiwi Bee said:

@Gerritcan I ask how much the total cost for RMP in a year? Are there any factors that will make it more or less $$$(size of the building/room, quantity of processed/extracted honey)?

For us: including auditing, verification (including ED's) plus annual RMP fee to MPI just under $5K (ex gst). This is not very depending on size, only when you get really big you might pay a bit more. We are only extracting, not exporting product. These are just RMP related costs, does not include testing and does not include any of my time or anything else.

[frazzledfozzle 7,483]

10 hours ago, Dennis Crowley said:

Totally wrong almost 40% if levy is earmarked for science and no salary mentioned. Don’t make stuff up, go to the meetings and get the facts

 

I’m still waiting on an email.

if I didn’t belong to this forum I wouldn’t even know about a levy or a meeting.

how many other beekeepers are in the dark.

if ApiNZ aren’t going to notify all beekeepers this will affect then how can it be voted on. 

[frazzledfozzle 7,483]

Quote

 

 

A stated goal under why ApiNZ needs this levy is " to secure and strengthen Apiculture New Zealand as the peak body for the apiculture industry".

 

Wow really ! 

[Kiwi Bee 589]

4 hours ago, Gerrit said:

For us: including auditing, verification (including ED's) plus annual RMP fee to MPI just under $5K (ex gst). This is not very depending on size, only when you get really big you might pay a bit more. We are only extracting, not exporting product. These are just RMP related costs, does not include testing and does not include any of my time or anything else.

 

Thank you @Gerrit. The reason I asked is to make an idea if it is worth from a reasonable size to get the RMP and extract my own honey. This way I pay the levy when I "extract". And I will not extract if I do not have a buyer.

[Jean MacDonald 525]

I think I would be looking at what "extract" means from a business and legal standpoint. To extract means to "pull out with skill" it takes not much skill to have at it with a serving spoon but for those who filter, cream, heat and so forth that takes skill and the right, rather expensive, equipment so when is honey officially "extracted". I would think that would be when it is in the container of sale. When is this levy expected to be declared? At the end of the financial year? Mid year? Sounds like the bee "small holder" is going to be quietly choked with the paperwork of compliance. 

[glynn 1,517]

13 hours ago, Ali said:

In essence ApiNZ does not have the support of the vast majority of beekeeping enterprises.

They have failed to attract this support for a lot of reasons.

Largely they have failed sadly in their bid.

So they now wish to assume control of the majority of the funding and force a very unwilling majority of beekeeping enterprises to bow to them.

Control by the gun at the head (old fashioned gunboat diplomacy?). 

Come to our meetings or we will just blow you out of the water.

I wonder if ApiNZ have any idea how much of a disservice they have done their future possible support from the majority of beekeepers!

Just remember a non vote counts as a yes vote.

Seams like there not a lot of information that's forthcoming I miss heard the 1 percent @Dennis Crowley maybe you could answer some of the questions being asked rather than just replying to mine which is a mile wong. How much will go to pay office critters how much will go to real work in scientific research? Why do you believe ApiNZ should be responsible for the leveys when over half the board are not the people paying but have a stake in the industry. 

I'm asking as I have not received any information from the people trying to collect the leveys other than go to meetings but if I wasn't shown buy others when the meeting where on how would I know.

 

[glynn 1,517]

20 hours ago, jamesc said:

You is gonna need abigger hat to be a cowboy....

 

Going to need a lot of things soon a hat is a long way down the list

[frazzledfozzle 7,483]

It’s all pretty dodgy to me.

if industry is to vote on a levy but only a small percentage of beekeepers are notified  then that’s straight out dishonest. 

As usual it’s the producer that gets ripped off with having to pay this levy on top of all the other testing fees etc. 

And as usual the middleman who profits most from our hard work  pays nothing.

 

I can imagine there will be all sorts of people putting their hand out for so called “research” money,

Most importantly and above everything else is the fact that we still haven’t been notified is anyone else still waiting for notification?

what is ApiNzs game ?