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Which way do I vote on the honey levy ?


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14 minutes ago, Gino de Graaf said:

The Apinz website has a case study.  Horticulture NZ levy.  

That Levy is 15 cents on every $100 of sales.  1.5%

Note, on Sales, not harvest. 

And a flat rate of 1.5% for every 100.  It's proportional.  

 

Your maths is slightly out - 15c out of $100 is 0.15%

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Given ApiNZ do not represent the majority of bee keeping enterprises the above is no surprise. @ApiNZ Science & Research perhaps you can offer some insight as to how it is ApiNZ feel so free

Thanks for the answer. in you initial post you said  “our key stakeholders have made it clear that they wish to see a more united and engaged industry” what I’m asking is who are these already

It has occurred to me , and correct me If I am wrong , that a lot of the issues with modern bee keeping are caused by over stocking . Caused by modern corporate bee keeping practices , who now wa

I do however fully agree with the maths on a "simple" system of 10c per kg of honey produced. This will get a lots of beekeepers that produce lower value honey anti the proposed levy because they will very rightly feel they are paying more that their share. The levy needs to be a flat percentage on actual sales (as in Gino's example). Why come up with a proposal that is immediately going to cause a them versus us mentality to prevail? This is something the industry needs to be united on. 

 

Let me just add that I am in favour of a commodity levy for the beekeeping industry. I think we desperately need a pot of money that can be used for research, marketing etc. 

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@Dennis Crowleydid anybody came up at those meetings with the idea of having a levy on the price of the honey per kg?

 

i.e. - if the cheapest honey on the market has a price of $6/kg then use a levy of 5c/kg

      - if a different type of honey has the market price at $30/kg then use a levy of 25c/kg(five times bigger price per kg equals five times bigger levy/kg)

      - if a producer is a good business person too and sales his/her honey for $6.50/kg the levy will be 5.41c/kg. It will be calculated by starting from the cheapest price on the market in that year.

The more expensive honey is still the winner as it makes a better profit for the producer, however it sound more "equal" and fair to have a levy per price of a kg of the honey.

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9 hours ago, glynn said:

Also how much of the levy will go on shiny bums ie is it true that %3 is going to science but %2 of that 3 is going to someone's salary so only %1 of the levy will be on actual scientific research? 

I'm asking because so far I've been told that I'm a cowboy I need to pay more it's going to happen anyway so suck it up .

We went through this when apinz was formed we were told that we needed this it's for every beekeeper big or small so far not seen it sorry.

 

You is gonna need abigger hat to be a cowboy....

 

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10 hours ago, glynn said:

Also how much of the levy will go on shiny bums ie is it true that %3 is going to science but %2 of that 3 is going to someone's salary so only %1 of the levy will be on actual scientific research? 

I'm asking because so far I've been told that I'm a cowboy I need to pay more it's going to happen anyway so suck it up .

We went through this when apinz was formed we were told that we needed this it's for every beekeeper big or small so far not seen it sorry.

 

Totally wrong almost 40% if levy is earmarked for science and no salary mentioned. Don’t make stuff up, go to the meetings and get the facts

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who can vote? Producers of honey that is extracted in New Zealand for commercial use to September 2018.

 

Might be time to go drop a frame of honey to a commercial beekeeper for them to use in some commercial manner => that would render me eligible to have a vote unless the wording used on the apinz website is poorly chosen.

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I've yet to decide whether I'm for or against. As Dennis Cowley suggests I'll be going to meetings and doing more research before deciding which way to vote. A couple things jump to mind however.

1) we already pay plenty of levy in the way of tax to our government. I know the government has plenty of bills to pay, health care, social welfare, education etc etc which I really value. However isn't it also their job to use our tax dollars to support industry, R&D and the like to grow their tax base?

2) RMP operators proposed to be tax collectors. Will they be compensated for the extra time,  effort  and costs?

3)If I were to support a levy I think paying it when the honey is sold is fair. IMO taxing it during extraction, then leaving beekeepers to find a market for the lower value honey, honey dew and the like, is a bit rough.

 

Just a few thoughts, on the flip side our industry does need more funding for all sorts of R&D, market access and the like. I guess the question for me is should government fund that or industry. Will the levy be tax deductible?  so many questions.. Guess I'd better get researching and rsvp my local meeting..

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22 minutes ago, tommy dave said:

who can vote? Producers of honey that is extracted in New Zealand for commercial use to September 2018.

 

Might be time to go drop a frame of honey to a commercial beekeeper for them to use in some commercial manner => that would render me eligible to have a vote unless the wording used on the apinz website is poorly chosen.

 

No need to do that. All NZ registered Beekeepers must get voting papers (I believe they will be sent out in October beekeeper magazine). 

Attached to the voting papers will be a statutory declaration on how much honey you produced. Just state you extracted 5kg and you are an official voter.

 

I know the industry needs funding, but it also needs integrity. This levy could have some positive outcomes, but it is also a fight for industry control.

 

A stated goal under why ApiNZ needs this levy is " to secure and strengthen Apiculture New Zealand as the peak body for the apiculture industry".

 

NZ Beekeeping Inc is also providing a very valuable "industry good" service to their members.

 

 

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36 minutes ago, Gerrit said:

Also I will not agree with the proposed way of collecting the levy. I do contract extraction, but don't want to charge my clients this levy. The honey is not mine, so compliance to pay the levy should be with the owner of the honey and he should make the payment. I think it is unethical to put that pressure on me. The owner of the honey should declare the quantity of honey he has and not me.

Good luck with that argument.  We GST registered folk are already unpaid tax collectors. The precedent is there.

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7 minutes ago, yesbut said:

Good luck with that argument.  We GST registered folk are already unpaid tax collectors. The precedent is there.

 

Don't quite agree with that. We declare with our GST return what we got in and went out re our business, not somebody else's.

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the fairest way to finance would be over the landowner fees. obviously these are only paid where profit is made (at least over longer time frames).

 

to collect money of low value honey on top of all what's happening right now is like selling a passenger on the already sinking titanic a ticket (with "first class" extra fee.)

 

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7 minutes ago, Kiwi Bee said:

@Gerritcan I ask how much the total cost for RMP in a year? Are there any factors that will make it more or less $$$(size of the building/room, quantity of processed/extracted honey)?

For us: including auditing, verification (including ED's) plus annual RMP fee to MPI just under $5K (ex gst). This is not very depending on size, only when you get really big you might pay a bit more. We are only extracting, not exporting product. These are just RMP related costs, does not include testing and does not include any of my time or anything else.

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10 hours ago, Dennis Crowley said:

Totally wrong almost 40% if levy is earmarked for science and no salary mentioned. Don’t make stuff up, go to the meetings and get the facts

 

I’m still waiting on an email.

if I didn’t belong to this forum I wouldn’t even know about a levy or a meeting.

how many other beekeepers are in the dark.

if ApiNZ aren’t going to notify all beekeepers this will affect then how can it be voted on. 

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4 hours ago, Gerrit said:

For us: including auditing, verification (including ED's) plus annual RMP fee to MPI just under $5K (ex gst). This is not very depending on size, only when you get really big you might pay a bit more. We are only extracting, not exporting product. These are just RMP related costs, does not include testing and does not include any of my time or anything else.

 

Thank you @Gerrit. The reason I asked is to make an idea if it is worth from a reasonable size to get the RMP and extract my own honey. This way I pay the levy when I "extract". And I will not extract if I do not have a buyer.

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I think I would be looking at what "extract" means from a business and legal standpoint. To extract means to "pull out with skill" it takes not much skill to have at it with a serving spoon but for those who filter, cream, heat and so forth that takes skill and the right, rather expensive, equipment so when is honey officially "extracted". I would think that would be when it is in the container of sale. When is this levy expected to be declared? At the end of the financial year? Mid year? Sounds like the bee "small holder" is going to be quietly choked with the paperwork of compliance. 

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13 hours ago, Ali said:

In essence ApiNZ does not have the support of the vast majority of beekeeping enterprises.

They have failed to attract this support for a lot of reasons.

Largely they have failed sadly in their bid.

So they now wish to assume control of the majority of the funding and force a very unwilling majority of beekeeping enterprises to bow to them.

Control by the gun at the head (old fashioned gunboat diplomacy?). 

Come to our meetings or we will just blow you out of the water.

I wonder if ApiNZ have any idea how much of a disservice they have done their future possible support from the majority of beekeepers!

Just remember a non vote counts as a yes vote.

Seams like there not a lot of information that's forthcoming I miss heard the 1 percent @Dennis Crowley maybe you could answer some of the questions being asked rather than just replying to mine which is a mile wong. How much will go to pay office critters how much will go to real work in scientific research? Why do you believe ApiNZ should be responsible for the leveys when over half the board are not the people paying but have a stake in the industry. 

I'm asking as I have not received any information from the people trying to collect the leveys other than go to meetings but if I wasn't shown buy others when the meeting where on how would I know.

 

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It’s all pretty dodgy to me.

if industry is to vote on a levy but only a small percentage of beekeepers are notified  then that’s straight out dishonest. 

As usual it’s the producer that gets ripped off with having to pay this levy on top of all the other testing fees etc. 

And as usual the middleman who profits most from our hard work  pays nothing.

 

I can imagine there will be all sorts of people putting their hand out for so called “research” money,

Most importantly and above everything else is the fact that we still haven’t been notified is anyone else still waiting for notification?

what is ApiNzs game ?

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