Which way do I vote on the honey levy ?

[yesbut 6,230]

As a hobbyist I have no financial interest in the proposed honey commodity levy, nor do I have any interest in joining ApiNZ.

I'd like some direction please from those with skin in the game as to which way they would like me to exercise my right to vote.

[Otto 780]

I don't think you get a vote...

 

Quote from the Apiculture NZ website (https://apinz.org.nz/proposed-levy-investment-programme/#voting):

 

"Who can vote?

Producers of honey that is extracted in New Zealand for commercial use to September 2018."

[milkandhoney 184]

@Otto is correct. You only get a vote if you produce honey commercially. Upside: if you produce honey for yourself there is no extra cost. 

 

Quote: Who is eligible to vote and what is the voting process? • All New Zealand producers of honey extracted for commercial use in the 12 months to 30 September 2018 • Under the Commodity Levies Act, Apiculture New Zealand must demonstrate over 50% industry support for the introduction of a commodity levy. A result in favour of the commodity levy will occur if: - the ‘YES’ votes equal more than half of all votes cast, AND - the total kilograms of honey produced by those who voted ‘YES’ equals more than half of the total amount of honey produced by all those who voted

[jamesc 4,900]

I think you become  a fence sitter ..... the monkey that gathers up a few of the fallen peanuts ..... and jumps screaming and scratching your armpits at the injustice of it all .... I dunno to be honest ..... as a hobbyist you are'nt in it for the money so will just pay up and smile as you crack the lids .... after all ,the price is forgotten long after the quality, or something like that .  

[yesbut 6,230]

31 minutes ago, Otto said:

I don't think you get a vote...

One day I might learn to read thoroughly.  I wonder how they'll know I don't indulge in commercial extraction. I suppose I'll find out in October.

Edited August 2, 2018 by yesbut

[glynn 1,517]

So the big boys with the big tonnage have a bigger shear of the vote ?

[Trevor Gillbanks 6,846]

59 minutes ago, glynn said:

So the big boys with the big tonnage have a bigger shear of the vote ?

Yes.  As it has always been

[yesbut 6,230]

1 hour ago, glynn said:

So the big boys with the big tonnage have a bigger shear of the vote ?

I don't see how you can definitively state that from the above. 

[glynn 1,517]

Ok so just re-read the legalese they need 50 percent of votes and they have to produce 50 percent of the honey sold.

Which considering it sits easier with Manuka hunters would be a given.

[Trevor Gillbanks 6,846]

1 hour ago, glynn said:

Ok so just re-read the legalese they need 50 percent of votes and they have to produce 50 percent of the honey sold.

Which considering it sits easier with Manuka hunters would be a given.

Not quite @glynn

They need 51% of those who do vote 10 be in favour of the levy increase.  So if only 10 people vote then they only need 6 to vote in favour to carry the increase.

It is a numbers game and this is how they trick you in to thinking you can win.  The cards are stacked.

Remember, they have said that only people who had honey extracted at an RMP premises , is eligible to vote.  So pretty much all hobbyists and small commercials automatically get dropped out.

 

Edited August 3, 2018 by Trevor Gillbanks

[glynn 1,517]

So anyone that has a stake needs to be asking questions and (not going to get into trouble for swearing again so add your own)

VOTE

[Philbee 4,675]

What a joke

Im a reasonable sized player with a solid stake in the industry through various income streams yet because Im big enough to decide not to sell any Honey last season I dont get a vote.
Its just one vote  so that wont tip the vote but it does demonstrate the ineptitude of the organization.

Never mind Ill just keep making money while sitting on a fortune Lol

[Dennis Crowley 1,351]

Nothing is in stone yet, go to the meetings and listen and then have your say. The board has chosen honey sales, if the majority want a levy but a different amount per kg or a different option on what is levied then we have to listen. But first things first go to the meetings please. Don’t jump to conclusions, come and listen n then make up your mind which way to vote. Go read the levy act, only those paying the Levi get to vote on where/how it is spent, if a hobbyist sells a drum of honey he gets levied and the right to a say just as commercial. We all pay the same rate no matter how big or small our operations are if we sell honey. (Now I’ve used honey here because to illustrate, as I said if the majority want another option to levy then we would listen) If it is a no vote the status quo remains and we go on complaining about the freeloaders, lack of research, us n them etc etc. which would make this forum boring as we would have to accept that’s what we wanted and have nothing to complain about. Just to open and transparent, I have always said I want a levy and everyone no matter how big or small to pay the same price, as I believe that each persons business is just as important to them as the next persons no matter the size, and went on the board of both NBA and APINZ with that as my reason for standing.

Go to the meetings and have your say before making up your mind please.

[frazzledfozzle 7,483]

I still haven’t received an email regarding the meetings is anyone else still waiting ? 

@Dennis Crowley it’s all very well to want everyone to pay the same price per kg of honey but 10c kg is too much for those not getting Manuka honey. 

In my opinion it’s completely unfair.

i also want to know why the levy is on honey which means many businesses won’t be paying a levy at all because they make their money from bees in other ways.

Edited August 3, 2018 by frazzledfozzle

[glynn 1,517]

Also how much of the levy will go on shiny bums ie is it true that %3 is going to science but %2 of that 3 is going to someone's salary so only %1 of the levy will be on actual scientific research? 

I'm asking because so far I've been told that I'm a cowboy I need to pay more it's going to happen anyway so suck it up .

We went through this when apinz was formed we were told that we needed this it's for every beekeeper big or small so far not seen it sorry.

 

[tom sayn 1,261]

Attention All Beekeepers - Call for action.  We need you. Apiculture NZ in conjunction with the AFB PMP are proposing unsustainable increases in levies and new revenue gathering Commodity Levies which will be closely followed by GIA Levies. RMP holders will be tax collectors for Apiculture NZ, all this while we are facing low honey prices and low production.  Facts Apiculture NZ classes all members of affiliated Beekeeping Clubs as supporters of their proposals. Drastically increasing AFB PMP levies to $50 per Apiary whilst continuing to turn a blind eye to large commercial entities not registering hives. Incompetent management of current AFB PMP board which can only be influenced by current members of Apiculture NZ (who are only a minority of Registered Levy Payers). WHAT CAN WE DO? We must act quickly and decisively..  As individuals, how can we do this. Write to Damien O'Connor the Minister of Agriculture (damien.oconnor@parliament.govt.nz) asking for the removal of the current AFB PMP board and Apiculture NZ removed as the Management Agency with an independent board directly selected by Levy Payers. If you are an Apiculture NZ member, resign your membership immediately (email ceo@apinz.org.nz) to reduce their claims of support for this levy. If you are a member of a Beekeeping Club, ask your Club immediately to resign its affiliation to Apiculture NZ. Ensure to cast a NO vote in the Referendum.  Failing to cast your vote is the equivalent of voting Yes. Please pass this message to all your Beekeeping Contacts and spread the word. Join us on our Facebook page @beekeepersagainstapitax to help fight these taxes.

anyone else received this?

[tom sayn 1,261]

there's something on facebook  @beekeepersagainstapitax (@mail.co)

was send to me as an email

[Otto 780]

7 hours ago, frazzledfozzle said:

I still haven’t received an email regarding the meetings is anyone else still waiting ? 

Where and when meetings are can be found here: https://apinz.org.nz/levy/

I only found this because I thought I'd go and look at the Apiculture NZ website to do some background reading on the proposed levy. I would certainly have preferred learning about the meetings by having received the information through email or other communication.

I'm assuming (@DennisCrowley - please correct me if I'm wrong) all Apiculture NZ members were sent this information? If so, why not beekeepers who are not members? The commodity levy will be charged to all of us so it is paramount that we're all fully informed about the proposal. 

 

9 hours ago, Trevor Gillbanks said:

Remember, they have said that only people who had honey extracted at an RMP premises , is eligible to vote. 

Is this what was said at conference? This differs from what the website states. Quoted from the website:

 

Who Pays?

All honey extracted in New Zealand for commercial use

 

Zero mention of RMP in the statement. I thought I would get a vote as I extract some honey and sell it to the local market but my honey does not go through an RMP facility (and there is no legal requirement for it to do so). I will go along to our local meeting and hope to learn a little more there...

[Otto 780]

7 hours ago, glynn said:

Also how much of the levy will go on shiny bums ie is it true that %3 is going to science but %2 of that 3 is going to someone's salary so only %1 of the levy will be on actual scientific research? 

I'm asking because so far I've been told that I'm a cowboy I need to pay more it's going to happen anyway so suck it up .

We went through this when apinz was formed we were told that we needed this it's for every beekeeper big or small so far not seen it sorry.

 

Please read more at the following website about the proposed levy, how it will be spent, managed, governed etc:

https://apinz.org.nz/proposed-levy-investment-programme/#input

[Gino de Graaf 1,030]

9 hours ago, Philbee said:

What a joke

Im a reasonable sized player with a solid stake in the industry through various income streams yet because Im big enough to decide not to sell any Honey last season I dont get a vote.
Its just one vote  so that wont tip the vote but it does demonstrate the ineptitude of the organization.

Never mind Ill just keep making money while sitting on a fortune Lol

 

My understanding- you have extracted honey so you get a vote.  Whether it is sold or not. Your one vote does help. 

[Gino de Graaf 1,030]

7 hours ago, frazzledfozzle said:

I still haven’t received an email regarding the meetings is anyone else still waiting ? 

@Dennis Crowley it’s all very well to want everyone to pay the same price per kg of honey but 10c kg is too much for those not getting Manuka honey. 

In my opinion it’s completely unfair.

i also want to know why the levy is on honey which means many businesses won’t be paying a levy at all because they make their money from bees in other ways.

 

Both my brother and I didn't receive an email either.  We got the information via the RMP extractor-  this is a not really good enough.  Seems like the RMP holders might have got the emails only?  

[kaihoka 2,975]

@Dennis Crowley do you think future bee keeping can support the level of organisational infrastructure being proposed to manage it .

The large numbers in the industry are only supported by Manuka . 

What if Aussie Manuka takes off and beeks start regularly getting $5 a kg for honey.

You will have lots of people leaving the industry and fewer and fewer people to support that infrastructure .

I think scientific research is a great idea .

Who does all the animal and crop research in NZ. 

Couldn't they do bee stuff there. 

That way all the public pay not just beeks .

[Gino de Graaf 1,030]

8 hours ago, Dennis Crowley said:

Nothing is in stone yet, go to the meetings and listen and then have your say. The board has chosen honey sales, if the majority want a levy but a different amount per kg or a different option on what is levied then we have to listen. But first things first go to the meetings please. Don’t jump to conclusions, come and listen n then make up your mind which way to vote. Go read the levy act, only those paying the Levi get to vote on where/how it is spent, if a hobbyist sells a drum of honey he gets levied and the right to a say just as commercial. We all pay the same rate no matter how big or small our operations are if we sell honey. (Now I’ve used honey here because to illustrate, as I said if the majority want another option to levy then we would listen) If it is a no vote the status quo remains and we go on complaining about the freeloaders, lack of research, us n them etc etc. which would make this forum boring as we would have to accept that’s what we wanted and have nothing to complain about. Just to open and transparent, I have always said I want a levy and everyone no matter how big or small to pay the same price, as I believe that each persons business is just as important to them as the next persons no matter the size, and went on the board of both NBA and APINZ with that as my reason for standing.

Go to the meetings and have your say before making up your mind please.

 

Hi Dennis.  Can you say what other methods of Levies Apinz considered?  I can see why the Levy was attached to the extracting - nice and simple, and good tracability via any Audits. 

There are a few commercial beekeeper such as yourself on the Board- Are you all Manuka honey producers? 

My main concern, shared with many others- proportionally I get taxed more for my non-manuka.  It's much easier to stomach 0.10 on $30 than on $10 or less. 

Not sure how you could Levy according to honey type- and I know, it's never going to be fair. What ever you choose. 

 

Could you Levy a percentage of sale price? 1% for instance.   That's then 8 cents a kilo on $8 or 30 cents on $30.  Then the Levy only gets paid on Sale, versus storing Unsold honey.  Paying a Levy on Unsold honey would be a pain.  The way the voting works would need to change also. 

 

We are automatically APInz members as soon as we pay the levy.  We need to Opt out if unwanted.  Would it be better if we needed to Opt in instead? As a default

This Levy is going to give APInz many more (willing?) members. 

 

And both my brother and I never received the Apinz meetings email.  How many others didn't receive it? 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Bushy 264]

12 minutes ago, Gino de Graaf said:

 

Both my brother and I didn't receive an email either.  We got the information via the RMP extractor-  this is a not really good enough.  Seems like the RMP holders might have got the emails only?  

 

Under the commodities levy act, everyone who produces the product being levied MUST be given the opportunity to vote.

If honey is to be levied, every person who produces honey MUST be given voting papers. Every voter will be required to sign a declaration as to how much of that commodity (honey) they produce.

Weather you have one hive or 50000 you are still eligible to vote.

 

How much money will be collected and how it will be collected are secondary points in discussion, and the basis of the road show

 

ApiNZ does not want every hobbiest in NZ voting because this is a bigger risk of a no vote occurring, so they will not tell you there is a legal opportunity to participate.

 

The only fair way a levy can be collected is for all funds to be placed in an independent trust like the Honey Trust Fund, which is then contestible by all research and industry bodies, and this avoids a large chunk of levy income being used to prop up ApiNZ administration.

 

Make the levy affordable, equitable, and managed completely independent of both ApiNZ and NZ Beekeeping and I might just about support it.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Gino de Graaf 1,030]

The Apinz website has a case study.  Horticulture NZ levy.  

That Levy is 15 cents on every $100 of sales.  1.5%

Note, on Sales, not harvest. 

And a flat rate of 1.5% for every 100.  It's proportional.  

 

Growers will pay the levy via levy collectors who will pay the levy to Horticulture New Zealand. Levy collectors (including: wholesalers, packhouses, auctioneers, brokers, produce distribution centres, retailers, and exporters and processors) buy fruit or vegetables from or sell fruit or vegetables on behalf of growers. In the case of sales direct to the public or grower-own exports or grower-own processing, growers will pay the levy directly to Horticulture New Zealand.