Honey industry like 'wild west', minister says

[Ali 527]

I'm not wanting to be involved in rumours either but it would be no surprise to me and I suspect many others if the 60 thousand were in the hands of the big C in one guise or another e.g. Kiwi Bee and others.

The scourge of local small operators in my opinion.

[jamesc 3239]

On 29/07/2018 at 2:41 PM, Bighands said:

Suits you James

Renegades Retreat.

[kevin moore 625]

7 hours ago, glynn said:

We do our own 

same with us,

[Maru Hoani 322]

On 29/07/2018 at 2:52 PM, Philbee said:

If you use Oxalic Paper Tape Staples just once this season you will easily save the $4500 difference and plus have better Bees out the other side.
 

I just put in $5500 of Apivar and when that comes out bayvarol goes in during the Manuka flow which is another 5500 where do you buy italic paper staples?

[frazzledfozzle 6914]

6 minutes ago, Maru Hoani said:

I just put in $5500 of Apivar and when that comes out bayvarol goes in during the Manuka flow which is another 5500 where do you buy italic paper staples?

 

Bayvarol is only supposed to be used as an emergency treatment with honey supers on not holis-bolis  

 

[frazzledfozzle 6914]

A levy on honey an increase in AFB levy probable costs for testing honey for AFB and we haven’t even got to the proposed GIA and the levy that will be placed on us to join In that particular rabble. 

All off the back of $4.50 honey

 

Good times 

 

 

Edited August 1, 2018 by frazzledfozzle

[M4tt 4796]

40 minutes ago, Maru Hoani said:

paper staples?

@Philbee makes them 

[Gino de Graaf 631]

1 hour ago, Maru Hoani said:

I just put in $5500 of Apivar and when that comes out bayvarol goes in during the Manuka flow which is another 5500 where do you buy italic paper staples?

 

What's the time frame for Api and then Bay?  Seems an overkill?  I am guessing that Bayvarol goes straight in after the Apivar (manuka flowering October onwards). 

 

And what about Autumn?  

[Philbee 4542]

1 hour ago, Maru Hoani said:

I just put in $5500 of Apivar and when that comes out bayvarol goes in during the Manuka flow which is another 5500 where do you buy italic paper staples?

Trademe service classified 1215737669

Contact me through that and if you get enough of them Ill shout you a site donation so you can then message me for more in future

[Maru Hoani 322]

On 1/08/2018 at 6:45 PM, Gino de Graaf said:

 

What's the time frame for Api and then Bay?  Seems an overkill?  I am guessing that Bayvarol goes straight in after the Apivar (manuka flowering October onwards). 

 

And what about Autumn?  

Second week of August onwards, and you have to double treat prior to the flow and double oxalic the sites that are still breaking down.

Out in the wild west if you want 500boxes from 700 hives. It's majorly overstocked and hives constantly breaking down. And most of my sites are light up in red on the apiweb.

[Maru Hoani 322]

On 1/08/2018 at 6:48 PM, Philbee said:

Trademe service classified 1215737669

Contact me through that and if you get enough of them Ill shout you a site donation so you can then message me for more in future

Can they go in during the honey flow? 

I'm keen to use on my next treatment, I'm just flat broke at the moment with only enough money for essentials until I get some more of my outstanding invoice. (So far been payed 10%)

[yesbut 5528]

14 minutes ago, Maru Hoani said:

(So far been payed 10%)

Keep on top of that one mate.

[Mark K 15]

Mention Baycorp, that might hurry things along.

 

[Ali 527]

1 hour ago, Maru Hoani said:

(So far been payed 10%)

Are they doing a schedule of payments? 1/3 + 1/3 + 1/3 or just holding out?

[Gino de Graaf 631]

1 hour ago, Maru Hoani said:

Second week of August onwards, and you have to double treat prior to the flow and double oxalic the sites that are still breaking down.

Out in the wild west if you want 500boxes from 700 hives. It's majorly overstocked and hives constantly breaking down. And most of my sites are light up in red on the apiweb.

 

Geez. what's going on up there? Are neighbouring hives mite bombs?

Do you test before and after treatments?

 I just can't understand why you treat with Apivar then straight to Bayvarol.  Surely, you could achieve a treatment free period between placements.

What do you do in the Autumn? 

From the costings you mentioned ($5500) for Apivar and 700 hives you place 2-3 apivar soon

Then ($5500) of bayvarol = 4 strips per hive- which is light on dosage as the hives would be getting quite strong. 

You dribble or vapour ox? 

 

For spring I use 4 Apivar as late as possible- try for October but earlier if I have to.   This is to treat and protect hives during Kiwifruit pollination October/November. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Gino de Graaf 631]

2 hours ago, Maru Hoani said:

Can they go in during the honey flow? 

I'm keen to use on my next treatment, I'm just flat broke at the moment with only enough money for essentials until I get some more of my outstanding invoice. (So far been payed 10%)

Good luck, 

You shopped around selling your honey last season, and as I remember got a reasonable price.  Like other members, are your payments coming as you expect or far too slowly?  

[Philbee 4542]

4 hours ago, Maru Hoani said:

Can they go in during the honey flow? 

I'm keen to use on my next treatment, I'm just flat broke at the moment with only enough money for essentials until I get some more of my outstanding invoice. (So far been payed 10%)

Its probably time a few details of these Staples were publicly explained
These Staples are available as an absorbent laminated paper device that can absorb and contain up to twice their own weight in various liquids
These various liquids include Glycerine and dissolved Oxalic Acid
They are sold as a device that a beekeeper can use to slowly administer their own treatment substances under an exemption in the ACVM Regulations 2011.

Exemption 2 of Schedule 2 of the ACVM Regulations 2011 

This exemption sets out various conditions that must be met when a Beekeeper makes a Treatment for a Hive, including Hives that produce Honey for sale.
There are four main issues or conditions that must be met by the Beekeeper.

Their treatment must be for their own use

No treatment can contain an ingredient that is listed on the prohibited substance list and the Beekeeper, in designing a treatment, must ensure that their treatment does not contaminate their Honey with harmful residues.

The treatment must be safe for those involved in its manufacture and use.

 

So, If a Beek decides to use these Staples, what they are doing is setting about making their own treatment for their own use under Exemption 2 of Schedule 2 of the ACVM Regulations 2011  based on Knowledge acquired.   

The first step then is due diligence.
Can he make a treatment that doesn't contain a prohibited substance?

Can he make a treatment that wont leave harmful residues in the Honey?

Can he make a treatment that is effective (fit for purpose)?

Can he make his treatment or organise  the making of this treatment safely.

 

He will as part of this due diligence read through various publications and made enquirers related to the subject and educated himself with the necessary information that will enable him to form an executable plan.

That plan may may well include the purchase of Dry Paper Tape Staples and organising a safe and effective means of impregnating them with the solution of his choice

 

That choice may well be Oxalic Acid and Glycerine at a solution strength that is least likely to cause any residues in the Honey. 

 

Based on his Due diligence the beekeeper decides whether to proceed or retreat.

 

So if a beek contacts me, he or she cannot expect me to say "Sure, I will supply you with a Treatment"

I will say "Sure, I can supply you with Paper Tape Staples"

I may even offer to help the Beek achieve their goal but they will be in the driving seat.
If they cannot rise to this challenge then they should retreat.

 

 

 

Edited August 4, 2018 by Philbee

[Philbee 4542]

Maru
In cases of genuine hardship there is no reason why any Beek should now see their Bees go untreated.
As a group we now have the means  to ensure this.
It doesnt cost a lot to read, read and enquire

[Maru Hoani 322]

3 hours ago, Gino de Graaf said:

 

Geez. what's going on up there? Are neighbouring hives mite bombs?

Do you test before and after treatments?

 I just can't understand why you treat with Apivar then straight to Bayvarol.  Surely, you could achieve a treatment free period between placements.

What do you do in the Autumn? 

From the costings you mentioned ($5500) for Apivar and 700 hives you place 2-3 apivar soon

Then ($5500) of bayvarol = 4 strips per hive- which is light on dosage as the hives would be getting quite strong. 

You dribble or vapour ox? 

 

For spring I use 4 Apivar as late as possible- try for October but earlier if I have to.   This is to treat and protect hives during Kiwifruit pollination October/November. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

In some areas yes, I lost 12/12 at one site, the other half a km in had lost 4/12 and further in there were no losses from my other sites. 

 

I vaporize ox, some sites showed 30-40 mites in some hives, when I vaporize a second time a few weeks later there were another 30-40 mites! And that was after 3 synthetic treatments last season

 

[Philbee 4542]

2 minutes ago, Maru Hoani said:

In some areas yes, I lost 12/12 at one site, the other half a km in had lost 4/12 and further in there were no losses from my other sites. 

 

I vaporize ox, some sites showed 30-40 mites in some hives, when I vaporize a second time a few weeks later there were another 30-40 mites! And that was after 3 synthetic treatments last season

 

How many Hives are you running?

[Maru Hoani 322]

7 minutes ago, Philbee said:

How many Hives are you running?

Just over 700

[Maru Hoani 322]

1 hour ago, Philbee said:

Maru
In cases of genuine hardship there is no reason why any Beek should now see their Bees go untreated.
As a group we now have the means  to ensure this.
It doesnt cost a lot to read, read and enquire

 

4 hours ago, Ali said:

Are they doing a schedule of payments? 1/3 + 1/3 + 1/3 or just holding out?

I don't know??? Maybe everyone's just struggling

[Maru Hoani 322]

On 1/08/2018 at 5:24 PM, frazzledfozzle said:

 

Bayvarol is only supposed to be used as an emergency treatment with honey supers on not holis-bolis  

 

It is an emergency when you lose a whole site. The season before last season I put my apivar in May then used bayvarol in July so there were no treatments in while the Manuka flow was on, this season I held back and ended up losing 20+ hives

[Maru Hoani 322]

6 hours ago, yesbut said:

Keep on top of that one mate.

There's only so many times you can ring and email asking before it turns into a moan

[Philbee 4542]

13 minutes ago, Maru Hoani said:

Just over 700

Well Maru
If you sat down and read the entire Oxalic Acid and Glycerine Thread it might take you 3 hours plus another couple of hours to go over it again and learn the basics of treating with Oxalic Acid and Glycerine.
You might then ask around a bit, maybe email Randy Oliver about his view on residues etc.

From that you would probably have the Knowledge required to take control of the acquisition and manufacture of an Oxalic Acid / Glycerine treatment for your own use within the guidelines set out in Exemption 2 of Schedule 2 of the ACVM Regulations 2011 
From experience I can tell you that to treat 700 singles the total material cost would be approx $1600+gst

700 mixed singles and doubles would probably cost you $2100+ gst and in the unlikely event you ran 700 doubles that might cost something like $2700+gst
If you were able to demonstrate genuine hardship, then there may be genuine terms available.
But it all starts with the Beekeeper taking control of the solution