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Honey industry like 'wild west', minister says

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8 minutes ago, Trevor Gillbanks said:

No.  And they cheat a bit.  Our bee Club belongs to ApiNZ and we have 170 members.  ApiNZ claims they represent all those 170 beeks yet in real terms they only represent the club itself.

All other clubs in the country are in a similar situation.  I believe the actual membership of APiNZ is around the 600-700 mark and NZ Beekeeping has around 500 members.  How many hives this represents is unknown.

Thanks Trevor

Can anyone elaborate on what percentage of the Commercial Beekeepers they represent?

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23 hours ago, Frederick said:

Another point: As this NZR release reads more like a self justifying public discussion between the Minister and APINZ for our benefit re: Levying the industry at 10c / Kg can I ask the following:

  1. What budget / rational is APINZ working on to justify the Levy at any level?
  2. How are they going to protect us from whom and what?
  3. As the main protection to the Manuka Honey Industry seems to be originating from the UMF Association should we be looking towards them for rational input?

Give most organisations a grant and they'll spend it: Ask for a competitive budget for a defined task and I suggest you'll have a more acceptable outcome.

But then again do I want a group representing a broad cross-section of the industry and only a percentage of the small-medium sized commercial operations spending my money and on what?

 

On the simple basis that legislative standards surpass any organisational standards I would suggest that the greatest protection to the industry is currently the MPI Manuka Honey Science Definition. 

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3 minutes ago, Frederick said:

Thanks Trevor

Can anyone elaborate on what percentage of the Commercial Beekeepers they represent?

 

Those figures are not available to me.

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June 2017 MPI stats reported 7,814 registered beekeeping enterprises.

 

if Api NZ hold about 800 that is around what (?) 11% of all enterprises now railroading the 89%?

 

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3 minutes ago, nikki watts said:

Yes. I had one beek I know tell me that their budget for admin is around 50% of income. Feels like us beeks are providing a good salary for a few people.

I noticed in the budget the independent chair gets 50k, then there Karen’s salary which obviously  wasn’t disclosed.

I was impressed by The board members who only get 5k and then only if they meet budget. I believe they really are there for the good of the industry. The high salary earners I’m not so sure about. I know you have to pay market rates to have these executives but we all work dam hard, I’m sure for a lot less than them. 

Agree Nikki let's not query the genuineness or dedication of the executive/board of APINZ or the need for adequate admin expenses (if you want professional representation you should expect to pay)

But let's look at the manner in which this Levy is being bought to fruition under their banner: This is a  democracy and beekeeping's past is littered with groups and organisations thinking they know best and wanting to impose themselves on the entire industry.

I'm certainly less than sure this Levy (from left field) seemingly 'in my opinion' stemming from collusion between APINZ and the Minister is the best way to proceed.

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1 hour ago, glynn said:

The fonterra of the bee business.

Next step it to make sure we comply we must sell all honey to them.

It will be in the industries best interests of course although we will need to fund the selling of your honey so the levy we already have will need to go up the two supermarket chains have agreed to buy it at a good low price so we can concentrate on Manuka.

Funny thing is people where saying that this would happen a the birth of apiculture NZ and they got shot down

 

14 minutes ago, nikki watts said:

Yes. I had one beek I know tell me that their budget for admin is around 50% of income. Feels like us beeks are providing a good salary for a few people.

I noticed in the budget the independent chair gets 50k, then there Karen’s salary which obviously  wasn’t disclosed.

I was impressed by The board members who only get 5k and then only if they meet budget. I believe they really are there for the good of the industry. The high salary earners I’m not so sure about. I know you have to pay market rates to have these executives but we all work dam hard, I’m sure for a lot less than them. 

Not possible. There is far more honey produced in NZ the the two chains can purchase and sell. Domestic sales are a small part of the total. 

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1 minute ago, Adam Boot said:

 

Not possible. There is far more honey produced in NZ the the two chains can purchase and sell. Domestic sales are a small part of the total. 

Sorry I should of said domestic market.

Seems that the whole conference was about doing away with us small fry. The tech talks they where saying we need to get bigger to survive smaller beekeepers have no place in the new way and the new fee structure the talk from gov and others made me feel very uneasy

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Further to the above:

Quoting APINZ; ours is a $5 Billion dollar industry contributing directly to Pastoral farming clover pollination / nitrogen fixing, specialised crop seed crop pollination, stone and pip fruit pollination

This begs the question: What's the Minister/Government bringing to the table???????

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Even if they did have the membership of the 37% of beeks who hold 40% of all hives does this give them a mandate to claim control of all funding?

I say not! 

This is a hijack of the means of the other 63% who don't want to belong to Api NZ!

The proposals are outrageous on this basis.

They are being spin doctors if they even represent as much as 11% of beeks and are simply trying to stage a take over.

This needs airing in public!

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1 minute ago, glynn said:

Sorry I should of said domestic market.

Seems that the whole conference was about doing away with us small fry. The tech talks they where saying we need to get bigger to survive smaller beekeepers have no place in the new way and the new fee structure the talk from gov and others made me feel very uneasy

I would be disappointed to see the demise of the smaller beekeeper. There must be balance in the countries production and the artisan should always have a place. There is always value in quality and standards. Best practice is not always big practice. I would suggest that the smaller producers align them selves with quality brands and packers and become an essential part of their supply chain. 

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3 minutes ago, Ali said:

Even if they did have the membership of the 37% of beeks who hold 40% of all hives does this give them a mandate to claim control of all funding?

I say not! 

This is a hijack of the means of the other 63% who don't want to belong to Api NZ!

The proposals are outrageous on this basis.

They are being spin doctors if they even represent as much as 11% of beeks and are simply trying to stage a take over.

This needs airing in public!

If all of you with strong opinion fired an email to Stuff or NZME you would get a public airing 

 

 

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2 minutes ago, Adam Boot said:

I would be disappointed to see the demise of the smaller beekeeper. There must be balance in the countries production and the artisan should always have a place. There is always value in quality and standards. Best practice is not always big practice. I would suggest that the smaller producers align them selves with quality brands and packers and become an essential part of their supply chain. 

Good sentiments

The small-medium commercial beekeeper has been the backbone of the industry forever and their emotional attachment/affinity for the industry will ensure they're there for all time

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24 minutes ago, Adam Boot said:

I would suggest that the smaller producers align them selves with quality brands and packers and become an essential part of their supply chain. 

I've tried , but still no-one wants my 30 jars of willow..9_9

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41 minutes ago, Ali said:

Even if they did have the membership of the 37% of beeks who hold 40% of all hives does this give them a mandate to claim control of all funding?

I say not! 

This is a hijack of the means of the other 63% who don't want to belong to Api NZ!

The proposals are outrageous on this basis.

They are being spin doctors if they even represent as much as 11% of beeks and are simply trying to stage a take over.

This needs airing in public!

 

The Commodities Levy Act dictates what is required to get a yes vote, but it really is an exercise in statistical spin.

For levy to become reality, 50.1% of those people that VOTE, must say yes (remember number of people in industry has no relevance), and 50.1% of those that voted "yes" must represent 50.1% of the honey produced by all those that VOTED. (again total honey volume in NZ has no relevance).

 

In 2017 MPI reported 37 enterprises had 50% of all registered beehives in NZ.

 

Getting a yes vote might be easier for ApiNZ than many people think.

If this levy is going to be the best thing since sliced bread, let us digest it with real facts. If not, having your democratic vote recorded is really critical.

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57 minutes ago, Adam Boot said:

I would be disappointed to see the demise of the smaller beekeeper. There must be balance in the countries production and the artisan should always have a place. There is always value in quality and standards. Best practice is not always big practice. I would suggest that the smaller producers align them selves with quality brands and packers and become an essential part of their supply chain. 

Some of us do not want to be part of the suppy chain of marketers spin doctors ECT ECT.

I like talking to the person that will be using my products even if it just a email we have complete ownership and control of the suppy. With all the risks and benefits of such a deal.

Same with selling bees and queens I want to have that connection with our customers.

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1 minute ago, glynn said:

Some of us do not want to be part of the suppy chain of marketers spin doctors ECT ECT.

I like talking to the person that will be using my products even if it just a email we have complete ownership and control of the suppy. With all the risks and benefits of such a deal.

Same with selling bees and queens I want to have that connection with our customers.

I agree. Whoever you sell to you are part of that supply chain. Direct linkage e-mail or phone and face to face is essential. I am not quite sure what you mean by 'marketers spin doctors ECT ECT.' Whoever you supply has to sell the product somehow, somewhere and that does not usually happen without sales & marketing involved somewhere. 

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We do our own 

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2 minutes ago, glynn said:

We do our own 

 

2 minutes ago, glynn said:

We do our own 

Perfect scenario then. 

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For us yes for others no but I want and will fight for the right same with the levy increase we are getting herded like sheap to the works to all get in behind this. 

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1 hour ago, glynn said:

For us yes for others no but I want and will fight for the right same with the levy increase we are getting herded like sheap to the works to all get in behind this. 

I agree with you entirely

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2 hours ago, Bushy said:

In 2017 MPI reported 37 enterprises had 50% of all registered beehives in NZ.

@BushyI think the 2017 figures were 37% hold 40% of all registered hives not 50%.

 

It may be a little harder to get it through and they seem to only have a real mandate for around 11% of all registered beekeeping enterprises. All fair enough if new fees etc only apply to that 11% but we are looking at that 11% dictating to everyone through Api NZ! Tail wants to wag the dog.

They do not have a mandate of anything like the majority of beeks but are making a bid to take all. If it gets through look out! Compulsory membership fee of $86 is the very tip of the disaster.

Edited by Ali
spelling for the pink ones benefit
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25 minutes ago, Ali said:

@BushyI think the 2017 figures were 37% hold 40% of all registered hives not 50%.

 

It may be a little harder to get it through and they seem to only have a real mandate for around 11% of all registered beekeeping enterprises. All fair enough if new fees etc only apply to that 11% but we are looking at that 11% dictating to everyone through Api NZ! Tail wants to wag the dog.

They do not have a mandate of anything like the majority of beeks but are making a bid to take all. If it gets through look out! Compulsory membership fee of $86 is the very tip of the disaster.

 

Just looked up the MPI report to make sure my brain hadn't completely lost it, and we are both right and wrong.

actual wording is "almost 40% of hives are managed by 37 enterprises with the largest enterprise managing around 60000".

 

To be honest the actual number is less important than the fact that industry wide support is not required for this to potentially pass into law.

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Damien O'Connor made it sound like it was a done thing as for calling us cowboys using false facts and hot air from people who have other interests other than beekeepers... When a member of government says you should get on board if makes the hair on my neck stand on end 

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1 hour ago, Bushy said:

 

Just looked up the MPI report to make sure my brain hadn't completely lost it, and we are both right and wrong.

actual wording is "almost 40% of hives are managed by 37 enterprises with the largest enterprise managing around 60000".

 

To be honest the actual number is less important than the fact that industry wide support is not required for this to potentially pass into law.

Does it say who manages the 60,000?

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3 minutes ago, Adam Boot said:

Does it say who manages the 60,000?

 

No detail in MPI report. It could only be 2 or 3 potential companies, but personally I dont know and wont start rumours by guessing

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