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Document Varroa resistant bees coming soon!?

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On 17/07/2018 at 12:43 PM, Alastair said:

The bees we really may need are in Puerto Rico.

 

Around 30 years ago africanised "killer bees" arrived in the island of Puerto Rico, nobody knows how, maybe it was a swarm from a ship.

 

The new bees were resistant to varroa mites, but so aggressive nobody wanted to work them. All the same, they spread across the island.

 

Then an unexplained event happened, the bees went gentle. I have seen photos of Puerto Rican beekeepers working bees while wearing only a pair of shorts.

 

But the bees have retained the african feature of mite resistance, nobody in Puerto Rico has to treat for varroa any more.

 

Queens of the Puerto Rican bees have never been taken to any other country. This is a shame because they just may be the solution to the worlds problems. I suspect it may be because of the fear of africanised genes. But in my view, these bees must be preserved. Last year there was a devastating hurricane that destroyed nearly all buildings on Puerto Rico, blew down nearly all trees, and killed nearly all beehives. After the hurricane, the few surviving hives struggled to survive because of the damage to vegetation, there was nothing for the bees to forage on. It is feared that some, or much, genetics, may have been lost. There are a few people trying to do something about this, but to me, we need to get breeding populations established off the island.

 

Here is a link - https://news.illinois.edu/view/6367/579348

Aren't those bees forced into being polite by the monsoon season they have in the tropics? The short nectar flows mean that they need to produce all the foragers bees that they can. So the period the worker bees spend as guard bee (Africanized have a LOT of agressive guard bees) is curtailed, making those bees in general less defensive than African bees elsewhere. It may not be another island that I'm thinking of, rather than Puerto Rico. I can just remember watching something about it, and that was one explanation that the scientists had come up with. So...explanation...it may not have even be proven. 

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Who knows? However when africanised bees first arrived there they were agressive, then over a period of years it went away.

 

The theory proposed by the authors of a later study is that Puerto Rico has a dense human population and aggressive hives may have been killed by the people. Leaving hives with african genes, but the ones responsable for aggression replaced by european genes. They have backed that by actual genetic analysis of the bees.

Edited by Alastair

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my 2 cents worth, go and check tales of resistance first hand.

you will find that resistant is often talked up while the price for it is talked down.

"our bees don't die as fast anymore from varroa but only bring half the honey and sting like hell" doesn't make a head line.

 

.we all know how hard it is to requeen agrow hives and who goes around killing angry feral hives?

how ever, the temper may have calmed without human interference. not a risk i would recommend for nz. too many allergic kids that might have to pay the ultimate price.

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I am sure that hive density plays a part in how bees can cope with varroa .

I wonder if bee behaviour changes under population stress like rats does.

People who kept bees 40 years ago would be able to answer that . 

They would notice the changes.

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I have found a site which is miles away from anywhere.The nearest beekeeper is over 5 kms in a straight line.Now some of the bees I have at the moment are real mongrels.By this I mean not aggressive but inter bred.I have Amm, Italian and Carni crosses butI can work these without a smoker,gloves and sometimes with out a veil.Providing you can read the weather and think like a bee,no problem.

  now about breeding varroa tolerant bees who knows.I would not even think about breeding Varroa Resistant bees.Varroa tolreant,yes.What they will be who knows.

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On 15/07/2018 at 12:48 PM, ReneeJones said:

I am from the company spreading this email..

First we don't claim it can be only done in two seasons..that is what it takes for your own business...(have just spoken to him to suggest an edit) it does take quite awile to get it spread through the genes of the bees so would take a couple of years NZ wide.. basicly what my grandfather is trying to explain Is that you first need resistant queens laying in the hives.. then the next season you use a different strain of the resistant bee to breed with those previous drone stock from that previous season. Thus producing bees that are more resistant with each season and cycle.

We have been working on this resistance for about 5 years and I personally worked on the sugar shaking and data collection to see which hives gained more or less resistance after mating the Queens. . I know it may seem to good to be true but I emplore you to explore it further so you can make up your own mind. This has received a good review by Tony Roper from MPI but he is currently on leave so we cannot currently get him to do like a "peer review" for it..

This could be truly life changing for the bees.. not only in NZ but abroad.

Thanks 

Renee - I read the article about lack of funding and will write a paper (peer reviewed) for your grand-dad if you give me some data!

Cheers

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4 hours ago, Nigel said:

Renee - I read the article about lack of funding and will write a paper (peer reviewed) for your grand-dad if you give me some data!

Cheers

Seen your email today grandads going to get back to you.. he's also been talking with Tony Roper since he returned from holiday. AND possibly another beekeeper who has already got the bees in his hives.

Thanks look forward to hearing more from you

Renee

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On 20/07/2018 at 8:48 PM, Bighands said:

I have found a site which is miles away from anywhere.The nearest beekeeper is over 5 kms in a straight line.Now some of the bees I have at the moment are real mongrels.By this I mean not aggressive but inter bred.I have Amm, Italian and Carni crosses butI can work these without a smoker,gloves and sometimes with out a veil.Providing you can read the weather and think like a bee,no problem.

  now about breeding varroa tolerant bees who knows.I would not even think about breeding Varroa Resistant bees.Varroa tolreant,yes.What they will be who knows.

People seem to define it differently. . We say resistance because we don't get the diseases/ virus' from the Varroa but the Mites do still show up in the odd one.  They are removed from our breeding tester hives if they have anything wrong at all.. our bees are very nice.. I believe a cross but very very nice bees I work them in my pj shorts occasionally when a cold day turns hot. No veil no gloves for years.. so much I don't even own one lol 

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On 20/07/2018 at 5:33 PM, kaihoka said:

I am sure that hive density plays a part in how bees can cope with varroa .

I wonder if bee behaviour changes under population stress like rats does.

People who kept bees 40 years ago would be able to answer that . 

They would notice the changes.

My grandad has had bees since he was 12 he's now 83 .. so about 70 years he's been doing it.. I believe when we originally did the sugar shaking to find resistance... the higher might numbers the faster they collapsed. 

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1 hour ago, ReneeJones said:

My grandad has had bees since he was 12 he's now 83 .. so about 70 years he's been doing it.. I believe when we originally did the sugar shaking to find resistance... the higher might numbers the faster they collapsed. 

Has he noticed a change in bee behaviour with over stocking ?

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On 18/07/2018 at 10:06 AM, yesbut said:

Can you re-tell this in allegorical english please Dave ?

I think I got epistaxis from this thread. 

 

On 18/07/2018 at 1:24 PM, DavyK said:

 Dr Thomas Seeley (the Horace White Professor in Biology in the Department of Neurobiology and Behavior at Cornell University. The recipient of many honors and awards. He is the author of several books on honeybee behavior, including Honeybee Democracy (2010) and The Wisdom of the Hive (1995) [1] He was the recipient of the Humboldt Prize in Biology in 2001. He primarily studies swarm intelligence by investigating how bees collectively make decisions. He has studied wold Bees in remote locations that have learned to live with Varroa mite.) Many of his talks and lectures are on You-tube

According to him if we had done absolutely nothing about Varroa mite the Bees themselves would have sorted it out in 2 to 3 years. The problem for commercial Beekeepers is that they would have no income for that period of time while the Bees were sorting it out.

Quote from Dr Seeley " we use chemicals which produce stronger mites and weaker bees",

Quote from Dr Seeley; "In countries where they could not afford to treat for Varroa mite this is what has already happened."

It was indeed strongly suggested by the more learned at the time. Then that window of opportunity closed. For me Bayvarol still works but I follow the motto "if all else fails, read the instructions"

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Jean MacDonald

Tom Seeley mentioned this is a lecture at the 2017 National Honey Show in England and did not say anything about the window now being closed, apparently think you know more than he does. Just wondering what your credentials are, sarcasm and nose bleeds don't count.

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On 7/08/2018 at 5:53 AM, Jean MacDonald said:

I think I got epistaxis from this thread. 

 

It was indeed strongly suggested by the more learned at the time. Then that window of opportunity closed. For me Bayvarol still works but I follow the motto "if all else fails, read the instructions"

I usually end up following "if all else, fail to read the instructions".

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4 hours ago, Markypoo said:

I usually end up following "if all else, fail to read the instructions".

Lol yes I totally agree I put the comma in the wrong place but maybe if should be "If at first you don't succeed, accept your failure and consider your next move carefully". I'd tell my mum "I'm trying" and she would agree "Yes, you are very trying". Teachers eh ?

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9 hours ago, DavyK said:

Jean MacDonald

Tom Seeley mentioned this is a lecture at the 2017 National Honey Show in England and did not say anything about the window now being closed, apparently think you know more than he does. Just wondering what your credentials are, sarcasm and nose bleeds don't count.

 

Hello DaveyK I see you are a new member who has 15 posts so welcome to the forum. I just about missed your post so if you want to catch someones attention put "@" before their forum name. A drop down menu will appear with names but many are the same or simlar so triple check as you scroll down on this before pushing enter. I will proceed to answer your question shortly @DavyK . Currently there is rather a lot happening in the busy world of beekeeping so take some time to read thru the forum rules and some threads so as to get full benefit from the site. Before you start a 'keyboard war" it might pay to follow the i ching's advice and "know your enemy". As one awesome comic stated "'apparently' doth butter no cruskits"

So DavyK now your answer- Epistaxis joke referred to epistasis word in what the resident boffin wrote. I always feel I need a dictionary and well worth the effort when reading what he posts. Doesn't necessarily mean I agree but I do learn something.

Nosebleeds may occur in those who expend excessive effort or have raised blood pressure. I consider maintaining a sense of humour an essential ingredient to being a beekeeper. My credentials??? I am a beekeeper who now bids you adieu. There is also a block function on this forum which I have not needed to use too much here as not too easily offended. Wishing you well on the forum and with your bees.

@ReneeJones Apologies for your thread hijack. I hope you and/or your grandfather posts again. Would message you but you don't have that enabled as yet. Very interested and wishing you well and sorry for hijacking your thread. I suspect there would be an organised lynching at the next local club meeting if I were to enquire as to the availability of your stock. All the very best for the coming season.

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I've read through this thread a number of times because I am thrilled that somebody is trying to come up with a better idea/action, other than pouring yet more toxins into hives.

It just occurred to me that nobody has said.....Thank you!!

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13 minutes ago, mischief said:

I've read through this thread a number of times because I am thrilled that somebody is trying to come up with a better idea/action, other than pouring yet more toxins into hives.

It just occurred to me that nobody has said.....Thank you!!

What are we to be thankful for??

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1 hour ago, David Yanke said:

What are we to be thankful for??

The entertainment value of smoke and mirrors of course

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