Jump to content
Boot

Protecting Manuka - Purity, Quality, Authenticity

Recommended Posts

11 hours ago, Dennis Crowley said:

We all should just start to unpack all our groceries from all the plastic and packaging and leave it at the counter or at the door of the shop, let them deal with all the waste they create and then they may start to demand their suppliers start to cut down on the packaging

Isn’t that  what Germany does. 

  • Agree 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 20/07/2018 at 12:15 PM, Adam Boot said:

I am interested to understand why? The journey from hive to retailer to consumer is a long, complicated and expensive. If I can help fill in the gaps for you I will. 

 

Cheers 

 

Adam

Ah, The logistical nightmare thats about to get worse

Im not going to invest in an extraction shed because I believe the future will see them lose appeal in favor of mobile harvesting where we wont be hauling boxes and frames of Honey to and from extraction sheds and we will be taking boxes off hives, harvesting the honey and putting the box back on its correct hive

The resulting slurry will be separated and drummed at a basic wax separator /pumping station
This is the future

 

Edited by Philbee

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
41 minutes ago, Philbee said:

Ah, The logistical nightmare thats about to get worse

Im not going to invest in an extraction shed because I believe the future will see them lose appeal in favor of mobile harvesting where we wont be hauling boxes and frames of Honey to and from extraction sheds and we will be taking boxes off hives, harvesting the honey and putting the box back on its correct hive

The resulting slurry will be separated and drummed at a basic wax separator /pumping station
This is the future

 

Also, potentially less contaminates. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
8 hours ago, Philbee said:

Ah, The logistical nightmare thats about to get worse

Im not going to invest in an extraction shed because I believe the future will see them lose appeal in favor of mobile harvesting where we wont be hauling boxes and frames of Honey to and from extraction sheds and we will be taking boxes off hives, harvesting the honey and putting the box back on its correct hive

The resulting slurry will be separated and drummed at a basic wax separator /pumping station
This is the future

 

 

Yeah, though it's already here- one Harvester thing which sits on a bucket - which rips all the wax off also.  Losing all the wax is not ideal but simple enough.  I believe that you are tied into some kind of contract to supply the maker. I like the concept, not the supply agreement or the wax loss .

Logistically, taking boxes and stacking them on a pallet on vehicle is efficient.  With the harvester machine, you still have to lug heavy frames/boxes and buckets of honey.  

 

If you want to extract and keep the combs drawn- then good luck.  The gear you would need to haul close to sites is no small task and you also need to work off grid and have a fresh water supply.  Probably a RMP. 

It's all been done before. 

 

If returning gear to same hive is important, some kind of numbering/colour barrier system might work. 

 

  • Agree 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
9 hours ago, Philbee said:

Ah, The logistical nightmare thats about to get worse

Im not going to invest in an extraction shed because I believe the future will see them lose appeal in favor of mobile harvesting where we wont be hauling boxes and frames of Honey to and from extraction sheds and we will be taking boxes off hives, harvesting the honey and putting the box back on its correct hive

The resulting slurry will be separated and drummed at a basic wax separator /pumping station
This is the future

 

My journey was metaphoric. Unless change effects time, people and equipment positively the cost journey is unchanged. What is the cost gain from extraction in the field?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
12 minutes ago, Adam Boot said:

My journey was metaphoric. Unless change effects time, people and equipment positively the cost journey is unchanged. What is the cost gain from extraction in the field?

Firstly Adam, you might benefit  from some field work

If you follow a Honey super through its logistical journey you will be struck by the expense of that journey.
In the future, heavy transportation is going to be far more expensive than it is currently 

While  Urban commuters both personal and business  will be enjoying electric vehicles, industry will be stuck with current  technologies for a lot longer

The other issue is disease.
The cost of tracking Honey supers and getting them back onto their Hive of origin is  astonishing, a task that can only become viable as part of a new and improved logistical approach to Honey Harvesting.

Im also a fan of the lost wax harvesting method which is not everyone's cup of tea

 

Edited by Philbee

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Imagine the robbing you would be dealing with extracting in the field

  • Agree 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
24 minutes ago, Lindaloo26 said:

 

Yeah, though it's already here- one Harvester thing which sits on a bucket - which rips all the wax off also.  Losing all the wax is not ideal but simple enough.  I believe that you are tied into some kind of contract to supply the maker. I like the concept, not the supply agreement or the wax loss .

Logistically, taking boxes and stacking them on a pallet on vehicle is efficient.  With the harvester machine, you still have to lug heavy frames/boxes and buckets of honey.  

 

If you want to extract and keep the combs drawn- then good luck.  The gear you would need to haul close to sites is no small task and you also need to work off grid and have a fresh water supply.  Probably a RMP. 

It's all been done before. 

 

If returning gear to same hive is important, some kind of numbering/colour barrier system might work. 

 

One of the differences between myself and many other Beekeepers or anyone for that matter is that when I see a problem that stands in my way Im not automatically bound by conventional wisdom in solving that problem 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, frazzledfozzle said:

Imagine the robbing you would be dealing with extracting in the field

 

Just now, Philbee said:

One of the differences between myself and many other Beekeepers or anyone for that matter is that when I see a problem that stands in my way Im not automatically bound by conventional wisdom in solving that problem 

 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
10 minutes ago, Philbee said:

One of the differences between myself and many other Beekeepers or anyone for that matter is that when I see a problem that stands in my way Im not automatically bound by conventional wisdom in solving that problem 

I wish I could surmount the problem of saying what I feel like saying here without incurring the wrath of admin.....

  • Agree 2
  • Haha 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Philbee said:

Firstly Adam, you might benefit  from some field work

If you follow a Honey super through its logistical journey you will be struck by the expense of that journey.
In the future, heavy transportation is going to be far more expensive than it is currently 

While  Urban commuters both personal and business  will be enjoying electric vehicles, industry will be stuck with current  technologies for a lot longer

The other issue is disease.
The cost of tracking Honey supers and getting them back onto their Hive of origin is  astonishing, a task that can only become viable as part of a new and improved logistical approach to Honey Harvesting.

Im also a fan of the lost wax harvesting method which is not everyone's cup of tea

 

You make a great many assumptions both about myself and the future. I congratulate you on your psychic ability. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
55 minutes ago, yesbut said:

I wish I could surmount the problem of saying what I feel like saying here without incurring the wrath of admin.....

Possibly one reason is that I tend to say things that I genuinely believe to be relevant 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 minutes ago, Adam Boot said:

You make a great many assumptions both about myself and the future. I congratulate you on your psychic ability. 

That is rather cutting in IMO

Unlike you to date

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Philbee said:

One of the differences between myself and many other Beekeepers or anyone for that matter is that when I see a problem that stands in my way Im not automatically bound by conventional wisdom in solving that problem 

you know you're an interesting guy and I have followed your ideas,  though think highly of one self and said opinions.  Your response to my thoughts suggests that I am some square thinker.  

Plenty of times I have tried a more difficult way/path.  They don't always work and tend tie up emotional and physical energy- I can see why many follow the path well tread- but I don't believe them to be dumb.  They just know how to spend time/money wisely.  And are ready to address issues as they arise. 

Try seeing things from a few more angles. 

 

 

 

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, frazzledfozzle said:

Imagine the robbing you would be dealing with extracting in the field

Too right.  Bad enough doing the straight forward boxes off, imagine all that dripping honey.  And horrid nasty robbers.  They know how to sting. 

How's the conference going?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Believe it or not there is a beekeeper harvesting this way I worked a season with them a few years back, crazy stuff. They drive into the site with a couple of open drums on the back, and there is a steel blade on one of the drums. When they first told me they did this I said what about the robbing? They said oh there's no robbing we do it when the flow is still on.

 

Yeah right! When we did it, we had to kit up head to foot then go like mad trying to fill the drums as fast as possible then get the heck out of there. The video shows how it's done, this was the start. After that as the drum fills the robbing turns to fever pitch and there are literally thousands, probably tens of thousands, of bees drowning in the drum.

 

I never thought it would be possible for this honey not to ferment in storage, but it doesn't, these drums are stored weeks before they go to get spun out, only one actually fermented. Hate to think what the bacteria count would be though.

 

This is their own video off their facebook page.

 

 

 

Edited by Alastair
  • Like 1
  • Good Info 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
12 hours ago, Philbee said:

Ah, The logistical nightmare thats about to get worse

Im not going to invest in an extraction shed because I believe the future will see them lose appeal in favor of mobile harvesting where we wont be hauling boxes and frames of Honey to and from extraction sheds and we will be taking boxes off hives, harvesting the honey and putting the box back on its correct hive

The resulting slurry will be separated and drummed at a basic wax separator /pumping station
This is the future

 

Won't there be a robbing frenzy at the extraction site .?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
52 minutes ago, Alastair said:

Believe it or not there is a beekeeper harvesting this way I worked a season with them a few years back, crazy stuff. They drive into the site with a couple of open drums on the back, and there is a steel blade on one of the drums. When they first told me they did this I said what about the robbing? They said oh there's no robbing we do it when the flow is still on.

 

Yeah right! When we did it, we had to kit up head to foot then go like mad trying to fill the drums as fast as possible then get the heck out of there. The video shows how it's done, this was the start. After that as the drum fills the robbing turns to fever pitch and there are literally thousands, probably tens of thousands, of bees drowning in the drum.

 

I never thought it would be possible for this honey not to ferment in storage, but it doesn't, these drums are stored weeks before they go to get spun out, only one actually fermented. Hate to think what the bacteria count would be though.

 

This is their own video off their facebook page.

 

 

 

Looks like hard work as well. 

Artisan Honey?? - not very PC when public find out the thousands of deaths caused by drowning.  

Interesting though.  They still doing it this way?

  • Agree 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Yes still doing it that way. They present doing it this way as a positive, rather than all that "processing" that other beekeepers do.

 

And you are right, it is heckuva hard work.

 

The plus, is that the boxes go straight back on the hives, and you drive out of the site and it's job done, finished. The drums go to another beekeeper who has equipment, to get un crystalised and spun out.

Edited by Alastair

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 22/07/2018 at 10:17 AM, Lindaloo26 said:

Good idea, though the resources required to return to producer probably negates any positive environmental benefit. 

I reckon we should return packaging to the Market.  Return all empty no recyclable packaging to your super market, imagine things could change much quicker that way. 

Pak N Save ask YOU to take their empty cardboard away- very clever. 

That cardboard is great for starting the fire 

  • Agree 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6 hours ago, Lindaloo26 said:

you know you're an interesting guy and I have followed your ideas,  though think highly of one self and said opinions.  Your response to my thoughts suggests that I am some square thinker.  

Plenty of times I have tried a more difficult way/path.  They don't always work and tend tie up emotional and physical energy- I can see why many follow the path well tread- but I don't believe them to be dumb.  They just know how to spend time/money wisely.  And are ready to address issues as they arise. 

Try seeing things from a few more angles. 

 

 

 

 

 

My response to any question is often for the benefit of all those who read the question and then look at my answer as if the question was there's also.

So you the questioner are just one small consideration in my answer 

Initially at least, I didnt see you as a square thinker at all

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 hours ago, Alastair said:

Yes still doing it that way. They present doing it this way as a positive, rather than all that "processing" that other beekeepers do.

 

And you are right, it is heckuva hard work.

 

The plus, is that the boxes go straight back on the hives, and you drive out of the site and it's job done, finished. The drums go to another beekeeper who has equipment, to get un crystalised and spun out.

I already have a plan for this and am supported by another very wealthy friend who wants to be part of doing it a better way.
My plan doesn't look or work anything like that.
One of the major considerations is to keep the Bees out of the drums and Ive sorted that 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Phil you realise Revolutionary Beekeeping are already in this plus have a patent?

  • Agree 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6 minutes ago, Alastair said:

Phil you realise Revolutionary Beekeeping are already in this plus have a patent?

Yes

Those guys cant patent site extraction only their method and machines.
I could be scraping frames with a spatula, and Id like to see them challenge that.
The prior art is extensive 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

OK, be interested to see your design in due course.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now

×
×
  • Create New...