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Markypoo

Small cell foundation sources

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53 minutes ago, yesbut said:

I'm not quite either but i do keep a 20 litre of petrol for the freezer generator when the alpine fault goes

Got solar rechargeable lights, and some 12v lights I can hook up to the battery in my rideon. Aliexpress is a wonderful thing. They also make great lights for camping trips and fishing trips when we stay in huts down in fiordland. Can also use my solar electric fence charger to top them up. Got a 2kw genny off Mitre 10 for $350 last year.  We have gas hot water and cooking, as well as a wood stove for heating.

 

Got a few 5kg bags of rice stored away in airtight containers. Cheaper than buying chook food (only paid $1 a kg) and will do to keep the dogs and chooks full for an extended period even if we don't need it. We are at the stage that we can eat only food grown on our farm for days on end (main meal components I mean - lamb, chicken, eggs, veges) Orchard getting into gear and maybe some honey this season. Just the fact that we save so much money is reason enough, especially since the kids moved out (junior is 6 foot 3 and could eat a loaf of bread a day in sandwiched). We also swap mutton for bacon. 

 

Wasn't so long ago that this area had heavy snow fall and no power for a week. I also had to travel to CHCH  with supplies to help out my family a few years ago. If the alpine fault goes, life down here could be severely disrupted for months, if not years. Let alone any climate induced catastrophes or major aftershocks. Now I have a lot of useful toys to play with and feel a bit more prepared.

 

EDIT- I think I am  a prepper!

Edited by Markypoo

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25 minutes ago, Markypoo said:

If the alpine fault goes, life down here could be severely disrupted for months, if not years. 

 

 

You might find yourself living up here all of a sudden !

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3 hours ago, Markypoo said:

I am not quite a prepper but I am building up an emergency kit. 

 

I am a prepper but the trick is to understand what preparations are important

Being freehold is important as is having electrical knowledge and some old school diesels vehicles which can run on rough diesel
Guns and Ammo are good for shooting meat and trading.
Ill end up soon with a few ton of OA and GL 
A stock of new waxed frames and some box timber.
Solar panel knowledge is important also.

Probably the most important prepping asset is a diverse network of smart people 

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1 hour ago, Philbee said:

I am a prepper but the trick is to understand what preparations are important

Being freehold is important as is having electrical knowledge and some old school diesels vehicles which can run on rough diesel
Guns and Ammo are good for shooting meat and trading.
Ill end up soon with a few ton of OA and GL 
A stock of new waxed frames and some box timber.
Solar panel knowledge is important also.

Probably the most important prepping asset is a diverse network of smart people 

and don,t forget your flag pole, your not a real prepper if you dont have one

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19 minutes ago, Dennis Crowley said:

and don,t forget your flag pole, your not a real prepper if you dont have one

 Yeah, you got to have something to hang looters from when the SHTF.

 

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1 hour ago, Philbee said:


Ill end up soon with a few ton of OA and GL 

I have a 500g bag of oxalic acid. Should last about 5 years, depending on how much I spill!

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12 hours ago, Markypoo said:

Not sure why you doubt me. Email Ecrotek and ask them yourself. They said they don't normally order them in but they had some left over from a large order. About 240.

 

There won't be a zombie apocalypse. The biology just won't work. But the 28 Days later rage virus? A possibility. A global pandemic. Sure.

 

I personally am much much more concerned about abrupt climate change and what changing weather patterns will bring. Even the modest predictions are scary. Some are downright terrifying. I am not quite a prepper but I am building up an emergency kit. 

 

Got bees because my cherry and plum trees were extremely poorly pollinated. 8 cherries in total from 3 trees last year!  Orchard expanding to include pears, apples, feijoas, nashis, raspberries, blackberries, currants and peaches so hives should help.

 

Clearly you have never been in Palmerston North on a Thursday night as they emerge in varying degrees of undress on the coldest nights of the year with eyes that appeared smudged with a black substance and either tooter or sway their way to or from town walking into tin fences with monotonous regularity as they have lost their ability to walk in a straight line. To them of course the enraged roar of an exasperated house dweller at 2 am is just "being mean to us"

But I digress as main interest in food production or at least teaching the next generation valuable skills. Future proffing for climate change bit of a head scratcher since it's not "global warming" per se but stalled weather systems and unusual weather events fed by changes in sea temperature causing ocean currents to change. Creating protected microclimates to diversify crops and extend growing season seems to be the go. I'm planning on having some fun with aquaponics (good way to show the nitrogen cycle) and something called the Kratky method. The goal is cucumbers which I just don't have much luck with. 

Sorry for doubting you and as for global pandemic what would we do without antibiotics? What options are available should a scientist release "the kraken". Ah the importance of handwashing lol. Still remember a teacher with petri dishes showing us what dirty little creatures we really were

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22 hours ago, Jean MacDonald said:

remember a teacher with petri dishes showing us what dirty little creatures we really were

I do too . Back in the days when we relied on our immune systems to be naturally kick started and boosted , which seemed to work well 

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1 hour ago, M4tt said:

I do too . Back in the days when we relied on our immune systems to be naturally kick started and boosted , which seemed to work well 

I was raised on a poultry farm and got plenty of dirt when I was young. I am allergic to nothing. My wife was raised by a clean freak who wiped everything down with bleach and disinfectant. She is allergic to everything and has asthma. A link scientifically proven.

 

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I used to think my kids survived in spite of me but maybe it was because of me after all .:6_smile:

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Hi Markypoo,

Just wondered how your educational SC trial went.

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1 hour ago, mischief said:

Hi Markypoo,

Just wondered how your educational SC trial went.

I decided foundationless was more a goer. I have set up a kenyan topbar and a tanzanian topbar. Both are going extremely well.

I also set up some foundationless frames in my langs. I am not worried about a good harvest, but I wanted wax. Foundationless worked well.

I am still interested in the whole varroa resistent bee thing. The data is there to show it works. But I don't have enough hives to do it myself. Maybe one day I will try it.

 

 

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19 minutes ago, Markypoo said:

The data is there to show it works

In a tightly controlled beecosystem, but is there data from the real world ?

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9 hours ago, yesbut said:

In a tightly controlled beecosystem, but is there data from the real world ?

I assume by the real world you mean commercial enterprises? Or just anything outside a research site? There is a stack for both. Do a search for breeding varroa resistant bees. Thats all you need to do. You will find many hours of reading. Including peer reviewed papers. Even Randy Oliver's site.

Its all out there and it there is plenty of evidence that it works. Sometimes it seems to produce quite aggressive bees but there is some UK stuff that looks promising.

But OA staples seem to negate the need to breed for resistance. Though come the apocalypse we might undergo rapid natural selection for varroa resistance.

 

 

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48 minutes ago, Markypoo said:

Do a search for breeding varroa resistant bees. Thats all you need to do. You will find many hours of reading. Including peer reviewed papers. Even Randy Oliver's site.

I'd rather waste my life working on a  motorcycle.

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Posted (edited)
7 hours ago, Markypoo said:

I assume by the real world you mean commercial enterprises? Or just anything outside a research site? There is a stack for both. Do a search for breeding varroa resistant bees. Thats all you need to do. 

 

Mark the experiment you want to see has already been done. Real world, large scale, right here in NZ.

 

In this thread you have promoted several theories. One is that varroa resistant bees can be bred. Another is that small cell foundation can defeat varroa. Another is that allowed to build their own natural comb, bees will downsize to small cell. All of these theories that you have tipped your hat to, have been done, right here.

 

How? Back before varroa mites got here there were many wild hives. Nobody knows how many but 200,000 + has been estimated. In anycase, let's just say there were a lot of them. Back then, hives could live years untended. Some or these wild hives had been around for decades. They built their own natural comb. So if it's true bees allowed to build their own comb downsize to small cell, these hives would have been small cell. If it's true small cell defeats varroa, these hives would have defeated varroa.

 

Looks like the experiment "failed". Cos when varroa got here, all these hives died. Lock, stock, and barrel.

Edited by Alastair
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15 minutes ago, Alastair said:

 

Mark the experiment you want to see has already been done. Real world, large scale, right here in NZ.

 

In this thread you have promoted several theories. One is that varroa resistant bees can be bred. Another is that small cell foundation can defeat varroa. Another is that allowed to build their own natural comb, bees will downsize to small cell. All of these theories that you have tipped your hat to, have been done, right here.

 

How? Back before varroa mites got here there were many wild hives. Nobody knows how many but 200,000 + has been estimated. In anycase, let's just say there were a lot of them. Back then, hives could live years untended. Some or these wild hives had been around for decades. They built their own natural comb. So if it's true bees allowed to build their own comb downsize to small cell, these hives would have been small cell. If it's true small cell defeats varroa, these hives would have defeated varroa.

 

Looks like the experiment "failed". Cos when varroa got here, all these hives died. Lock, stock, and barrel.

Yeah, small cell is a bit of dead end I think.  And as I quite clearly stated, I went foundationless so I could harvest the wax.

As far as varroa resistant bees, of course the wild hives died out with a new parasite arriving. But did any check to see if some held out longer than others? I think not.

So do you discount all the worldwide work that has been going on with varroa resistance? Is Randy Oliver wasting his time?

Now I don't know what the study was you mentioned, but I can find a link about a possible study that Mark Goodwin wanted to start up. The link is from 2016 so clearly the study would still be going if it did get started.

When I read a peer reviewed paper, detailing selection and breeding of varroa resistant bees, it is clear that it can be done. These papers are not fakes, they are legitimate studies or reviews.  

Here are just a fraction of the links I found.

https://aristabeeresearch.org/program/

https://www.apidologie.org/articles/apido/pdf/2010/03/m09127.pdf

https://www.apidologie.org/articles/apido/pdf/2010/03/m09147.pdf

https://beecare.bayer.com/media-center/beenow/detail/breeding-varroa-resistant-honey-bees

 

And here is a NZ example, http://www.beesmartbreeding.co.nz/services/queen-breeding/

 

I am going to quite happily use my staples to treat the varroa. Someone with more cash and resources than me will have to be the one to develop varroa resistant or varroa tolerant bees. 

 

But anyway, I shall go home to my worm resistant sheep, and wander amongst my leaf curl resistant peach trees and ponder on the possibility of one day having varroa resistant bees.

 

 

 

 

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I am sure you will never see varroa resistant bee.You will see varroa tolerant bees.Think about Apis Cerana where the varroa came from, they are tolerant not resistant

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2 hours ago, Markypoo said:

So do you discount all the worldwide work that has been going on with varroa resistance?

 

No.

 

As per BigHands, there are varroa tolerant bees. However if they could just be bred as easily as some literature leads some new 1/2 dozen hive people like yourself to believe, we would all be doing it.

 

 

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Posted (edited)
3 hours ago, Markypoo said:

So do you discount all the worldwide work that has been going on with varroa resistance? Is Randy Oliver wasting his time?

I don't think there's any argument that VR Queens are around . It's just that how do you maintain that gene line in the wider population ?

The only way I can think of that would have any chance of success would be for us all to stop treating. 

Edited by yesbut

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1 hour ago, yesbut said:

I don't think there's any argument that VR Queens are around . It's just that how do you maintain that gene line in the wider population ?

The only way I can think of that would have any chance of success would be for us all to stop treating. 

It's just that how do you maintain that gene line in the wider population ?

Long story Short Pink Cat, you cant and never will.
Nature has designed it that way so that no one line has a quick and easy path to the top of the pile

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Correct, if you treat how can you tell if the bee is tolerant or not.To do this vhs queen stuff you need a closed breeding program or drones from those hives and we have not got that to the best of my knowlege

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That is part of the issue in NZ. We have the densest bee population in the world, it is a virtual impossibility to isolate a line.

 

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2 hours ago, Alastair said:

 

No.

 

As per BigHands, there are varroa tolerant bees. However if they could just be bred as easily as some literature leads some new 1/2 dozen hive people like yourself to believe, we would all be doing it.

 

 

If you read my post carefully, you will see that I am perfectly well aware that a 1/2 dozen hive person like myself cannot do it. I understand the New Zealand experience is different from overseas in that varroa is a relatively recent arrival. I also don't believe it is easy. I have read Randy Olivers stuff, as well as others. It takes many years and many dead bees to accomplish. I haven't stated that it is easy so I am not sure where you are getting that from. If it was easy for a 1/2 dozen hive person like myself to do it, I would be and marketing them appropriately. But I am really not interested in an online battle so I will declare you victor and move on.

 

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Hmm i think my post came off way harsher than i meant it, apologies. 

 

At the beginning of the thread you referred people to google etc, and the wealth of material that beguiles people into thinking that breeding a varroa resistant bee is as easy as just stop treating them. 

 

I know, because i once bought into it as well. I wasted a lot of time, and lot of bees, and a lot of money, attempting to breed a varroa resistant bee. 

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