Breeding black queens

[kaihoka 2,975]

@john berry how does wasp tolerance express its self .

Does it mean the bees are generally more aggressive .

[Jose Thayil 577]

2 hours ago, tom sayn said:

 

not every primosky showed significant resistance. but they don't need to, cos they multiply by swarming like rabbits. as long as more survive than die the population is stable.

if they would have managed to establish somewhere in the ranges, they had the potential to become a true pest in nz, swarmy as they were.

breeding all sorts of problems out of them while maintaining their varroa resistance? not sure how good you are, but it doesn't look like anyone had much luck with that or you would hear from it.

 

Russian bees are added to a lot of the commercial bee populations in the US to give them varroa tolerance. Yes as a pure race they may not be of any value for commercial beekeeping but they surely can add value to the already developed commercial stock. 

 

Coming from an area with good winters, I don’t think swarming was their only way of managing varroa. 

 

Even from the nasty AMM we have selected and added good traits to our commercial bees, so we should not completely discard Russian bees because they have some bad traits. 

 

As as far as I know they do not take over an area like the AMM used to. So there is no chance of them establishing a pure population in the ranges. The best what would happen is a hybrid population of our commercial bee with some good and bad traits. And if they do establish a feral hybrid population then they surely would have added their varroa tolerance in that population for them to survive. 

[David Yanke 470]

41 minutes ago, Jose Thayil said:

 

Russian bees are added to a lot of the commercial bee populations in the US to give them varroa tolerance. Yes as a pure race they may not be of any value for commercial beekeeping but they surely can add value to the already developed commercial stock. 

 

Coming from an area with good winters, I don’t think swarming was their only way of managing varroa. 

 

Even from the nasty AMM we have selected and added good traits to our commercial bees, so we should not completely discard Russian bees because they have some bad traits. 

 

As as far as I know they do not take over an area like the AMM used to. So there is no chance of them establishing a pure population in the ranges. The best what would happen is a hybrid population of our commercial bee with some good and bad traits. And if they do establish a feral hybrid population then they surely would have added their varroa tolerance in that population for them to survive. 

Well said.

[john berry 5,636]

10 hours ago, kaihoka said:

@john berry how does wasp tolerance express its self .

Does it mean the bees are generally more aggressive .

No. It's a trait that can be selected for and doesn't appear to be related to aggression at all. If wasps are bad enough they will kill any hive but if you continually select from survivors you end up with a strain that can sustain a reasonable level of wasp attack. Wasps attack the most susceptible hives first and the less susceptible highs you have the less chance they have of gaining a foothold. We once got some beautiful Italian queens from Northland but even moderate wasp numbers just wiped them out.
 

[tom sayn 1,261]

how do carnies cope with wasps?

you'd think german wasps are a problem in germany, but actually they are much more of a problem here.

(also nobody calls them german wasps there)

[yesbut 6,230]

4 minutes ago, tom sayn said:

you'd think german wasps are a problem in germany

Being an original natural part of the ecosystem probably helps

[tom sayn 1,261]

it's the mild winters and the honey dew that makes them so bad here.

[tom sayn 1,261]

that's why i could see the priomsky bee becoming a pest here  too

[yesbut 6,230]

4 minutes ago, tom sayn said:

it's the mild winters and the honey dew that makes them so bad here.

And no predator

[Jose Thayil 577]

4 hours ago, tom sayn said:

that's why i could see the priomsky bee becoming a pest here  too

 

Primorsky bees ( Russian bees ) are not a separate or new type of bee. They are the same type of bees what we have which have been taken to the Far East of Russia before they went through selective breeding. Genetic studies show they are hybrids of Italian, Carniolan and Caucasian bees.

 

They were taken to an area where Apis cerana naturally excited and had varroa. The bees were left to survive on their own and some of them found a way to survive by developing traits to fight against varroa. 

 

These are the trait which are so valuable to us which can benefit our existing bees. 

 

Russian bees are not something new to become pest. It’s just mellifera bees which has not gone through any selection process and has survived. 

[tom sayn 1,261]

5 hours ago, yesbut said:

And no predator

they have no predator in germany neither. only one stupid enough to f with them are humans.

[David Yanke 470]

5 hours ago, tom sayn said:

how do carnies cope with wasps?

you'd think german wasps are a problem in germany, but actually they are much more of a problem here.

(also nobody calls them german wasps there)

carnica are generally more wasp tolerant, at least I think so.  I am not sure what the Germans call them, but they are Vespula germanica.  The reason they are not such a big problem in Germany is because they don't have Italians!  Kidding, the real reason is that they are an introduced species here with no pests and a favourable environment.  They evolved in Europe, and as @yesbut said they are a natural part of the ecosystem there, and they do have pests(like parasitic wasps) and diseases that help keep them in check.

[tom sayn 1,261]

10 minutes ago, David Yanke said:

 The reason they are not such a big problem in Germany is because they don't have Italians!  Kidding,

nice to see you haven;t lost your humor, Dave.

well, the germans call them just "wasps". i actually thought they are called "common" wasps. but germanica  rings a bell. or are they different again?

 

[john berry 5,636]

There is an old and valued English tradition of naming things we don't like after a country we don't like at the time. German measles, Spanish flu et cetera. Apparently most European countries did the same thing.

[Markypoo 515]

Californian thistle or Canadian thistle depending on where you are.

 

[Philbee 4,675]

I got an email from a customer today about Staples and he has previously purchased 50 of my Cross bred mongrel Queens.

Here is a Copy/ paste of part of his email
Not bragging, just sayin

"Quote"

so can you please send to ######## Mainfrieght & I can collect from there.    Will need to increase hive numbers this season so you will probably hear from me during summer, Had a great run so far with the Queens I got season before last from you,   produce far more than the Italians which are very rare now in my apiaries.

Edited July 10, 2018 by Philbee

[Markypoo 515]

On 10/07/2018 at 12:12 PM, Philbee said:

Had a great run so far with the Queens I got season before last from you,   produce far more than the Italians which are very rare now in my apiaries.

 

I am surprised you are allowed to post something positive about bees with  carniolan genetics. Doesn't seem to be the done thing on this site.

[yesbut 6,230]

And their proper grey colour is great.

[Philbee 4,675]

1 hour ago, Markypoo said:

 

I am surprised you are allowed to post something positive about bees with  carniolan genetics. Doesn't seem to be the done thing on this site.

These particular Queens were from the year before last and were real striped tigers

This last season my Queens were a lot more yellow with dark tips

I make a point of not making any claims about Queens, other than been for example well fed or from large mating Nucs etc
 

[Jose Thayil 577]

Leather coloured Italians and Carniolans have done well for me in Hamilton. Maybe it’s to do with the climate but I found the most yellow coloured bees not doing very well here. They all do well in summer but during our winter which is very wet damp with some frost the very light coloured bees seem to consume a lot of stores and come down with more diseases and pest issues. 

 

I am not saying very light Italians are bad, they are not well suited for Waikato weather in my experience. 

 

 

 

[frazzledfozzle 7,483]

10 hours ago, Jose Thayil said:

Im not saying very light Italians are bad, they are not well suited for Waikato weather in my experience. 

 

So how did you get on before the introduction of Carnies?

seems weird to me that people have problems with queens/ bees /going by the colour of them only since the introduction of Carnies .

lord knows how you all ran your hives pre carnie. 

 

 

 

 

[Bighands 1,064]

Using AMM how else

[frazzledfozzle 7,483]

49 minutes ago, Bighands said:

Using AMM how else

 

I doubt it very much 

[kaihoka 2,975]

when i first got bees i read up about characteristics  and thought that carniolans would the best for me.

but in reality they weren't , so my bees have got yellower.

but i think there are places where carniolans would be the best choice.

[Jose Thayil 577]

2 hours ago, frazzledfozzle said:

 

So how did you get on before the introduction of Carnies?

seems weird to me that people have problems with queens/ bees /going by the colour of them only since the introduction of Carnies .

lord knows how you all ran your hives pre carnie. 

 

 

 

 

 

We had different lines of Italians even before the Carniolan came here. The ones which were a bit darker seemed to work better than the really light coloured ones. And once we had Carniolans they also seemed to work well here. 

 

As I said before these are the ones which has worked for me here in the Waikato weather. That doesn’t mean the very light coloured Italians won’t work elsewhere. They may work better than the darker Italians and Carniolans in other areas.