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Breeding black queens


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At the risk of upsetting a few of you, I am querying about breeding carniolans.

 

I am a new beekeeper and running italians on my lifestyle block and carnis at school (at the request of the principal, a beekeeper, because of their behaviour). I have been impressed this winter. While my italians are sulking in their hive after a -2 frost, as the soon as the sun is up the carnis are out gathering pollen.

 

I have discussed queen rearing with my classes. Some of the students in my senior agriculture class asked how I could make sure I didn't accidentally select for italian genetics. I had explained about mating flights and mating with multiple drones. They understand that the queens we have a pure carni but open mated so are producing a mix of pure carni and half italian offspring . 

 

The solution they came up with, as we are open mating, is to rear up several queens and only keep the blackest ones, to ensure a high proportion of carniolan genetics, and buy in Daykel queens every second or third year. Even though we will only be able to afford the Daykel commercial queens which I understand are pure carni but open mated.

 

Does this sound reasonable way to do it?

 

Mark Bennett

Mountainview High School

Timaru

 

 

 

 

 

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There is no real goals in mind. As I said I am impressed that on sunny days, even at a high of 9 degrees, we can see carniolans flying about.  They also seem very placid compared to italians.  Althoug

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37 minutes ago, Markypoo said:

The solution they came up with, as we are open mating, is to rear up several queens and only keep the blackest ones

Sounds a smart class. I would add, the blackest ones producing black drones...

 

@David Yanke

might have time to offer a comment.

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19 minutes ago, Dave Black said:

Sounds a smart class. I would add, the blackest ones producing black drones...

 

So keep them in a nuc until they start making drones and see the colour of them. Yeah that would work. Could easily make half a dozen 5 frame nucs. Wonder if we could make a mini mating nucs. Do they produce many drones in mini mating nucs? 

Hopefully we get a good harvest of honey this year as the kids are going to do one of the new Agribusiness units in Year 13 next year, marketing a product. They can sell the school honey. Maybe marketing queens as well.

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Not a mini-nuc no. Your class might think about it and point out that not all of the drones you see are from the hive you're looking at, but we should keep it simple.

 

If we were being pedantic, you are Rearing and Selecting queens, rather than Breeding.

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Any hybrids between Italians and carniolan's have the potential for very uncertain temperament which would worry me if I was keeping them in a school situation. Generally the F1 hybrids are not as bad so if you can't afford pure mated Queen's then perhaps you should look at getting cells from a good breeder. If you want to raise your own then use the purest and quietest hive you have

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9 minutes ago, john berry said:

Any hybrids between Italians and carniolan's have the potential for very uncertain temperament which would worry me if I was keeping them in a school situation. Generally the F1 hybrids are not as bad so if you can't afford pure mated Queen's then perhaps you should look at getting cells from a good breeder. If you want to raise your own then use the purest and quietest hive you have

 

I am a wuss so will requeen at first sign of trouble. And far too keen on working hives wearing just a veil.

 

 

Edited by Markypoo
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4 hours ago, Markypoo said:

Hopefully we get a good harvest of honey this year as the kids are going to do one of the new Agribusiness units in Year 13 next year, marketing a product. They can sell the school honey. Maybe marketing queens as well.

hmm, sort out selling that honey with demand exceeding supply and you could end up extracting honey and buying it from local hobbyists who have extra supers of honey and no idea what to do with it ;)

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1 hour ago, Markypoo said:

There is no real goals in mind. As I said I am impressed that on sunny days, even at a high of 9 degrees, we can see carniolans flying about.  T

 

Sunny days at 9 degrees there won’t be any nectar to collect so those bees are just going to consume more stores because they are active .

 

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37 minutes ago, frazzledfozzle said:

 

Sunny days at 9 degrees there won’t be any nectar to collect so those bees are just going to consume more stores because they are active .

 

Funny you say that Frazzle but today I found nectar in lots of Hives and some sites where all the hives have gained weight over the month
All it could possibly be is Spanish Heather which is in very strong Flower but it doesn't seem right

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8 hours ago, Philbee said:

Funny you say that Frazzle but today I found nectar in lots of Hives and some sites where all the hives have gained weight over the month
All it could possibly be is Spanish Heather which is in very strong Flower but it doesn't seem right

I think these days we have to learn to expect the unexpected.

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10 hours ago, frazzledfozzle said:

 

Sunny days at 9 degrees there won’t be any nectar to collect so those bees are just going to consume more stores because they are active .

 

production will show if their choices pay off.  certainly wouldn't select for who takes off in the crappiest weather.

rather wouldn't select for color neither, but i won't go there.......

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10 hours ago, Philbee said:

Funny you say that Frazzle but today I found nectar in lots of Hives and some sites where all the hives have gained weight over the month
All it could possibly be is Spanish Heather which is in very strong Flower but it doesn't seem right

The Spanish Heath in South Waikato and BOP has the heaviest flower set I’ve seen in the past 6 years. Lots of fresh nectar in my hives that are within foraging range of it.

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1 hour ago, dansar said:

The Spanish Heath in South Waikato and BOP has the heaviest flower set I’ve seen in the past 6 years. Lots of fresh nectar in my hives that are within foraging range of it.

Imagine if this was an early indication of the season ahead?

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1 hour ago, dansar said:

The Spanish Heath in South Waikato and BOP has the heaviest flower set I’ve seen in the past 6 years. Lots of fresh nectar in my hives that are within foraging range of it.

It will be interesting to see how the hot summer effects the flowering in plants that develop next season's flowering wood over the previous summer .

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14 hours ago, frazzledfozzle said:

 

Sunny days at 9 degrees there won’t be any nectar to collect so those bees are just going to consume more stores because they are active .

 

Terrible trait flying in cooler conditions, better try to breed that out of them!  Fact for the day- Carnica winter on far less stores than Italian type bees.

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