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Jose Thayil

New genetics (legal and illegal importation)

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As we all know our last legal import of bee genetics were the Carniolan. 

 

I have heard about a couple of illegal importation of Caucasian and intermissa genetics lately but don’t know if it’s true or not. There is no way of proving it or disproving it I think. They were reported to assure quality I think. 

 

Does anyone know as a fact or experienced any different bees which may have come from illegal importation recently and if so can anyone share what type and where abouts without causing much issues. 

 

Dont want to cause any problems to anyone. 

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I haven't heard anything but then if I had they would be dancing on the end of a rope. Feel free to send me any information on this is am quite happy to cause problems.

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8 hours ago, Jose Thayil said:

As we all know our last legal import of bee genetics were the Carniolan. 

 

I have heard about a couple of illegal importation of Caucasian and intermissa genetics lately but don’t know if it’s true or not. There is no way of proving it or disproving it I think. They were reported to assure quality I think. 

 

Does anyone know as a fact or experienced any different bees which may have come from illegal importation recently and if so can anyone share what type and where abouts without causing much issues. 

 

Dont want to cause any problems to anyone. 

?

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16 hours ago, Jose Thayil said:

As we all know our last legal import of bee genetics were the Carniolan. 

 

I have heard about a couple of illegal importation of Caucasian and intermissa genetics lately but don’t know if it’s true or not. There is no way of proving it or disproving it I think. They were reported to assure quality I think. 

 

Does anyone know as a fact or experienced any different bees which may have come from illegal importation recently and if so can anyone share what type and where abouts without causing much issues. 

 

Dont want to cause any problems to anyone. 

Let us know how long it took MPI to respond to this post.
Given the current Bio security environment Id say they will be in contact by lunch time. (about now)

 

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Ring the bio security 0800 hotline if you have any facts. They have a response time of 1/2 hour 

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Well as I have mentioned in the post these incidents were reported to them but do not know what has happened after that. 

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if this is true then i hope the culprits are jailed in maximum security and never see the light of day.

scum pieces of dirt. Just as bad as the m bovis villain who deserves the same treatment.

 

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On 17/06/2018 at 7:24 PM, Jose Thayil said:

As we all know our last legal import of bee genetics were the Carniolan. 

 

I have heard about a couple of illegal importation of Caucasian and intermissa genetics lately but don’t know if it’s true or not. There is no way of proving it or disproving it I think. They were reported to assure quality I think. 

  

Does anyone know as a fact or experienced any different bees which may have come from illegal importation recently and if so can anyone share what type and where abouts without causing much issues. 

 

Dont want to cause any problems to anyone. 

I haven't heard of anything lately, except a crazy tale of varroa proof bees originating from a long lost population of 'Eastern European Honey Bees'(Caucasian) found  in a hidden valley on the South Island somewhere, being offered for sale for eye-watering sums of money.  I questioned the person about their claims, and told them that I didn't believe that Caucasians had ever been brought into NZ legally, so where did they think this population came from.

Something  much more serious happened almost 10 years ago, when a Buckfast Breeder in Europe called me and said alarm bells rang for him when a Kiwi beekeeper tried to get Queens off of him and said they were to be sent to NZ. That beekeeper told him it was legal to do so, but the breeder thought he would call me to see if that was true.  I called Assure Quality with the information, and the name of the person I suspected of being involved.  I assume no evidence of illegal activity was found, but amazingly, a few years later, the first suspected cases of Nosema cerana were found, and where they were found didn't surprise me.  It just made me think, 'You Bast**d!' 

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50 minutes ago, David Yanke said:

haven't heard of anything lately, except a crazy tale of varroa proof bees originating from a long lost population of 'Eastern European Honey Bees'(Caucasian) found  in a hidden valley on the South Island

Is that the same valley where the moose live .?

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On 18/06/2018 at 8:57 PM, David Yanke said:

I haven't heard of anything lately, except a crazy tale of varroa proof bees originating from a long lost population of 'Eastern European Honey Bees'(Caucasian) found  in a hidden valley on the South Island somewhere, being offered for sale for eye-watering sums of money.  I questioned the person about their claims, and told them that I didn't believe that Caucasians had ever been brought into NZ legally, so where did they think this population came from.

Something  much more serious happened almost 10 years ago, when a Buckfast Breeder in Europe called me and said alarm bells rang for him when a Kiwi beekeeper tried to get Queens off of him and said they were to be sent to NZ. That beekeeper told him it was legal to do so, but the breeder thought he would call me to see if that was true.  I called Assure Quality with the information, and the name of the person I suspected of being involved.  I assume no evidence of illegal activity was found, but amazingly, a few years later, the first suspected cases of Nosema cerana were found, and where they were found didn't surprise me.  It just made me think, 'You Bast**d!' 

Caucasian bees were imported legally in 1935  according to this
https://paperspast.natlib.govt.nz/newspapers/CHP19350211.2.24?phrase=0&query=bees++caucasian

And in 1906 by the government apiarist Mr Hopkins
https://paperspast.natlib.govt.nz/newspapers/NZH19060505.2.79?page=2&phrase=0&query=bees++caucasian

 

 

And that's all  I can be bothered looking up at the moment. Of course it doesn't mean they set up home in a remote valley anywhere but they were imported.

 

 

 

 

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I actually think varroa was brought here by someone illegally bringing in a queen bee / bees from offshore.

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2 hours ago, frazzledfozzle said:

I actually think varroa was brought here by someone illegally bringing in a queen bee / bees from offshore.

We will just never know for certain. At the time, suspicion fell on a group of Russian Beekeepers operating in the South Auckland area at the time. As well, we had heard of threats from American Queen and Package guys.  They believed that if we(NZ and Oz) didn't supply Queens and Packages to Canada then the Canadians would have to re-open the border, so they blamed us for the devastating effect the border closure had on their business, and threats were made.  Ground zero was near the AKL airport which is in south Auckland near the Russians, and it would have been where an American beekeeping terrorist would have jumped off his plane, BUT it was also near a Container Port, and that is where I think the answer to how varroa got here lies.   

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Overseas Queens were smuggled into king country Apiaries in the 50s  and probably just about everywhere else.

How do I know? The late Beeks Daughter told me

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On 18/06/2018 at 8:57 PM, David Yanke said:

I haven't heard of anything lately, except a crazy tale of varroa proof bees originating from a long lost population of 'Eastern European Honey Bees'(Caucasian) found  in a hidden valley on the South Island somewhere, being offered for sale for eye-watering sums of money.  I questioned the person about their claims, and told them that I didn't believe that Caucasians had ever been brought into NZ legally, so where did they think this population came from.

Something  much more serious happened almost 10 years ago, when a Buckfast Breeder in Europe called me and said alarm bells rang for him when a Kiwi beekeeper tried to get Queens off of him and said they were to be sent to NZ. That beekeeper told him it was legal to do so, but the breeder thought he would call me to see if that was true.  I called Assure Quality with the information, and the name of the person I suspected of being involved.  I assume no evidence of illegal activity was found, but amazingly, a few years later, the first suspected cases of Nosema cerana were found, and where they were found didn't surprise me.  It just made me think, 'You Bast**d!' 

while i agree that any illegal importer of bees should be hit with the max of what the law has to offer, i feel that you are the last person to point the finger. if there was an illegal import of buckfast, the risk this ####### exposed our bees to was no more ( probably far less) than the risk you took on behalf of all nz when you imported legally carni seamen from multiple sources on multiple occasions.

please note, i don't question your moral right or your motives for the importation. but i find your attempt to create a mysterious scapegoat for nosema cerana rather desperate.

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46 minutes ago, tom sayn said:

while i agree that any illegal importer of bees should be hit with the max of what the law has to offer, i feel that you are the last person to point the finger. if there was an illegal import of buckfast, the risk this ####### exposed our bees to was no more ( probably far less) than the risk you took on behalf of all nz when you imported legally carni seamen from multiple sources on multiple occasions.

please note, i don't question your moral right or your motives for the importation. but i find your attempt to create a mysterious scapegoat for nosema cerana rather desperate.

"The Lady doth protest too much, methinks", a quote from Shakespeare which I think is relevant here. 

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referring to yourself, are you or what?

if you have to say something, say it. or are you scared of clear speech? not like you.

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19 minutes ago, tom sayn said:

referring to yourself, are you or what?

if you have to say something, say it. or are you scared of clear speech? not like you.

Was referring to you. I was not scapegoating with my Buckfast story, just sharing something that was relevant to this thread. I am proud of the efforts I have put into stock improvement over the years including the semen importations from both Australia and Europe.  They were done carefully, and legally, and for you to equate the risk of those importations with the risk posed by an illegal live bee importation says a lot about your credibility. Stick to the facts, stop throwing baseless insults my way.

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Everybody including David knows what I think of his importations but he didn't do it illegally and  at least he attempted to not bring any nastys with them. Bringing in queens illegally is a whole different thing. It has certainly been done in the past and its general knowledge that chalk brood came in with the illegal importation of Caucasian bees. I could name the beekeeper involved but couldn't prove it in a court of law. How varoa got here I don't know but as I've said before if it had come in on bees we should have got European fell brood and tracheal mite at the same time.
It's way past time someone was made an example of if there has indeed been illegal importations.

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49 minutes ago, john berry said:

Everybody including David knows what I think of his importations but he didn't do it illegally and  at least he attempted to not bring any nastys with them. Bringing in queens illegally is a whole different thing. It has certainly been done in the past and its general knowledge that chalk brood came in with the illegal importation of Caucasian bees. I could name the beekeeper involved but couldn't prove it in a court of law. How varoa got here I don't know but as I've said before if it had come in on bees we should have got European fell brood and tracheal mite at the same time.
It's way past time someone was made an example of if there has indeed been illegal importations.

The culprits would need to bee intercepted at the border because no amount of circumstantial or even DNA evidence will get a conviction otherwise.

Edited by Philbee

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3 hours ago, David Yanke said:

for you to equate the risk of those importations with the risk posed by an illegal live bee importation says a lot about your credibility. Stick to the facts, stop throwing baseless insults my way. 

same to you, David

3 hours ago, David Yanke said:

They were done carefully,

hardly if there wasn't done a virus scan on the imported semen

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17 minutes ago, tom sayn said:

 

same to you, David

hardly if there wasn't done a virus scan on the imported semen

You can't stop can You.  You know a virus scan was not required.  The Import Health Standard did not require this, and came to that decision  after a research review and consulting Dr. Brenda Ball whose advice was that semen was not a viable vector for viruses. For you use the lack of a virus scan to imply a lack of duty of care, is as usual, baseless.

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i'll let you have the last word then, shell i?

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1 minute ago, tom sayn said:

i'll let you have the last word then, shell i?

You could always say we know better now.

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And herein lies the problem with the Bee Industry. The Deer industry had their annual conference a few weeks ago. 200 people attended, and every week now we are bombarded with information about how to improve our operation from other farmers happy to divulge their secrets. Mean while in Bee Ville the conference will attract several thousand participants, none of who will tell you their secrets  and castigate you for being up front and honest and generally pound you into the ground for daring to come out from under your mushroom.

 

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Tonite on the email ... another invite from the P2P  Deer program ..... pasture to plate ... to visit a property in Ashburton next week .  When was the last time we got an invite to visit a bee operation and commune ...?   About two years ago. 

Edited by jamesc

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