Varroa resistance to Oxalic

[Philbee 4,675]

20 minutes ago, kaihoka said:

@Christi An the reason I am interested in OA in wax is because I am going to make some wax food wraps with my wax.

I had only foundation frames at the beginning of the  honey season and they went on after the Apivar was taken out .

All the wax I collected was from the scrape and strain honey frames.

So except for the OA the wax should be chemical free.

These wax wraps seem to be very popular

[yesbut 6,230]

6 hours ago, yesbut said:

A despicable way of referring to fellow humans.

I can't believe you lot who have given this a "funny". I'm serious. The attitude is the root of a heck of a lot of trouble in the world.

[Sailabee 1,102]

@kaihoka, as the oxalic acid is water soluble, if you wash the crushed wax in water you will be sure there is none in it.

Edited June 4, 2018 by Sailabee
spelling.

[Philbee 4,675]

10 minutes ago, yesbut said:

I can't believe you lot who have given this a "funny". I'm serious. The attitude is the root of a heck of a lot of trouble in the world.

Example please, or is the issue really just confined to your mind?

[yesbut 6,230]

5 minutes ago, Philbee said:

Example please, or is the issue really just confined to your mind?

 

Going by the reactions it must be just me.

 

 

[Philbee 4,675]

16 minutes ago, yesbut said:

 

Going by the reactions it must be just me.

 

 

I always thought that the Term "Grunt" was a derogatory, demeaning term used to describe canon fodder but it's not

Term of affection for that tired, filthy, thirsty, hungry, footsore, ripped-trouser, camouflage-painted, lean, mean, son a b*itch who has kept the wolf away from the door for over two hundred years.

[kaihoka 2,975]

38 minutes ago, Sailabee said:

@kaihoka, as the oxalic acid is water soluble, if you wash the crushed wax in water you will be sure there is none in it.

Thanks.

I melted the wax in water then took the slab off when it was cold.

I posted a link on the forum to an  Aussie article about a coming shortage of uncontaminated bees wax  for things like food wraps and skin creams.

[kaihoka 2,975]

53 minutes ago, Philbee said:

These wax wraps seem to be very popular

Yes.

I never use plastic to store food , just bowls and plates for lids .

But the wraps will be better than plates.

an Aussie  article I read talked about a never ending demand for bees wax for wraps and skin creams.

And how Aussie beeks can capitalise on being varroa free and having chemical free wax.

I could see a very profitable side line for the Aussie beek  producing wax.

[Christi An 243]

2 hours ago, kaihoka said:

@Christi An the reason I am interested in OA in wax is because I am going to make some wax food wraps with my wax.

I had only foundation frames at the beginning of the  honey season and they went on after the Apivar was taken out .

All the wax I collected was from the scrape and strain honey frames.

So except for the OA the wax should be chemical free.

 

From my experience in this case i can give you ease of mind...

 

For Years many beekeepers have been using OA as the standard winter treatment (getting rid of 90% of the mites to make sure you do not have to treat until the honey supers have come off - no treatment in Spring was allowed - over cautious as always)

 

Also due to the fact that most of them use wax foundation, laboratory tests of residues in the wax are very common (you should not buy wax without one of those in europe)

 

Years after "Perizin" (coumaphos) is not used anymore traces of it can still be found in many lots of beeswax. Formic lactic and oxalic acid are not found.

 

also oxalic acid is a naturally occuring ingredient of many foods (also honey in very low concentrations). If you ask me nothing to worry about.

[Philbee 4,675]

1 hour ago, kaihoka said:

Yes.

I never use plastic to store food , just bowls and plates for lids .

But the wraps will be better than plates.

an Aussie  article I read talked about a never ending demand for bees wax for wraps and skin creams.

And how Aussie beeks can capitalise on being varroa free and having chemical free wax.

I could see a very profitable side line for the Aussie beek  producing wax.

One of the reasons I collect Wax and bank it in my shed
None of my wax has been in contact with any treatments other than Organic Acids

Its probably not a biggy but something none the less.

[CraBee 1,748]

35 minutes ago, Christi An said:

For Years many beekeepers have been using OA as the standard winter treatment (getting rid of 90% of the mites to make sure you do not have to treat until the honey supers have come off - no treatment in Spring was allowed - over cautious as always)

 

 

I find that staggering.  If I only treated with OA mid Winter and then went to treat again after the honey season, there would be no honey and all the bees would have died or hives would not be saveable.  From what I can make out NZ is the country with the most densely populated hives in the world and that brings some real challenges with it, particularly in some areas.

 

[Christi An 243]

23 minutes ago, CraBee said:

 

I find that staggering.  If I only treated with OA mid Winter and then went to treat again after the honey season, there would be no honey and all the bees would have died or hives would not be saveable.  From what I can make out NZ is the country with the most densely populated hives in the world and that brings some real challenges with it, particularly in some areas.

 

 

Circumstances are surely different. Big scale broodrearing starts around the end of February (depending on the temperatures) and the honey season is usually over by the end of July. In some rare occasions where late season honeys are collected Varroa indeed is a real problem as treatments would be too late then. Those late hives often are lost. I assume the season here normally lasts longer, due to the warmer climate and there might be no stop in broodrearing during winter?

[john berry 5,636]

We have a much longer breeding season than do most parts of Europe hence our varoa is much worse.
Not sure about varoa sucking bees blood. I'm sure I heard somewhere that scientists now think that the varoa eat another part of the bee.
Australian beeswax does not have  might treatments in it but it does have antibiotics from the treatment of European foul brood. It's not used by every beekeeper but is used by some even in the supposedly European foul brood free areas. I don't know if that makes their wax worse or better than ours
 

[yesbut 6,230]

2 minutes ago, john berry said:

Not sure about varoa sucking bees blood. I'm sure I heard somewhere that scientists now think that the varoa eat another part of the bee.

Fat

[CraBee 1,748]

28 minutes ago, Christi An said:

 

Circumstances are surely different. Big scale broodrearing starts around the end of February (depending on the temperatures) and the honey season is usually over by the end of July. In some rare occasions where late season honeys are collected Varroa indeed is a real problem as treatments would be too late then. Those late hives often are lost. I assume the season here normally lasts longer, due to the warmer climate and there might be no stop in broodrearing during winter?

 

Your season then is five months, ours is six months here.  Without treating in Spring for the most part hives would be dead or irretrievable by late January.  

 

I calculated some bee hive densities - NZ 2.98 hives/sq km, Germany 2.32 hives /sq km, USA 0.26 hives /sq km, Aus 0.06 hives /sq km.

 

 

[kaihoka 2,975]

1 hour ago, Philbee said:

One of the reasons I collect Wax and bank it in my shed
None of my wax has been in contact with any treatments other than Organic Acids

Its probably not a biggy but something none the less.

Well with the way the price of honey is going and the current move away from plastic a shed full of chemical free bees wax could be a good earner .

[Philbee 4,675]

45 minutes ago, kaihoka said:

Well with the way the price of honey is going and the current move away from plastic a shed full of chemical free bees wax could be a good earner .

Trouble is I like the color of it and like to see the stack getting bigger so will probably not sell it.

I also like to make boot Balm out of it 

Also dressed my oilskin in a Wax/ Coconut oil/ linseed oil/ lemongrass dressing

Its to useful to sell

Edited June 4, 2018 by Philbee

[kaihoka 2,975]

1 hour ago, Philbee said:

Trouble is I like the color of it and like to see the stack getting bigger so will probably not sell it.

I also like to make boot Balm out of it 

Also dressed my oilskin in a Wax/ Coconut oil/ linseed oil/ lemongrass dressing

Its to useful to sell

You must have kilos of the stuff by now .

Do you realise you have outed yourself  on the forum as the go to survival  guy.

When society goes pear shaped all the city beeks are going to be heading to yours .

 

[yesbut 6,230]

2 minutes ago, kaihoka said:

When society goes pear shaped all the city beeks are going to be heading to yours .

 

And what do you think he keeps his arsenal for ?

[Philbee 4,675]

8 minutes ago, yesbut said:

And what do you think he keeps his arsenal for ?

No gun owner can afford to think like that.

If things go pear shaped my freezer will always be full
The second  best home defense is a bad as Dog

best is two or more

Edited June 4, 2018 by Philbee

[nikki watts 905]

On 4/06/2018 at 10:53 AM, Lindaloo26 said:

 

Do you think it possible that ingested oxalic (via dribble) could end up in the bees blood, then as the mite drinks the blood they die? 

That’s how the dribble was explained to me, the oxalic poisons the blood much like spot on on a dog. Note this was a beekeeper opionion and not scientific info. 

Edited June 4, 2018 by nikki watts
Spelling

[Philbee 4,675]

1 hour ago, nikki watts said:

That’s how the dribble was explained to me, the oxalic poisons the blood much like spot on on a dog. Note this was a beekeeper opionion and not scientific info. 

It is probably safe to say that OA taken internally by a Bee is detrimental to the Bee, so any application of OA that stimulated extensive grooming may well be detrimental.
Its possible that when a Bee Grooms itself or another Bee, the urge to be hygienic overrides any inclination for self preservation, similar to a Bee that stings an intruder.
However, considering a Scientific recommendation that  I have received, bees actively avoid ingesting OA/GL 

So if a Bee uses its mandibles to remove a Paper or Poly fiber strip it probably is able to limit it's ingestion of the Acid crystals.

One of the really noticeable aspects of an Autumn/winter Hive treated with slow release Paper Tape Staples is a conspicuous lack of dead Bees at the entrance
Even Hives on concrete appear remarkably clean in this regard.
By observing this aspect and by hefting the hive are  my two typical tests of non intrusive winter Hive checks.

 

This Post contains the contradiction of bees acting hygienically with no regard for consequence yet preferring to avoid OA/GL
The rational may be related to severity or concentrations of the contaminant within the Hive
 

Edited June 5, 2018 by Philbee

[Rewi1973 43]

23 hours ago, Philbee said:

I always thought that the Term "Grunt" was a derogatory, demeaning term used to describe canon fodder but it's not

Term of affection for that tired, filthy, thirsty, hungry, footsore, ripped-trouser, camouflage-painted, lean, mean, son a b*itch who has kept the wolf away from the door for over two hundred years.

 

@Philbee, is that quote from Mike Ledingham’s book?

[Gino de Graaf 1,030]

4 hours ago, Philbee said:

bees actively avoid ingesting OA/GL 

 

Read that Mr Randy trialed some OA/Glycerine dribble.  No sugar syrup, with good observable effect. 

[Gino de Graaf 1,030]

I reckon bees ingest ox in small amounts which ever method - though the vapouring I have no idea.  I guess they inhale the crystals.